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Wire spoke wheels for XJ550 Seca

Discussion in 'XJ Modifications' started by shotgunjoe, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. shotgunjoe

    shotgunjoe New Member

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    I'm not certain how many people would be interested in this... however, considering that I have the info I figured I'd pass it on.

    Background info; My last bike was an XS650, which I turned into what I will call a cafe/fighter. It was a later model bike which I converted from alloy 'mag' wheels (19/16), to alloy wire spoke wheels (19/18). I am also currently building a XS650 bobber for my wife.

    I have a few parts laying around, and you can consider what I will tell you to be absolute and truthful.

    On we go. So we already know that the XJ550 Seca has a 15mm front axle, and 17mm rear axle. You may or may not know that the XS650 uses a 17mm front axle and 20mm rear axle. So clearly the wheels are NOT a direct swap...

    Now, both bikes use 35mm forks (early XS650 used 34mm so be certain of which one you buy), they also both have the exact same triple tree layout concerning the spacing between fork legs, and ALSO the tree offset is exactly the same. The upper tree will actually swap between bikes, but its not needed for the swap. At the very least, you will need the XS650 fork legs, the axle, spacers, speedo drive, and wheels. All of this bolts directly on. I have tested this and it works. (interesting side note, all disc brake XS650's use the same width hubs). It is likely that you will also need the rotor and caliper as well... this I did not test as I decided to keep my stock wheels for now.

    For the rear, all wire spoke wheel xs650's used drum brakes, so you will need a xs650 drum brake swingarm. It bolts up to the XJ550 seca frame perfectly! They use the same diameter swingarm bolt, and the same bushings... this info should also benefit those not interested in this swap because the XS650 has bronze bushing kits, as well as needle bearing kits. You will run into one particular issue when fitting the XS650 swingarm, in that the drum brake pivot is further back on the xj550... the swingarm has a dent in it to give clearance for this pivot. The dent on the XJ swinger is longer than that of the XS, so this will need to be modded. I would heat it with a torch and smack it with a hammer... but thats me. The XS650 swingarm is also the same length as the XJ550, so no change there, AND the shock tabs are also the same. Essentially anything that can be used on the XS650 can also be used for the XJ550... easiest being the XS750, which is about a half inch longer.

    Sorry, no pics gents. Enjoy this awesome info... the ground work is set.
     
  2. MiGhost

    MiGhost Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Lower 48 in general. Otherwise Central Mitten.
    To put some part numbers to the info provided for further clairfication.

    Front Forks:
    3L1-23101-00-00 FRONT FORK ASSEMBLY
    XS650E/F/G/H - 78-81
    XS650SE/SF/SG/SH/SJ/SK - 78-83 (XS650 Special)
    XS650SE-11 - 1978

    Note: 75-77 XS650 used 34mm fork tubes
    Note: The XS650SE/SF/SG/SH/SJ/SK - 78-83 (XS650 Special) used the alloy spoke wheel instead of the wire wheels

    Front Wheel identified by hub:
    341-25111-01-00 HUB, FRONT
    XS2 - 1972
    TX650 - 1973
    TX650A - 1974
    TX750 - 1973
    TX750A - 1974
    XS650_2F - 1979
    XS650B/C/D/E/F/G/H - 75-81

    REAR Wheel identified by hub:
    256-25311-00-00 HUB, REAR
    TX650 - 1973
    TX650A - 1974
    XS1 - 1970
    XS1B - 1971
    XS2 - 1972
    XS650_2F - 1979
    XS650B/C/D/E/F/G/H - 75-81

    Note: The XS650 rear wheel does not use the cush drive like the XJ550

    Yamaha used 3 different rear swingarms in this time period.

    2M0-22110-10-98 REAR ARM | LOW GLOSS BLK
    XS650H - 1981
    XS650SH/SJ/SK - 81-83

    2M0-22110-01-33 REAR ARM | YAMAHA BLK
    XS650SE/SF/SG - 78-80
    XS650SE-11 - 1978

    447-22110-00-98 REAR ARM | YAMAHA BLK
    TX650A - 1974
    XS650_2F - 1979
    XS650D/E/F/G - 77-80

    Note: No information found for the rear swingarm on the 75-76 XS650B/C

    This is only the begining of the information that will need to be checked, and verified to make sure that the modification is completed safely, and successfully. Items such as Brakes, Steering, and Shocks will also have to be checked.

    Ghost
     
  3. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    DANGER, Will Robinson, danger!

    Not only that, the XS has a considerably smaller rear sprocket.

    HOWEVER: The XT/TT500 ('78~'80) had an 18" wire rear wheel that DOES have a cush drive.

    Plus, it came with a 44T rear sprocket (same as the '82-'83 Seca 550) and you can get a 45T as well (stock for the '81 Seca 550.)

    The only downside is the rim size (1.85;) you'd need to lace up a slightly wider rim.
     
  4. shotgunjoe

    shotgunjoe New Member

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    i havent tried yet, but the bolt pattern looks pretty close... the sprocket may bolt on.

    i dont see how ditching the cush drive is a bad thing
     
  5. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Ask your transmission about that.

    It's not that the XS didn't have a cush drive; it was located elsewhere, just not the rear wheel. In the case of the 550s, it happens to be in the rear wheel. Switch to an "uncushioned" rear wheel and you've eliminated it altogether.

    Not a good idea. If it weren't necessary, Yamaha wouldn't have gone to all the trouble to engineer it in.
     
  6. PAULHEWI

    PAULHEWI New Member

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    HI guys just to let you know i am in the later stages of installing a set of wire / spoked wheels to my cafe 81 xj550 .
    I have sourced a set of xs400 wheels and trust me these go striaght in you only need to have some spacers made (costing me £30 )
    disks line up as the xs had one disk but a cover on the other side .
    The main difference is the xs400 is 18".
    So will see how she handles and need a new rear sprocket .
    So will be looking at putting 110/90 18 front and if i can get it to fit a 120/90 18 .

    Will let you know how I get on but its all looking good
     
  7. PAULHEWI

    PAULHEWI New Member

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    I know that the xs400 wheels
    these have rubbers around the mounting points for the rear sprocket so has a limited cush drive but nothing like the larger ones that are in the xj550 cast wheels
     
  8. Radarmac

    Radarmac New Member

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    i'm currently putting the xj550 mags on my xs 650. figured i'd share what i've figured out about it so far. the xj front wheel takes a dg 1742 bearing http://www.noc.ua/en/online-catalog-bearings/232-itemdescription.html?bearing=610e536e597b51013b1d3776&title=DG+1742+RSC3&key=692 that uses the stock xs axle for the front. on the rear the sprocket can be changed out to stock xs teeth 32t sprocket. the bearings for the rear. "6304-2rsc3" stays the same, "6303-2rsc3" changes to a "6204-2rsc3"... the 6203-2rs is the one i'm haveing trouble converting to the 20mm axle. need a bearing mesuring 20x40x12. i'm thinking of using "6004" which messures 20x42x12. and send my rim to my brother and have him make the bearing fit
     
  9. 88tlc

    88tlc New Member

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    hey guys i wanted to ask a bit more about this... is it true that XS650 swing arm parts will fit into the 81 XJ550 swingarm?

    i have an 1981 yamaha seca 550 that i am rebuilding, and have a hard time finding this swing arm parts. and i like the brass bushings that MIKES XS site has available. any help appreciated.

    i checked a few of the bushing specs

    28mmOD x 22mm ID x 43 mm overall length

    the internal hollow shaft

    21.9mm OD x 16.13 mm ID


    and the swingarm bolt

    15.98mm diameter by approx 10.25 inch in length
     
  10. mtnbikecrazy55

    mtnbikecrazy55 Active Member

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    Actually - 81 550's came with a 46T rear sprocket, while the 82-83 550's came with a 45T rear sprocket.

    All 3 years came with a 16T front sprocket.
     
  11. 88tlc

    88tlc New Member

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    Swing arm parts for XJ550 Seca - same as XS?

    i wanted to ask again, and make sure i had an appropriate title...

    Can i use these XS parts on my XJ 550 swingarm?

    http://www.mikesxs.net/products-20.html#products

    the initial post said he was able to put an XS swing arm, onto an XJ, but i wanted to confirm!
     
  12. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I have a set of stock XJ550 swingarm bushings at home; I'll compare their dimensions to the MikesXS parts and post results.
     
  13. 88tlc

    88tlc New Member

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    swing arm parts FROM XS fit on the XJ550?

    Following up with the mikes XS guys and see if their bronze bushings and swing arm parts will fit on the XJ.

    the mikes XS guys do not have measurements on their site, so not sure how you might be able to compare.

    I have the XJ parts out of the XJ, and measured up the bushing and posted earlier. but does anyone have an XS bushing laying around they can measure?

    i also pinged the xjforever guys, but they are over double the price! so would be good if the MIKES XS parts would fit.

    thanks for the help...
     
  14. Kickaha

    Kickaha Active Member Premium Member

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    I'd be putting in the needle roller bearing swingarm kit from Mikes XS over bushs any day which listed for the XS/TX 650 also says it fits

    RD250 73-75, RD350 A/B 73-75, RD350 LC 80-82, RD350 LCYPVS 83-84, RD400 76-79 XS400 77-82 except SECA and Maxim, XJ550 Maxim and Seca 81-83
     
  15. quebecois59

    quebecois59 Well-Known Member

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    Cross-reference database shows that original swing arm bushings were the same for the following models:

    XS360, XS400, XS500, XS650 and XJ550 Maxim and Seca 81 to 83.

    So those MikesXS sells should fit OK.
     
  16. kostago

    kostago New Member

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    I have XJ 400 seca from 1985 with stock alloy blade rims 19 front and 18 rear, and have located xs400 18's front and rear alloy rims (rear rim without the axle and sprocket) so was wondering whether I can buy them and put them on my xj400, and what modifications, axles, spacers will be needed? I know that the sprocket on xs 400 is different with 4 bolts and the stock xj400 has 6 bolts sprocket.
     
  17. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Unless that rear wheel contains drive cushion shock absorbers like the 550s rear wheel, I wouldn't use that wheel.

    The USA-market XS400s with wire wheels had solid rear hubs; not a good swap for the original with the drive cushions in it.

    The XT500 series had wire wheels and that rear hub does have drive cushions in it; plus they came with the option of a 45T rear sprocket.

    If I were doing this mod (and I still might) I'd use an XT500 rear wheel.
     
  18. 88tlc

    88tlc New Member

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    The swing arm from an XS did fit, but was too long!

    i had to cut the bolt, and rethread it about 20mm shorter.

    but mikes XS part does allow for grease fittings on both sides.

    getting a XJ550 seca rolling, more info soon.
     

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