Help me start my bike!

I can't get my bike to start.

Last week, when I went to start it up, it would try to 'turn over', but no luck. Now, all that happens is I hear a click. I charged up the battery, and still, just a click. So, I started putzing around, and noticed there was something unattached down by the kick stand (kick stand starter mechanism type thing?) and reattached it. Still no start. I tried starting it with the kick stand up, kick stand down, in neutral, etc.

Spark plugs are good, just changed the oil and that looks fine. Could it be a fuse? Maybe the starter motor is dead? How do I find out?

Please help! Thanks!

 

Have you tried shorting an old screwdriver across the starter solenoid posts to see if the starter cranks? Make sure the bike is in neutral before doing this, though.

 

No I haven't, not exactly sure what you mean by that though....

 

Here's a picture demonstrating the procedure...

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I hope this helps.

 

Thanks, I will try that asap and see what happens.

I'm new at all this and it's hard to work on a bike you know absolutely nothing about.

 

I'm in your same position, mine being my first bike...i had a little experience on small engines though cuz i grew up working on an old VW beetle. What seems like a complicated machine is actually really simple once you demystify it in your mind. If you were trying like mad to get the bike to start by pushing the starter, you might have burned it out. Like they said above though, try the simple stuff first.... i believe when you cross the two bolts, you bypass everything electrical but the actual starter, so if it engages then, then you know at least where to start looking....

good luck

 

OK...

Tried the screwdriver test and nothing...just clicks still. What does that mean? What now?

 

Two likely possibilities:

a. battery needs charging.
b. starter is toast.

You can hook a set of jumper cables to your battery (or use a charger with a boost setting) and try again. If this doesn't work, I'd seriously consider having the starter checked.

 

Yeah I tried jumping the battery several times, and all the lights and everything battery-related work great, so must be the starter. I guess I'll dig into my manual and see what it tells me to do...

Thanks for the help!

 

I had the same thing happen when I went to restart after refueling. I pushed the bike to a carpark and removed the starter, then carefully earthed the starter and hit start while (tightly, it trys to escape) holding the starter.

The starter worked, so I reinstalled it and made the trip home.

Replaced the starter with my (good) spare to be safe.

Seems the starter jammed and removing it was enough to free it up.

Hope this tip saves others from being stranded.

To prove the starter is at fault, remove it from the bike, use a car battery and a set of jumper leads, connect earth to the starter body, then (with a helper holding the starter) touch the positive to the terminal on the starter. It should spin and have a lot of torque.

 

I know I sound like an idiot for saying this, but where/what exactly is the starter motor on my bike? I have a Haynes manual that tells me how to take it all apart, but no clue where the thing actually is.

Any help would be awesome. Thanks.

 

Here's a highlited picture showing the starter location...

This exploded starter view may be of interest to you, too.

 

odd that noone mentioned that he should check to se if the engine was locked up..............

Had the petcock been left in pri and filled the cylinders with gas the engine could hydraulily lock up.

Granted the rings usually never seal that well..........
Maybe it got ran hard and when shut down.....well you know.

Still a free test, by simply putting the bike in a taller gear like 4th and pushing to see if the engine would turn over.

one would know if the engine didn't turn over, dont mess with the starter.

 

Tried putting the bike in a higher gear and starting, still no luck. Will not start with a jump start.

I'd go for the starter motor, but there are only 12,000 miles on the bike, and I am not sure if that would be enough to wear it out (?)

Is there any way to tell if the ignition switch is shot? Or if it's just a fuse? Could the engine be locked up? How do I tell? Any other ideas???

Thanks!

 

Put it 4 gear with the clutch out and take the plugs out it helps a little when your not working with no compression, rock the bike forword while it's in gear the engine should turn over a little.
Check the fuse and make shure the battery is fully charged.
If all this does not work you can take the handel bar cover apart and try jumping the starter botton with a small piece of wire and make shure the key is on and the bike is out of gear(Could get ugly) if you don't.

 

If the bike cranks over but doesn't start, I'd look at ignition, switches, blown fuses, etc. However, if the bike won't crank and you're sure the battery, starter solenoid, and cables/connections are all in good working order, then it's probably the starter. If you don't know how to manually rotate the engine by hand (see Hvnbnd's comment), then you need to pull the starter and see if it will spin outside the bike. Again, it's either 1. the starter is bad or 2. the engine is seized.

 

You are not trying to start the bike with this test. With the bike in gear you push the bike forward. If the back wheel turns then the engine is not locked up, but if the back wheel will not turn then the pistons in the motor are also not moving. If the wheel turns when you push the bike in gear then look to the starter.

You can. Make sure the bike is in nuetral.

Carefully run a battery jumper cable from the positive of the battery (don't let the clip touch the frame) over the seat to the cable attached to the starter (it is under a rubber cover) and touch the jumper to that terminal.

If the starter spins then the fault lies elsewhere (ignition switch, wire loom etc....).

If it fails to spin remove the starter (2x 10 mm bolts and the cable going to the starter need to be removed then the starter motor pulls out) and using a battery and set of jumper leads connect the negative jumper lead to the body of the starter and (getting someone to hold the starter tight or if you do it by yourself being ready for the starter to move with some force) touch the positive lead to the terminal on the starter. If it spins it should be ok but there is still a problem if it won't spin in the bike (starter clutch?) and will need to look further.

 

If your solenoid is getting the 12 volts when you switch the ignition on, your switch isn't bad. Let's look at what you have.
Shorted the solenoid and still clicks.
Jumped the battery with no improvement.
You still haven't told us if you have pulled the starter or not.
Jump the starter motor directly and tell us what happens.
It should spin. If it doesn't, you found your problem.
Rebuild kit is about $90 from Flea-Bay.

 

If it doesn't spin then take the earth jumper and run from the neg terminal on the battery to the body of the starter. Then again, jump the positive side.

If it spins you need to check the earth leads. Particularly the one from the frame to the engine.

 

I think now we are just getting down to process of elimination...

So I tried the "4th gear engine lock up test": bike rocks back and forth, and even got a little murmur out of it when I hit the ignition switch! So does that rule out the engine being locked up or is it still possible?

Then, jumped the starter, and it spins just fine.

Lookin at my Haynes Manual again, it deems possible:

1. Fuse Blown.
2. Ignition switch defective.
3. Starter button switch faulty.
4. Wiring open or shorted.

Now for my questions:

1. Would replacing the fuses under the seat be worthwhile (ignition, lights, and 2 others I'm not sure what they are)? Are there other fuses?
2&3. I have no clue how to tell if the switches are faulty...what's the difference between ignition switch and starter button switch?
4. You got me on that one.

 

UPDATE:

Went out to just look at the fuses, etc on my bike and went to see if just by perchance it would start up after I touched them (I'm being hopeful). I decided to try the solenoid screwdriver test once more, and as soon as I put the screwdriver in, something started making noise/moving around/vibrating...not sure if it was the starter motor/solenoid, or what, but the key wasn't in the bike or anything. What the heck does that mean now?

 

You have to pull the starter and see if the starter will spin outside the bike.

Its a Yes or No situation.

Yes ... we have wiring to shoot.

No. Starter bad.

 

So then why would it make a difference whether the starter is attached to the bike or not? It spins when attached.

 

I wasn't paying attention ... I guess. I thought the starter was the issue. I have to stop playing online poker and pay attention to details .... although, it seems like I've visited every possible topic more than twice, already.

It's all this good weather we've been having; too. I've been riding instead of reading.

But, you got to cut me all kinds of slack ... Summer is a fleeting thing in New England.

 

Understood, which is why I would like to fix this asap...I'd rather take my initiation ride in 60 degree weather than 30.

So what do I do now?

 

From what I surmise from the "Solenoid Test" ... The Battery does not have enough whack to drive the Starter after the contacts in the Solenoid are closed.

How old is the battery?
Will it hold a decent charge?

 

I have been told the battery is a year old but I don't know if that's true (just bought this bike). I guess it would be worth testing...I have a volt meter I can dig out somewhere. But the lights and everything work fine, so I am wary to deem the battery as the culprit.

So we have learned it's not the solenoid, starter, engine not locked up, and probably not the battery... What's next? Fuses and wires I guess?

 

Don't be fooled by Volts. You can get 9.5 Volts out of a Smoke Detector Battery ...

You need to know how many Amps that Battery is capable of supplying!

 

Well how in the heck do I figure that out? Would it be worthwhile to just get a new battery?

 

Did it make a clicking noise like the solenoid or a cranking noise like the engine trying to start?

 

You can take the battery out of the bike.
Charge it up.
Bring it to AutoZone.
Have them to a "Load Test" on it.
The results will be easily determined.

Then, you know if the battery has got the wallop it needs to run the bike.

If its OK ... we have further troubleshooting to do.
If it isn't ... Get a DieHard from Sears!
A good 2-year Battery ... Minumum.

 

A cranking noise like something trying to start up...and a few sparks from the screwdriver.

I will take out the battery and get it tested. Thinking about buying all new fuses too just to see if that does the trick.

 

And that's why we said use an old screwdriver!

The good news is that the bike cranked, so this tells us that the battery has juice enough to turn the engine and the starter sounds like it's in working order. Now, the question is, Why won't it crank when you press the 'Start' button? Looking at my wiring diagram, power flows from the battery to the solenoid. From there, it goes through the 20 amp fuse (marked 'MAIN') to the keyed ignition switch. When the ignition switched is switched to the on position, power then flows through the 10 amp fuse (marked 'IG') to the starter circuit cut-off relay. This relay will become active when either the clutch switch is closed or the neutral switch is closed. Once either of these two conditions are met, power flows to--and through--the starter solenoid to the starter button. Once you press and close the starter button, you've completed the circut for the solenoid. This will allow power to flow from the battery to the starter which cranks the engine.

What you must determine is what part of the above circuit has failed. Keep in mind that it may be one or several parts causing you trouble. Start with the easy stuff. Make sure you have power on both sides of the 20 amp Main fuse and 10 amp ignition fuse. If the 20 amp checks out but the 10 amp doesn't, then it's either the keyed ignition switch or the kill switch. If, however, you have power on both sides of the 10 amp ignition fuse, then look at the all the clutch and neutral safety switches (they both close to ground so make sure the grounds are in good shape). Both should have power going to them. If both of those check out, check yo see if you have power at the starter solenoid on the red/white wire. If you don't, then your starter circuit cut-off relay is probably bad. If you do and the bike still won't crank, then it's either your starter button or the starter solenoid. You can test the solenoid by grounding the blue/white wire coming from the solenoid. If it cranks, then the starter button is bad. If it doesn't, the solenoid is bad.

I know: it's a lot to digest; but that's how you solve this problem. Good luck, and happy hunting!

 

Thanks...definitely going to print out what you said and take a look tomorrow. I'll update when I figure out whats going on.

 

I have had starters go bad where they spin with no load but once a load (like starting the engine is placed on it they just don't have enough torque). Still nothing, try replacing that wire that goes from the starter to the solenoid. You know that thing you touched the screw driver to. That is about all I can thing of. Good luck and let us know what you find. My guess is the battery though!

 

Ok...took the battery off to get it tested today, and noticed the points were REALLY rusty...scraped the rust down, and took it to AutoZone. They did a test on it, and it turned up weak, so it is currently on a charger there.

Aside from that, I noticed that when I stick the key in the ignition, the Neutral light doesn't come on (even though I'm sure the bike is in neutral). Don't know if this means anything... The other lights on that same panel work though (turn signal, headlight, etc.)

Also, this is probably another dumb question, but how do I check to see if the fuses have power to both sides?

 

To check the fuse for voltage on both sides take your voltmeter--set to DC--and connect the negative lead to ground (frame or battery negative). With the positive lead, measure and record the battery voltage (it should be around 12.8 volts for a 100% charged battery). Then check the voltage on one side of a fuse. This should be the same as the battery voltage. If there is no reading then the fuse is bad if you test and find voltage on the other side of that same fuse. If you find no voltage on either side of the fuse, then you have another problem. If you have voltage but noticeably lower than what you measured at the battery, then you have too much resistance in your harness. You will want to clean all connections and check cables for corrosion.

EDIT: Except for the 20 amp MAIN fuse, the key needs to be in the 'ON' position to test fuses.

 

I'm assuming you're saying that the neutral light isn't coming on after you've turned the key to the 'ON' position. The first thing to check is whether the light bulb is any good. If it is good, then check that you have voltage at the socket. You can do this by sticking the positive lead (negative lead grounded) down into the socket and touch the terminal at the bottom-center. There should be voltage there no matter what gear the bike is in. If that checks out, then check the neutral safety switch for voltage on both sides (bike in neutral). If not, then the switch is bad. As a final check, you can ground the wire (Sky-blue in color) coming from the neutral light and the light should come on. If not, there may be a bad connection or a broken wire.

 

I had this happen once, stopped to get gas hit start and nothing just a click. Removed starter (on side of road) and jumped it (earthed the motor body to the frame and hit the start switch), the starter worked. Put it back on bike and the bike started. Something was stuck! Replaced with good starter when I got home just to be sure.

Some times a starter will work OK but when on the bike it won't, but knowing this narrows down what it could be.

It is a case of going through each part one by one and eliminating each.

It is a good idea to go through all the wire loom and check and clean connectons and switches, check alternator brushes etc., anyway (even if the bike is running OK.).

 

Given the age of many of the bikes we own ... particularly those that have been recently acquired by "New Owner's" ... namely -- You!

You should plan on doing some electrical contact cleaning as a Preventative Maintenance measure.

At 10-years the Contacts were beginning to Oxidize. For those in the Seasonal areas, and everyone who experienced the recent, seemingly endless rain, the humidity didn't do you any favors.
At 20-years ... the whole bike is ready for a Cleaning Festival!

The maintenance you should do is relatively easy to perform.
The VITAL Connections should be separated and cleaned.

Here's the Short List of the connections and maintenance you should do.
The Snap-Together Connections for:
Voltage Regulator
TCI (Both)
Starter Solenoid
Ignition Block (Inside the Headlight Bucket)
Instrument Panel and Lighting (Inside the Headlight Bucket)
Ignition Switch (Insert the Plastic Tube of WD-40 inside the Key Slot and shoot the tumblers and switch)

 

All fuses check out.

Working on figuring out where these are in order to test them...

I guess I'll get to that after the clutch and neutral switches... Tried testing the red wire, but I don't think I actually hit wire, just the plastic coating... Will literally have to dig deeper into this one...


Battery checks out OK though. A bit weak when a load is put on it, but should have enough juice to get SOMETHING out of the bike.

Sorry y'all hafta hold my hand through this, it is much appreciated though. I'll buy you all beers if it works.

 

So I'm hopeful that I found the problem...

Looked at the neutral switch, and it was not actually pushed in all the way into the clip it sits in. BUT, when I push it in, bike still won't start, but sounds like it's trying a little harder... I tried testing the volts of the wires, but it's tricky since there is so much plastic coating around the thing.

Any other way to test if this is the problem? Also, can't find where the neutral switch actually is...help with that would be great so I can test that, too.

 

I just finished an interactive wiring diagram of the electric starting circuit that may be of use to you. It's still in concept form, but allows you to manipulate the starting circuit. (Note: wait for all the images to fully load).

 

This is beginning to sound more and more like a problem with the Safety Circuit Relay.

Just for the heck of it ... unplug the Safety Circuit Relay.
Place the Bike IN Neutral
Give it a shot.

Let's see what happens???

(The Safety Circuit Relay on the 750 Max is under the Center Frame Tube ... just ahead of where the Tank Bolts to the Frame.)

Just unplug it for the Start Test and see if she goes.

 

!!!!!!!!!UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So I decided to be adventurous and take the starter motor apart, turns out that was the problem (or part of it). There was nothing but globs of grease holding it together. So I cleaned it out, and replaced the brushes which were really worn down. Starter motor is great now. I put it back in the bike, and now the bike turns over, but STILL won't start. WHAT NOW?????

 

Sounds like we are getting there finally. Glad to hear that you got that portion of the bike figured out. Now that it is cranking over, you will want to check and make sure you are getting spark. Remember the only thing you need to make an engine run is air, fuel, and spark. Obiviously compression and other things too, but narrow down the problem by checking each one of these. Remove a plug and attach it to the wire it came from. Hold it on the engine block and crank that bad boy over. Watch for a small spark in the plug gap on the bottom. WARNING! Keep the plug in contact with the block when you do this or you'll get a lovely shock. If you are getting spark then put the plug back on and torque it properly. You may want to check them all. Never hurts to clean them a bit. I use a light sandpaper between the gap. If you aren't getting a spark you most likely have a wiring problem. Start with the fuse and work out from there. Check connections, swithches, and safteys. If you do get spark, take a propane torch and insert it into the top of the air box under the seat and turn it on (don't light it though). Let it go for a second and then try to start the bike. If it starts and then dies you most likely have a fuel problem. Check to make sure the bowls are getting fuel by loosening the drain screws on the bottom and watch for gas to come out. If it does clean the carbs. If it doesn't, check the hoses and the petcock as well as any filters for blockage. That should pretty much keep you busy for awhile. Ton's of rust in a gas tank can totally block the in tank filter attached to the top of the petcock. Let us know what happens!

 

The thing to do is get it tuned-up right, so that it starts right up when you hit the Go button.

Go through the Crarbs and Set the Float Levels ... do anything you aren't sure about so you know when it was done ... right ... last.

It takes a day to get the Carbs off and cleaned. But, its always worth having a set of Carbs that were last cleaned and tuned ... yesterday ... as opposed to not knowing how they are or look.

Of course, if the bike was running good to begin with ... you night just want to Sync-Up and set the Mixtures ... (which is a fun job all in itself) ... then, you have everything on the money and know for sure the situation with the Carbs is good.

 

I checked all the spark plugs, and I do get spark. I don't own a propane torch, and don't know if it is worth the investment just for this. Is there an alternate way to do it?

Which drain screws would I loosen to check for the fuel? Also, how often should the carbs be cleaned? They were replaced and cleaned a year ago...don't know if that is enough time for them to block up completely. Also, how do I go about checking the hoses for blockage? Do I have to take them all apart?

Thanks for your help! I appreciate it...

 

You can use gasoline in a spray bottle of some sort and shoot in there. If your carbs were cleaned a year ago, I wouldn't think that they would need it again, but you never know. As for cleaning out those hoses, when you go to fill that spray bottle with fuel do it from the motorcycle tank. You'll see the fuel selector there and two ruber hose coming out of it. The smaller is the vacuum line and can stay attached. The larger one is the fuel line. Take it off where it meets the carb with the fuel selector in the off position. Put the end in the bottle and turn it to PR. If gas flows well you don't have a blockage in the line or petcock. If it barely trickles or drips, you many have a blockage or need to rebuild the petcock. You can buy a kit to do that for $35. You may want to drain the gas out of the tank and pull off the petcock (2 screws is all), and check the filter. The drain screws to the carbs are on the very bottom of the float bowls. Most of them are stainless (I Think). You will notice them, because on the two left side carbs they point out and slightly to the front. Then the other two carbs on the right do the same thing. Make sure you have the right sized screw driver to get these out as they can be tough. Spark is good!! Just keep checking things, we will figure it out. I know this might be the dumbest questions ever, but do you know you have gas in the tank, and the is petcock turned to the PR position when starting?

 

If they were cleaned a year ago and havent been used since, you bet they need a clean up.

Be really careful with the carb drain screws, most of the time they are like butter. Mine are definitely NOT stainless. Ask Rick about those little guys!