fed up with this bike

Yep, Itend to concure with the jets being mixed up theory.

I've seen this before and it does similar stuff.

Did you do the clunk test?

How about compression, do they feel strong?

 

none of the jets are mixed up, I made sure and put them all back where they belong. both air jets, and both fuel jets, in all 4 carbs. If they were mixed up then it wouldnt have ran the 85 miles it did bringing it home right?

Yes I did the clunk test, and polished the pistons and bore. Clunk tested fine. Compression is fine, I dont have a gauge but I can feel it pretty strong.

Since the plugs are wet when it tries to start, it seems to me like I need a little bit more spark to fire the gas. propane and ether fires, but gas dont. Sounds like the only thing it can be to me is weak spark, Im new and just learning but that is what makes sense to me. Tell me if I am wrong.

I am about to go measure the resistance on the coils, as soon as I find my daaamm MultiMeter.

 

Very possibly weak spark.
But you need to investigate why the Plugs are wet.
Wet means too much gas is getting in there.

Examine the Enrichment Valves for not seating closed.
Be absolutely certain that you haven't swapped Jets.

Hitachi Carbs have the same "Looking" Jets for Main and Pilot.
If they're swapped ... the Pilot System will Flood.

12 Volts?
Just because the Battery Meters 12 V doesn't mean its Charged!
A Smoke Detector Battery will Meter 9.5 V and it's still a weak charge because you need AMPS to run the Bike.

You need to pull the battery.
Charge it with a automatic style automotive charger ... nit a trickle charger.
Bring it in someplace and see what it has for Cranking Current.
AutoZone does it around here.
Any good Auto Shop will have the Battery Breakdown tester.

I hate to make you do it ... but, you got to Pull those Carbs and check the Jets. They're sizes are stamped on the top.
Find-out what size Jets you are running in there.

Get those Drain Screws loose.
It's important to be able to Open the Drains a bit and measure the Float Level.

Get your Battery a DEEP Charge and see what happens.
That, quite possibly ... is the problem.

But, you need to get all the Ducks in a Row.
Battery checked.
Jets Checked.
Drain Screws loose.
Float Heights Set.

There are too many Booby-traps you are allowing to mess you up.
You have to cover all the spaces.
One thing not right and you aren't going to be happy casuse it won't start or it will run poorly.

Like I said ... I'm sorry you are so far away. I'd like to be able to drop by and give you a hand getting your bike done and on the road.

I'm hoping a Wrencher or a Tuner who lives near you will feel your pain and do what I am not able to do. Make a house-call and put you back on the tracks.

In the mean time ...
I'll do what I can, like this, and hope the Motorcycle Gods will be kind to you and you get it all straightened-out!

Send me a PM with your Home Town and I'll see if there's anyone from another Forum up there near you that I'm holding a marker for!

 

I didn't know you rode it home.
The jets are right ... unless you mixed 'em when you cleaned the carbs.

 

yeah jets are right. I have a #110 main jet on the longer post, and a #40 pilot jet on the smaller post. I made sure of it, double checked, they are correct. And air jets (under the rubber diaphram) are opposite the fuel jets (small hole to big hole, big hole to small hole) the main air jet is size #50 and the pilot air jet is size #195

the bigger the the number the bigger the hole.

I know what I'm doing in that department.

 

You know, I had a problem where I had 3 cylinders quit firing and the plugs were wet. Turns out they were essentially shorted by the wetness.

I sprayed each plug with a shot of ether. Reinstalled and it fired right up and has been fine for over 3K miles.

I assume the ether on them burned off the fouling that was shorting them. I'd think your starting it on ether would accomplish the same thing, but maybe not. You might want to try the ether rinse, or even just replace them to be sure.

Or, maybe you're super rich and fouling them right out again.

 

I have an idea that the Fuel Fouling is the root cause now.

Is there a chance that the Main AIR Metering Ports on your Emulsion Tubes are clogged?

Did you pop those Tubes out of there? If those Ports are fouled, the stream from the Main FUEL Jet is NOT atomized and it will serve to make the Plugs Wet and foul them.

 

yep, pulled the emulsion tubes, got them super clean and seen light through all the ports.

 

measured resistance on the coils: 588 ohms and 610 ohms which is the low end of the range.

 

When you reinstalled the emulsion tubes, Did you get them in all the way. They should hit the copper washer that goes between the the main jet and the housing. I installed one of mine wrong once and it drove me nuts trying to find out what was wrong. Basicall I was flooding the bike out. Ran for a few seconds then would die out slowly.
The wet plugs could also be a strong possibility. I ran too much seafoam through my tank and fouled the plugs. Seafom is a good thing. Too much seafoam can lead to problems. Cleaned the plugs up changed the fuel out and she pured like a kitten.
One more option, Are the plugs correct and correctly gapped. Just a thought.

 

Take the Battery out of the Car.
Hook it up to the Bike.
Use that Cranking Power to see if this Bike is going to run for you.
If it does ... we know you have a weak Battery and that thing has to go.

If not ...
Pull the Carbs and send them to me.
I'll get the Drain Plugs loosened and set the Float Levels for you.
This Thread is 8 Pages long and we don't have this Bike running yet!

If you want ... just send me the Bowls and I'll do the Drain Screws.
If they have to be drilled-out ... you can order some Stainless ones and forget about having to have them stuck and useless.

 

I already have been starting the bike with the car battery, Its out of a car, in a 5 gallon bucket. The starter cranks with full power, full speed (alot faster than my bike battery alone) Still no fire. I'll PM you about shipping the carbs.

 

Energi2er, where exactly in the PNW are you. Rickomatic posted a help wanted S.O.S. for you. I am in Eugene, Oregon and may be able to offer a bit of assistance. On my 1982 Seca, I recently ran into a spat of bad running. Turns out that I had a bit of dirt/gunk/crap that had built up in the #4 carb, above the float needle and I believe it was causing a bit of fuel starvation. I also checked the emulsion tube installed height and the #3 was having problems from improper install on that. It might not hurt to trim about 1/4" off each plug wire end and try to get better contact that way. New plug caps would be in order as well. That is my next step (tomorrow in fact). Lastly, make sure you have a good full charge on that battery. You may not be doing your rectifier or alternator much good overcooking it with the amperage from the car battery too. Hope we can get this one revived. I had a 1982 Virago with similar problems, needed to have the alteernator rewound, cost about $160 then, you can get replacements off the 'bay for cheaper I imagine now, but this was back in '91, no eBay or internet for me then. cruzerjd

 

Im in Olympia washington area

 

cruzerjd's comments are good ones.

I don't trim the ends much. I strip a piece of wire and twist it up tight. Then, I work it in the end of the Spark Plug Wire as far as it will go. Once it's up in there good and tight; I trim the exposed end off and screw the Plug Cap back on.

The "Extension" helps make good, solid contact and gives the Plug Cap a good, solid "Bite" on the end of the Wire.

We don't have any idea where the Float Heights are on the case. I might have him Pull the Bowls and send them to me if they are all hopelessly stuck and need to be drilled and extracted.

I'm hoping that there is a talented wrencher and tuner within a "Reasonable" distance that can do a visit and help get Energi2er straightened-out and over the hump so he can get the Bike started and do some Fine-tuning and get that thing out of the Pits and on to the Blacktop ... where it belongs!

 

I just Googled Olympia ...
Holy Crap ...
You must have miles and miles of scenic riding to do up there!

Looks like Rt-101 is a ride to remember!

 

What kind of facilities, tools, etc. do you have, Energi2er?

 

not much, no garage, and the basic wrenches and stuff, thats about it.

What county are you in Gamuru? (theres 2 different Granite Falls, WA)

 

Snohomish... About 100 miles or so (I think) from you.

 

yeah you're up north a good 100.

 

Wow! I just reread this entire thread. You have the patience of Job. Listen, I'm half tempted to hop in my truck with a fist-full of tools and pay you a visit, but I'd really feel better about making the trip if I knew you'd replaced the plugs with some NGK's first. 100+ miles is a long way to go just to discover your plugs are fuel-fouled. I'm not talking about cleaning them with ether, either. I'm talking about receipt-in-hand brand-new BP7ES NGK spark plugs (assuming that's what your bike uses). I've seen way too many "But they looked fine" cases of fuel-fouled spark plugs to chance it.

Do that first. If it doesn't work, then we'll talk.

 

yeah First thing I did (before cleaning the carbs) was replace the plugs, (and then change the oil and filter) Back when it was running good one day and not the next. These plugs have about 10 to 20 miles on them. The old plugs were NGK BP8ES so thats what I have in there now. I read the specs on this bike and it calls for BP7ES but I dont see the difference, After all it did run at one time with these BP8ES plugs.

 

Exactly, "before cleaning the carbs," not after. If it was the dirty carbs that fouled the original plugs, then you still have fouled plugs because you haven't changed them since you rebuilt the carbs. For all we know, the carbs could be spot-on, but as soon as you get a little heat in the engine the plugs foul out and stop firing.

Change the plugs to the correct ones and let's see what happens.

 

I kin zee dat we gots duh Mo-Jo woikin'!
Yass-suh.
Dat dere biag gunna be runnin' juss fine zoon-eh-nuff!

OK.
Now were talking.
Order some new Drain Screws and git demm Float levels rite.
Don't leave a stone unturned!

 

Excellent tip on the plug ends. You may still want to get a set of plug caps though, after 25 years corrosion and buildup could be causing a definate lack of spark. Haven't replaced mine yet, went and took the wife and kids to seey Harry Potter 5 at the cheap seats. cruzerjd

 

You won't see the difference in plugs. But, there is a difference. That a whole heat range.

Find-out what the book says and slap a new set of plugs in her.
You might get a surprise.

 

Ok, got the right plugs, put em in. took a little starting fluid but she fired right up. And she ran the longest that Ive seen in awhile but still slowly died out, and throttle didnt seem to make a difference except full throttle did. She would stay running at full throttle and slowly climbed RPM until redline but then slowly dieing when I relese throttle.

I think we are there... From here I think its just a sync/mixture adjustment. Right?

Oh and after this minute or 2 of running. The "NEW" plugs are dry and bright white.

 

I set my mixture at 2 and 3/4 out on all carbs before I did this, so thats where its at.

 

Now ... all you have to do ... is continue tweaking those Mixture Screws OUT ... about the width of a Nickel ... until the bike is running and Idleing by itself.

It might take a few tweaks ... but, your getting close.

Not in the Ballpark yet ... but, at least you have a ticket!

The width of a Nickel ... Out ... Until she's running on her own!

 

you think the sync is ok, and I dont have to pull the carbs off the bike?

 

Rick, I was hoping you'd be along with some more of that patented Mo-Jo. When it comes to fine-tuning techniques, I'd rather have someone with years more experience than I doling out advice.

 

You need to have access to the front of the carbs to bench sync them.
There's no way to tell unless you put them on the sync tool.

If you get it running and you did do a really good bench sync ... hope for the best and she if she'll run like that.

 

Energi2er, do you have a carb sticks to sync your carbs with? Also, does the bike start up and run for a minute or two still or are you back to just a five- or ten-second run interval?

 

is this with the chock or without ,,,,,,sorry for jumping in but I think it's important,,,,,

 

OK ... if you think you figured-out what was wrong and you have the bike running with open throttles ... you need to adjust the Pilot Mixture Screws until she'll run on her own.

If the plugs were still cleann and white go OUT with the Screws. Once you get the Mixtures so that the bike is running ... tweak the screws out until you hear the bike start to misfire ... then, turn them back in until the cylinder is hitting again.

You'll have to Monitor the burn by eye and ear.
If it backfires when you giv e it throttle ... too lean
If it hesitates and boggs ... too rich.

Check the plugs and don't MISS by letting it run too lean ... if the plugs are Clean ... enrich the mixture.

Just remember ... when you get close ... you dont turn the screws much to get dialed in ... sometimes it only needs to move the width of a dime or a nickel.

 

Ok, I think we can change the title of this thread to "Happy with this bike" This is the post you all have been waiting for.

SHE RUNS!


A little bit of tweaking with the mixture and I got her fired up and Idleing on her own to where I could adjust things and listen to her at the same time. I still need to dial her in, and do a final sync with sticks. But i got her ridable. Damn it feels so good to ride my own bike again.

Thank you all!!

Thank you thank you thank you!!

 

That's awesome! And congratulations.

 

I knew you could do it!

What was the key element? What was gumming-up the works?

 

Well, I had the wrong spark plugs in there for one. And I remember what you told me on the phone to close all the mixture screws except carb 1 and adjust that one with the rest closed. Between that and the right plugs in there, I got it to fire, and was able to adjust it. I am still in the process of dialing in that cylinder so I can match the rest to that one. I will end up with a colortune plug before its over.

But first I have to get a starter relay, (I'm sniping one from ebay now) I am starting the bike now by shorting out the lugs on the relay. They are to worn out in there to make contact. But getting her running was more of a priority than the relay.

Cant thank you guys enough!

 

I knew the answer was in the plugs. (One way or the other)
Congratulations, you can now feel that pride that comes with doing the impossible...... for the average person.

After all you got an XJ Maxim to run...... there are many motorcycle mechanics out there who cant do that!
Now to get her to run right.....
you'll do it!

 

Yes you will!
You're on the path to success.
Good job hanging-tough and not giving up on it. When a bike fails to start ... that's the big hair-puller-outer that gets everybody ready to start selling-off parts in disgust.

Now, you have to become a Tweaker rather than a Troubleshooter.
Tweaker is so much more fun.
Before you know it ... it gets in your blood and you strive for perfection.

Just remember that those Pilot Screws ... once they are really close to being where they need to be for a good-running bike ... are only about the width of a Nickel from being Dialed-IN.

You may have to do a good deal of individual hole tweaking ... depending on the color of the Spark Plug ... but once your IN at the point where the Idle is Smooth and the transition coming off Pilot to Main Jets is there ... you'll have a finely tuned machine to have fun riding.

(I'm writing up "Dialing Yourself IN" ... it's in the First Rough Draft ... should be ready for people around Halloween.)

 

Ok, I adjusted it to where I thought was right, I go for a ride and it lasted quite awhile, then it just died, and It wont start again. I can start it with starting fluid and it will idle again. It still wont start on its own without starting fluid. Is this just adjustment?

When I give a quick rev on the throttle it climbs in RPM and returns to idle speed very slowly and sometimes just stays around 4k and I have to bring it back down to 1500 with the idle screw.

 

Starter jets in the bowls are clogged...............?

 

100 miles? Easy ride. Best get on it, winter is coming quick!

 

When i was running pretty lean, it had a hard time starting w/out starter fluid. Now that the mixture is closer to on, it starts everytime, even cold, w/out fluid. I believe that the falling slowly back to idle is either a symptom of running too lean, idle screw too far open, or an overly hot engine...

 

Until you get a Colortune ...

Adjust the Mixture Screws OUT until the engine starts to balk, cough, flutter or die ... then, take it back IN ... slowly ... until you get the good Idle.

If it WON'T run ... that MIGHT be too Lean.
Do the indexing ...

Bring those Screws OUT ... across the board ... Until it will run on its own.
Then, Peak the Idle on 1
Shut down and determine how far Out the setting is ...
Return the Screw to that spot and do the others to Match.

You had it running OK ... so, you have to be Close.
Tweak them all Out the width of Nickel until you get a steady idle.

The ability to "Listen" to the engine and Tweak is something it takes some time and experience to develop.