Fuel treatment

Problem: The bike does not like short jumps. It won't start up at the destination if I just ride a couple of miles. Give it an hour, it fires up like it should.

Suggested solution:Fuel treatment. Half bottle or so full tank of gas, put about 50 highway type (70 mph + no stops) miles on it.

Good idea? Bad idea? Am I insane for even considering it? If it's a bad plan, what would you suggest?

Thanks in advance.
James

 

I should point out, they say the difference between a biker and a guy that rides a bike is the biker can fix his bike. By this definition, I am a guy that rides a bike.

 

You have carb problems and no amount of fuel cleaner or treatment will fix it. You can try to see if it helps but I bet you will have to take the carbs out to clean and sync.
You could try tuning and syncing the carbs on the bike first and maybe some new plugs.

Where in NC are you? I am in the Raleigh area and always willing to visit a fellow XJ member if they are fairly close.

 

Not an expert, but I believe hard starts when warm may also be a symptom of valve's needing adjustment. The valve adjustment should be the first check as it needs to be done before any carb synching, etc. If you can turn a wrench you can do this, believe me, I was hesitant, but it is easy with the step by step instructions: http://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/airhead-valve-adjustment-with-pics.14827/

I've had success with Seafoam or Mercury Quickleen to help keep a properly functioning carburetor clean. It won't hurt to try, but if any of the carb passages are blocked, or you have bad seals, additives probably won't work and you most likely need a through carb rebuild.

 

follow directions on fuel treatment no way do you use 1/2 bottle.

how far do you have to ride for the bike to start with no problems?

 

Most likely, Carbs need cleaning.

Other things that can mimic that though---

-Battery getting weak
-starter getting weak/brushes worn
-electrical issue

Unlikely to be a valve clearance issue......internal temps take longer than that to cool down

 

Thanks for all the input guys!

Its not the battery, I just replaced that. How would I test the starter? I believe that AutoZone and similar stores can do that, but does the tester work on a bike vs. a car?
XJ550, I assume that the amount I should use will become apparent when I read the instructions? (Standing in the store before purchasing) I did 5 miles with no problem.
cgutz, his explanation was good, didn't loose me until around step 10 or so, and it's very easy to loose me. It would probably make sense to me if I did the work as I read. Reading some other posts, I may lean towards carb cleaning.
mlew, you've got mail.

 

yes it is a few oz to a tank instructions on the bottle. berrymans, seafoam, or what ever brand you wish.


KD tool 2274 is the metric feeler guage you want to buy any parts store can get you one.

do you own a multimeter? if not get one
a new battery does not garantee a good battery.

you will want to test the voltage drop when cranking.
you will want to test the charging voltage

in this link you will find info on doing the tests

The Ultimate Relay, Switch, Sensor, and Diodes Guide


read first few paragraphs then down by bottom is the testing og voltage drop and charging numbers

 

And, uh......just HOW many times have we seen a 'perfectly good and brand new' battery end up being the problem? I"ve lost count..........check it anyway

 

All good suggestions above; a battery often has enough juice to crank the engine, but not enough left over while cranking to power the coils. A weak spark won't allow the engine to catch. One symptom to look for is as soon as you release the start button, the engine "almost" catches as the crank still spins a little from momentum and the coils get the juice no longer diverted to the starter.

I have a "similar but different" minor starting issue with my XJ550. When its fully warm, it cranks much faster, and if I park it for less than 5 minutes it starts instantly with little or no throttle, but if its 10 to 20 minutes later sometimes it won't catch. The warmer it is outside, the worse the issue. It seems as if the carb bowls get too warm from radiant crankcase heat, and over 10-20 minutes it evaporates the gasoline levels in the bowls downward. That's my theory, only because the solution that always works for me is putting the petcock on prime for 10-15 seconds, then cranking and voila - she starts.

 

bikers or riders , call me a rider I don't where the 1% patch.
we will call you a wallet Biker if you want . That's someone who goes to the shop to get every thing done.
what you spend at the shop will buy you all the tools you need to maintain your bike and do what is needed to make it run properly. With the help of this web site you will be guided and learn how to much of what you need to do. I will become just a comfort level thing on what you attempt.

 

did you remove the heat shield from the bottom of your carbs?

 

Y

 

No, that heat shield is still on there. I saw a discussion somewhere about the need (or lack of need) for it, but I kept mine on regardless. Float levels are also OK, not on the low range but right on spec. Strange....

 

I substituted real reality with the one in which one bottle would treat my car with a 10 gal tank.

This, but it doesn't almost catch every time.

Let's not do that... Sounds too much like RUB.

 

So, if the heat shield is still on......I will ASSUME that the carbs have not been cleaned.

Why?.......well---

1. the floats can not be adjusted with the heat shield in place
2. If the rack is totally rebuilt, the bench-sync can't be done til the rack is tightly together. If the shield is installed first, then the rack is loosened to remove the shield, it nullifies any bench-sync that was done.

The snowball begins....
Most people. Don't want to assemble it all, sync, disassemble, re-assemble just to put the silly shield on.

I don't re-install them......I send them back separate with the 550 rack that it came in on----IF the heat shield is still present. 90% or more of the time, the 550 shield is gone already.

So in short, if the heat shield is still there, I suspect the rack hasn't been taken apart yet. Therefore, it needs a good cleaning.

 

Oh, Dave, Dave (sigh)......

......I've had my XJ550 carbs on and off more times than I can count! At least a dozen times in the 30 years I have now owned that bike. I've had to go to the Church of Clean more than once, and had to replace lots of little parts, including all those float valves that wear out. I'm getting close to 100,000 km on that bike. I ran it for a time with the heat shield off, but most often I had it on. Didn't seem to make a difference to the "hot start is stubborn after a short pause" issue, so I put it back on after the last good cleaning.

Apologies - Didn't want to hijack this thread with my minor issue, just wanted to provide some insight for JamesB's issue, maybe some things he could look at to help research his problem.

BTW.... I like the idea of combining the WNYCC with the NOCC this year to celebrate the 10th anniversary. They are both about a 4-5 hour ride for me, but I kinda like the idea of riding down; I had no issue at the border last weekend. I'd enjoy getting her tweaked with the colortune and YICS tool just to see if some optimizing can be done to her current state of tune. Who knows - maybe that's all she needs

 

Be awesome to have you stop down! It's an easy ride..... straight down, turn into the driveway

 

So here's the plan for tomorrow afternoon/Saturday morning, going to use the fuel treatment, take it out on I-95 for 20 miles, take the exit and come back. Take it to the Advance Auto, have them check the battery and starter. While there, pick up a gap tool for the spark plugs. Rest, chill, sleep, don't think about the bike. Most importantly in this step, let the engine cool off so I don't burn my hands. Wake up Saturday, pull the spark plugs, clean and regap or replace those whichever is needed. If it works, huzzah, all is right with the world, if not, look at cleaning/rebuilding the carbs.

Now for the brainpicking line: What is the proper gap for the spark plugs?

 

this part number if for feeler gauge to check valve clearence
KD tool 2274 is the metric feeler gauge

spark plug brands and gap

 

If you have no record of the carbs being clean (Church clean) then you should have that at the top of your list.

 

To emphasize ^that^ point. If you have no records that you wrote down, because you did the work...

 

Guys, I get it. Those carbs absolutely need to be cleaned/ rebuilt.

When it boils right down to it, I should not have bought a bike.

I bought a $750 bike because I can't afford anything more. This was the second bike I looked at. The first was $400, 85 Suzuki GS450L. I don't have the mechanical skills/knowledge to do this work myself. Now that I do have a nice bike, that I got for a great price, I can't afford to do necessary work to it. I put myself into a catch-22 situation.

Now that I have spoken to you guys, I am quite sure that my little plan will not get the bike to 100%, but I'm hoping that it will keep me on the road until I can get the proper work done.

 

James,
Please do not misconstrue my words as a personal attack.
You are correct in your statement about not purchasing the bike.

However you DID buy the bike and your intent is to 'keep it on the road until you can have the proper work done'.

This is a very dangerous mind set; you bought a $750 bike that is 30 years old and you really can't say for sure what type of care was given to it in those 30 years. It has two wheels, it can go fast, it has a small profile and often isn't seen by other motorists.
How much do you like your skin? Your unbroken bones?
If you are riding the bike more than 10mph inside of an empty parking lot you are ok; if not then having a bike that is safe and reliable should be a priority. That means there is much to be done.
What do carbs have to do with safety? - There are times when avoiding an accident means taking an evasive maneuver; you want to blip that throttle and have instant response, not bogging or unpredictable reactions.

You CAN LEARN how to become an XJ mechanic by hanging out here, reading and asking questions.
It is ultimately your choice and you can keep coming here asking questions to satisfy your agenda; but the fact is you will continue to get replies that go above and beyond what you THINK you can do and what SHOULD be done.

Take care and be safe!

 

James..... You CAN do almost all the work yourself. You just have to be patient with yourself, ask us a million questions, and be ready for us to take you all the way through. If you ask, listen, and do.......we'll get you there. It may be in baby steps, it may be in big steps at times. We'll go as slow and as detailed as you need, as long as you keep going.

Your 700 has just been neglected for a long time. You've just got to correct all that. The 700 itself is a great, bullet-proof, fun, peppy, and sharp-looking bike. Get it back to safe and good running condition, then you can do the cosmetics as time permits.

You have NOT lost money on it. You'll fall in love with it all over again when it's done.

hang in there. Don't rush.... Don't look at the clock. Or calendar......it gets done when it gets done. I have some that I put on the road almost immediately, but I have others that are still apart after 4 yrs

 

You guys have been great. Thank you for honesty and thank you for trying to get my stubborn head on straight.

Right now I am dealing with frustration, and that's on me. I should have known better than to buy an older bike and think its ready to go. Cosmetics, that won't cause any other damage, are just looks. These carbs are at the forefront of my mind. I have to get time and resources together and get the job done.

 

short of buying a new bike all used bikes will need work due to negllect of the PO

 

James, if I can do my own maintenance, so can you. I lost sleep for a month or more the first time I was getting ready to check and adjust my valves. When I finally woke up one Saturday, I took a breath, and said to myself "Today is the day..." As it turned out the, step by step on this website walked me right through it.

It will mean buying some parts, and maybe a few tools, but the step by steps on this website, and the experienced members, will walk you through the maintenance that will be necessary: brakes, valves, carbs, etc.

At the very least, get the front and rear brakes checked as maintained as necessary. There is a reason this thread is always at the top of the Technical Chat forum: http://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/safety-alert-drum-rear-brake-bike-owners-please-take-a-look.15874/

You can do it. FYI - Unless a star appears, any older bike you buy in that price range will require an investment in maintenance.

 

....and the same goes for a lot of NEW bikes, as well

 

JamesB, private message sent to your inbox----

Dave Fox

 

BTW, the 700 was a MUCH better purchase than the 450 would have been

 

Yep. My 2009 scooter had a bad fuel pump direct from the Yamaha factory.

 

Where are you in North Carolina? Might be someone close by that can help you. I have a XJ700N and would be glad to help you get yours running. However, I'm in Brunswick, GA and that's probably a long way from you. Maybe you have a local friend that has some mechanical experience that can help. It's not hard but you do have to follow the process or you'll be doing it again. I let a shop clean my carbs and it turned out to be a waste of about $200 because I had to go back into them to properly set the floats, replace the needles and seats, and clean the enrichment system, not to mention syncing them and properly setting the pilot screws. But trust us, you will really love the bike when you get it right. Hopefully, it is stock, and if so keep it stock.

 

I'm in Smithfield. It's at 95 and US-70. I am looking into help. I have a couple friends that can help.

Far as I know, it's all stock. No plans to make changes other than a few things to increase visibility. HID headlight. Strobe on the front, modulate the taillight. Need to do something for the grips. They are worn slick.

I ordered all this before you guys screwed my head on straight about the carbs.

 

Increase visibility?

How's this?


A roll of DOT reflective tape, a scrapbooking die-cut, and a few evenings of my time.

I also added a pair of LED running lights so there is a triangle of light out front. It's very visible to other's during the day, and adds great visibility for me on dark country roads.

 

Wow, there is no missing that helmet. I have a similar plan for mine, reflective decals that I custom designed. I apparently took the design to an idiot (that had done previous good work for me) and two of the three sets came out way too big. I got to make my way back there to get them done right, but busy weekend, she is only open on Saturday and Sunday.

The three other projects I am waiting for parts to do. Total price: $15 and change

Visibility Project 1: HID I need to get a few feet of wire to provide flexibility on where I put the ballest.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/25247928982...49&var=551358253653&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Visibility Project 2: Strobe The light itself may not work for me, but I dropped $2 on a maybe instead of more on something nice and still a maybe.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/36190088000...49&var=631167737761&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/112237844121?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


Visibility Project C: Modulating Brake Light
http://www.ebay.com/itm/172515433175?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT