Starter died(?)

Well my '82 Maxim XJ750 decided it no longer wanted to start. I think the starter may have gone on it but I'll post what i know about happened here and hopefully you guys can confirm or deny it for me.

Bike was struggling to start. I could tell from dim lights that the battery was low on power, i have been having problems with the battery holding a charge.

At first i had compression, engine was trying to turn over. Then that stopped and i heard a grinding sound. Not sure what that was i stopped for a moment, then hit the start again to see if it would come back. Same thing happens, it starts to try to turn over then that stops and i hear a grinding noise, then nothing but a tick tick tick tick.

I took the battery out and had it on a trickle charge over night. Put it back in the bike and now nothing but the tick tick tick when i hit the start.

Any suggestions on what i should look at or am i on the money about it being the starter? If it is the starter could you point in the right direction of buying parts and any guide that might help in the repair. I do have a Haynes manual

Side note: the next day while the battery was out and i was at work, to add insult to injury, my girlfirend decided she needed to move my bike and knocked it over breaking the turn signal and the battery cover (battery cover wasn't screwed in since i had the battery out with plans to put it right back in). Turn signal not such a big deal, but does anyone know where i could locate a new battery covery? In the mean time it is duct taped back together.

As always, thanks everyone for any help.

 

Sounds like the battery is dead. Old batteries (or defective new batteries----it happens) might TAKE a charge but won't HOLD a charge (they have no "storage capacity"). The grinding sound is most properly the starter clutch trying to engage and "skipping" due to a weak battery.

You can test the battery by jumpering the battery (to a car battery, etc.) and see if things work correctly. Or you can hook up jumper cables directly to the starter motor (starter case = ground, the little stud sticking out of the side = positive, BIKE IN NEUTRAL first or you can end up with a lot bigger of a problem than a bad starter motor!

 

Alright. I'll pick up a new battery and rule that out first, since i determined awhile ago i was going to need one anyway.

I'll check back in after i do that. Hopefully i can find one this weekend.

 

Any suggestions on the broken side panel/battery cover chacal?

 

Lots of prayers and money should do the trick.........

 

LOL i was afraid you would say that. I told her that was the only part she broke that really made me mad because it would be hard to find.

 

eBay .... or any cycle salvage yards close to you?

 

I've looked on EBay with no luck. Not sure of any salvage yards near by but i'll have to look in to that.

 

Keep on eBay changes everyday. My neck of the woods try Cycle-Re-cycle part 2 317-634-7550 they have so much it is filled with used parts. Wisconsin Cycle Salvage is another place to try, they have an online store. Update I went on eBay there are a ton of side covers for the MAXIM when you do search put in Yamaha maxim side cover . not sure what you were looking under for the right side cover found between 20 to 60 dollars. cheers

 

Nice I'll look again. All I was see were left side covers and I need a right one. Preferably without the wording since my current ones don't have it. But if I can find a pair with id take em

 

So new battery is in an problem continues. But i was mistaken before when I described a tick tick tick. It's a single tick coming from the TCI but that is it.

Swapped out fuses (upgraded to blades last year). Still same issue.

 

Here is the left one I currently have looks like. If you happen upon the marching right one in your brief searches let me know.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/291387259724

I messaged the seller of this one to see if he has a right side one

 

Go to ebay under search put in yamaha maxim right side cover...there were 4 when i looked last.

 

The TCI has no moving parts, so can't be ticking. You're hearing a relay. If it's from near the TCI then that's the side stand relay whch should not do anything until the sidestand is put up. The safety relay will click as soon as the key is turned on, but that's under the fuel tank (no colored dot at the connector). Check the relay below the TCI for a blue dot near the connector. If it does not have a blue dot, then it's not a sidestand relay.

 

Thanks. I will check on that in the morning.

 

Thanks. Did that but don't see one that is the right one for my 750

 

So finally had some time to really stick my head in there and I'm pretty sure the tick i hear is the solenoid (wrong side I know ). I happen to have a brand new one laying around i bought and never put in so I slapped that in. Same issue.

Pic attached of what I see near the TCI. But thoughts on next debugging steps?

 

The solenoid should only click the once (when you hit the starter button). If it's clicking more than that then I'd suspect that the solenoid is faulty.
Short across the two large terminals on the solenoid with a coin or screwdriver. What happens?

 

Yeah it is only ticking the once.

I'll head back out and try the short when/if the rain stops so I can pull the rain cover back off the bike again.

 

Ok shorted across and nothing.

Still just the tick of the solenoid.

 

Resting batery voltage? What does it drop to when you thumb the starter?

 

Key off = 12.42
Key on = 12.02
Hitting start = 12.15

 

Pull the starter and rebuild.

 

Bought the rebuild kit. Brushes were so war down they weren't making contact any more.

Anyway, after putting t all back together with new brushes etc. I hear the starter just whirrr.

Any ideas or should I just say forget it and spend the money on a new/refurbed one?

 

Did you get the reduction gears in right? And did you put grease on the gears? Worst case was your starter clutch slipping before you pulled starter?

 

Everything seemed to be spinning when I tested after reassembly. Yes cleaned and then regreased the gears.

I did hear what sounded like grinding gears a couple times when starting it before it quit altogether.

 

Check that the brushes are oriented correctly. There are some assemblies being sold that position the brushes incorrectly and cause the starter to turn backwards. Verify the positive brush is 90 degrees from the alignment notch as noted below:

Courtesy of tskaz: http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/replacing-your-starter-motor-brushes-w-pics.45727/

 

If the brushes are clocked correctly, and you wtill only hear whirr and box of rocks, then you've got a starter clutch that's slipping.

First step is to make sure you're using a JASO MA certified (or compliant) oil.

 

New one looks right to me. is there a way I can confirm if it is spinning backwards?

 

I used yamalube brand oil when I did the last oil change.

 

OK, next step.

With the starter off the bike, spray carb cleaner through the hole, and toward the front of the engine to maybe clean out any built up gunk or remove residue of any "extra slippery" oil. Reinstall th starter. If no improvement move to step 3.

Step 3: Check your resting battery voltage. Also remove and clean all the wiring betwen the battery and the starter, including the ground straps to the engine case.

If no improvement move to step 4.

Step 4: Cursing and crying.

The starter clutch needs to be rebuilt. The cases have to be split to rebuild it. Replace the alternator chain guide at the same time. The procss is wll documnted here. The Yamaha Facroty Service manual, AND the Haynes Service manual are manditory tools for the procedure.

 

The brush assembly does look correct. However, we did have a member who recently just cleaned his starter and managed to clock the brushes incorrectly, so make sure that alignment notch is aligned with the tab on the main body of the starter.

When looking at the rear of the starter it should spin CCW.

I am guessing (and hoping) this means before you rebuilt the starter, so a fresh rebuilt starter has a good chance of curing this.

 

And I'm running again!

Turned out I'm an idiot lol

Apparently when I reassembled I put everything back into the housing upside down :-/. Explains why it didn't go back together easy the first time.

Switched it all around and voila. Bike starts again. Next time I have a big cup of coffee or something before I do this. Good thing I took before pics. How I realized it was wrong.

 

Maybe I'm off base with this, and/or you already found and solved the problem, but your mention of a grinding sound makes me think of the starter motor. Those exact symptoms are what led me to the starter motor issue on my bike, not a battery or solenoid. To be sure I disconnected the wires leading to it, removed the two long screws that mount it to the motor, and slid it out. I turned the gear by hand and reproduced the same grinding noise I had heard while trying to start the bike, so I knew I found it. After that it was a job of disassembling it and replacing some parts. There is a tutorial on here from another member who did this same work and took lots of photos.