1996 Seca II Intermittent Starting Issues

Hi all. I'm new to the site, and it saddens me that I've already had to pay this section of the forums a visit. Let me explain...
I bought a 1996 Seca II about a month ago. I rode it for about 2 weeks, with absolutely no problems. I checked the oil, and oiled the chain the day I got it. All seemed well during the first 2 weeks.
One day I was rolling up to a red light after riding it for about an hour. When I disengaged the clutch, the bike shut off as I rolled up to the light. I attempted to restart it, but it wouldn't start without me giving it some throttle. I got it started, and rode off, but it had a serious loss of power. As I was riding, I downshifted just to see if anything would change. Nothing changed, and it was very sluggish and hesitant. I made it to my destination, about 1/8th mile down the road. When I arrived, the bike again shut off when I disengaged the clutch. It would not say on and idle, it would only remain running if I gave it throttle. I did my business, got the bike started again after some struggling, and rode off toward home. Again, I pull up to a red light, and it dies. This time, I couldn't do anything to get it started. I pulled off into a nearby parking lot and started looking for loose or broken fuel and vacuum lines. Didn't find anything. Attempted to start it a few times, but after about 3-4 times of trying to start it unsuccessfully, the battery had gotten so weak it couldn't power the starter motor anymore, and that was it.

After the bike sat for a few days, I trailered it home. I charged the battery, and again tried to start it with no success. Even after charging the battery I could still only get 4-5 attempts out of it before it was too weak to turn the starter motor (I have no clue if that is normal for a motorcycle battery). After failing to get it started, I decided I needed to do more, so I removed the fuel tank and air box to check the filter. Air filter is clean, looks new. I looked around some more to see if I could see anything... Nothing... I didn't remove the carbs or take them apart in any way, but I did look down in to them after removing the air box, and from what I could see they looked squeeky clean. I put some SeaFoam in the gas tank (yes, I have gas) and put everything back together. Attempted to start with no success. I then began the process of checking the spark on all of the spark plugs. I pulled #1, and the spark looked good and strong. The plug wasn't dirty, or wet, and had no carbon build up. Same result with #2. I pulled #4 to check it's spark, and while I was holding the start button, the bike STARTED with #4 spark plug REMOVED! I quickly hit the kill switch, and reinstalled #4, as it looked as good as #1 and #2. With the bike completely back together, I attempted to start it again, and it fired right up, no problems at all. I took it out for a short, 5 minute ride, and everything seemed to work perfectly. Brought it home, parked it, and went to bed.

Next morning, I go to start the bike, and again it fires right up without hesitation. Idles fine, and stays running for me. I let it warm up for about 5 minutes, and the ambient temperature is somewhere in the mid 70's. I begin to ride toward my place of work, and about half way there, maybe about a mile and a half, I approach a stop sign, and the bike shuts off when I disengage the clutch. Start it back up, wont start without some throttle, and ride up to the next stop sign, where it does the same thing. This time I can't get it to start back up, and after trying to start it about 2-3 times, the battery is too weak to turn the starter motor again, and I have to walk back home.

This is the second time now I've been stranded, obviously something is going wrong. Any ideas of where I should start? Is it normal for a motorcycle battery to die so quickly from turning a starter motor? I never held the start button in for more than 5 seconds at a time. Both times it died, I tried to open the gas tank and start it, as I've read that it could be clogged ventilation. No results.
Thanks everyone for your input in advance.

 

May be just a bad battery. Try to jump it with a car battery and see if that works. I don't know much about the ignition system but I've read on here that the alternator doesn't kick in until about 2000 rpm, so at idle it is running on the battery. If it is very weak it my not have enough juice to fire the plugs. I keep my bike hooked up to a battery tender any time it's in the garage, but that really won't help a battery that is going bad.

 

Checking the oil and oiling the chain is not enough.
Sounds like a bad battery and a charging system that needs a little love.

Read this:
http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/the-information-overload-hour.27544/
Your bike is not as old as many here but neglected maintenance (all scheduled maintenance) needs to be gone over. This goes beyond stalling at a light, your safety is more important than being embarassed pushing a bike into a parking lot.

 

Thank you for your response tabaka45 and stumplifter. I have an early update. I got it to start about 30 minutes ago by jumping it with a car battery, and opening the choke. I've noticed now, that the idle is all over the place. It goes anywhere from 1200 rpm to 3000 rpm, just sitting at idle. Note that when I first got the bike, the idle was steady around 1500 rpm.

 

That sounds like an air leak. Take a propane tank and while it is idling put some propane all around the intake manifolds and the throttle rail that goes through all the carbs and controls the butterfly valves. If the rpm goes up you have found the leak. Often the seal are leaking. If the bike set up for a long time you propably need to plan on removing and cleaning the carbs in any case. It is interesting that it ran "well" for a couple of weeks, although 1500 is high for normal idle, at least on an XJ700. By the way, what do your plugs look like? Golden brown I hope.

 

Coming here is not a shameful thing. You bought a 21 year old motorcycle, which means that you bought a machine that isn't going to be perfect until you make it perfect.
Follow the advice given above. Work methodically, patiently, and rests the urge to rush. You might not be riding very much this summer, but once you go though the machine and catch up on all the deferred maintenance you'll have many years of trouble-free riding.

 

Thanks for your replies guys. As the story goes, this bike as been a daily driver for the previous owner. He had the inspection up to date, and his brother was riding it this year before he sold it. He said it was his daily last year. The inside of the tank is incredibly clean, but the filter and hose look pretty old, so I've got all new fuel and vacuum hose on the way along with a new fuel filter, just for the sake of having new stuff on such an old bike. I'm planning on removing and rebuilding the carbs before I do much else. I did notice that the rubbers connecting the air box to the carbs are worn. The one on #1 is sketchy, and doesn't want to go on the car the whole way for some reason.... Is there a place you guys prefer to get oem or equivalent parts? And thank you tabaka, I will test for leaks tonight.

 

Upper right hand corner, XJ4Ever, click it, let Chacal know what you need.

I am not familiar with your bike but when I first got mine the airbox was not fully forward and had a similar issue with the boots not going all the way on the carbs. Should be able to loosen the airbox and skootch it forward, it may not appear to move a lot but it should make a big difference.

 

"He said" is only proof of what he told you, not of what state the motocycle is actually in. Lots of people ride and drive vehicles that are in dire need of maintenance.

 

The SECA II airbox is under, and hidden by, the gas tank. I'm not sure that it has provisions for adjustment.
I'm no expert though. The last time I was near one was in '94.

 

The air box is not adjustable. I removed it and took the filter out to inspect it, and it looks relatively new. I think I got it sealed on the carbs, but for some reason the #1 just doesn't go on as far as the others. Another thing I've realized is that when I ran it last night, I had the petcock set to reserve instead of on. This morning I had it set to on, when it stopped working. Then on the way home, when I got it started again, it was back on res. Perhaps this has something to do with it? What do you guys think? Oh and for the record, there's plenty of "fresh" gas in the tank.

 

The petcock is vacuum operated (as is the fuel pump). I'd start looking at the vacuum lines. Check for leaks, cracks, and to be sure that the vacuum lines really are meant for vacuum. A lot of people change them out for whatever is handy, no knowing that the wall thickness of vacuum line is what keeps it from collapsing when the engine is running.

It's also possible that the seals in the petcock are damaged, or plugged, keeping fuel from flowing in any position other than Prime.

 

I've got all new vacuum and fuel lines on the way. Suppose I'll find out... Perhaps the diaphragm has a leak? I've not had it apart, but maybe I ought to change it for the peace of mind.

 

The next time it acts up switch the petcock to Prime and see if that solves the problem. If so, you should rebuild the petcock.

 

Noted, thank you tabaka.

 

Aahhh, so here's something interesting. I turned the bike on, and I was just observing it as it idled. I could hear an intermittent noise. It didn't have a specific time interval, it was random. Sometimes it would happen after 30 seconds, sometimes 10 seconds, sometimes more. So it sounded almost like a tiny pressure relief valve. Upon further observation I realized this blow off sound was coming from around the carbs, and sometimes when it would happen, I could see somewhat of a mist puff out from in between #3 and #4 carb, on the rear facing side. Is this normal? I can't imagine it is. It seems to coincide with the rpm changes as well. Let me know your thoughts.

 

I really don't know anything except an 81 XJ650 Maxim, but what you described sounds wrong.

Church. It may be Monday but you need to go to Church. Not sure if this is relevant to your carbs:
http://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/in-the-church-of-clean.14692/

This^^^ can't be stressed enough. You need to become your own motorcycle mechanic, be thorough and you will be rewarded with a safe and reliable ride.

 

Nothing should be "puffing" out of the carbs, or between them, front or back. Are you sure the carb boot clamps are tight? When it "puffs" does the engine stumble or is there any change in the idle? Personally, I would resolve that issue before riding it again.

 

What they said.

I wouldn't even start it again until that problem is fixed. Atomized fuel spraying out of the carbs is a fire waiting to happen.

 

To answer tabaka, the carb boot clamps are maxed out. And yes this does coincide with the idle changing I mentioned earlier. I figured that wasn't right... Sounds like I've got a minor surgery to perform. Looking forward to it, and the peace of mind that it brings. Not sure if you guys have seen my introduction thread. I'm an 8 year industrial maintenance technician and a 10 year auto hobbyist. I've done a lot with FUEL INJECTED cars (never worked on carbs), up to and including full engine rebuilds. So I'm hoping the task of maintaining this motorcycle doesn't prove too daunting for me. I really appreciate the guidance I've received here. Forums never cease to prove their value to me. Thanks everyone, I'm going to start reading up on rebuilding these carbs. Goodnight all.

 

So I've removed the carburetors, and I've come to find the intake boots that hold them to the intake manifold are all riddled with cracks... Perhaps I've got a leak here? I supposed I could just throw them back on quick and spray some starter fluid around em to see what happens?

 

You could, but since you have them off you could just repair the cracks with oil resistant RTV. There are a few threads with posts about how to do that.