Oil: Mineral oil v Petroleum oil based motor oils.

I did a quick search and did find the answer.
1) I was wondering what the real difference is?
2) Can a person mix the Mineral based with Petroleum based in the bike? ( I.e. adding one to the other in the bike).
3) What difference does Synthetic add to the discussion?

 

the xj motor was built tolerances which depend on the oil weights of the times to lubricate properly.
so I would stick with the conventional jaso cert oils.
this is covered in the many threads on oils.
synthetic oils sit on the fence as far as being useable due to starter clutches.
people who had starter clutch issues and used synthetic oil found some relife to the problem by going back to conventional oil.
others claim no problem using syn oil. This could be due to the starter clutch being near to the end of its service life.
why tempt fate

 

^^^^+1 many times synthetic oil can cause clutch slip as well ( litterly too slick to catch on friction material if it is an old clutch plates) and starter clutch the same . My starter clutch slips bad after engine is real hot , takes several tries to start before it catches . Is better since I switched to 20/50W motorcycle oil from 10/40 Motorcycle oil.

 

aren't we confusing synthetic oil with car oil. there are some very good synthetic "motorcycle" oils , which wont make the clutch or starter clutch slip.
stu

 

I am of the mindset use what it was designed to use. Synthetics are cool and yes come with some advantages but ultimately the engine and it's tolerances were not designed to be run on synthetic. Synthetic oil will bypass rings that the same weight petroleum oil won't. The nature of the oil can degrade seals and find its way out through seals that petroleum based products won't pass.

 

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. Synthetic oil will bypass rings that the same weight petroleum oil won't. The nature of the oil can degrade seals and find its way out through seals that petroleum based products won't pass.
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just myths i'm afraid. see here
http://www.whybike.com/motorcycle41.htm
stu

 

Unfortunately a brief scan of the article has no real evidence that something that was made in recent years would have been completely compatible for use in the 1980's.
It goes on to state that it's not incompatible with seals however it gives no context as to material makeup of seals tested. In a properly built factory condition engine perhaps bypassing rings may not be true however in a more worn in engine the alternative can be true. It's no secret that synthetics flow better than regular motor oil. The rating of the oil is based on a thickness test not it's ability to permeate small cracks. Lubricants are incredibly complex not just the dumbed down Dino juice most people believe they are. It's why we have things like jaso ratings, why oils are designated as hydraulic fluid, brake fluid, power steering fluid, transmission fluid. They are oil lubricants and power transmission fluids built for specific applications. You may interchange them but they will not perform as expected because they aren't built for it and neither is the mechanical device using them.
So, should you pour modern technology into something several generations old it will most likely not perform as expected.
This is my reason for not using synthetics.

 

I've gone back and forth between synth and conventional oil. I'm closing in on 100K miles on the XS1100 and 56K on my XS650. The best oil is the clean and slippery kind. It helps to avoid friction modifiers.
This is bad for your bike.

Blank in the bottom of the donut is better.

Use motorcycle oil and avoid the worry.

 

BTW, I always thought this was mineral oil. I wouldn't put it in my engine.

 

As far as motorcycles are concerned...if it doesn't say JASO approved for motorcycles, it doesn't go in my engine...my 2 cents.

 

Cars to bikes = apples to oranges......but.......an old friend of mine had an old Toyota that he bought new in the late 80s. A few years ago he was at a quick lube place and the guy talked him into synthetic oil......within a few hundred miles it started burning oil like you wouldn't believe.......almost couldn't follow behind him from the smell coming out of his tail pipe.

 

some members have had good luck with synthetic oil some have not. so to be on the safe side I go with conventional jaso cert oil
made from dinosaur. maybe when they make synthetic dinosaurs I will go with synthetic oil.
would rather not try it and have it cause me problems.

 

Example I am currently using Yamalube 10w40 ( I believe) it is a mineral oil based oil , but since my bike uses oil I went to local auto store and found a T-4 ( MC) 10w-40 Castro oil that was Petro based oil. both are same weight and both are Motor Cycle oils, just one is mineral oil other is petroleum based.

 

1. All motor oil is petroleum based (unless you're a dedicated castor oil user). Mineral oil is a specific distillate that comes from crude oil, and is not used in motor oil (baby oil is mineral oil).
2. Synthetic oils are engineered from the same base oils as conventional oil, but conventional oil is not engineered (it's just selected/blended based on naturally occuring propereties).
3. JASO MA. If that's on the container you're good to go in an XJ, whether it's synthetic or conventional.

 

Good to know, but can I mix the Petroleum and "mineral" motor cycle oils in my bike? ( same weight )

 

Out of curiosity why are you going for mineral oil? Is it more cost effective, more readily available? Or are you just wanting to try it cause it's something different?

 

The pedant in me really wishes y'all'd stop calling it mineral oil.

Both conventional and synthetic motor oils come from petroleum.
B0th can be mixed (you can even buy it pre-blended; semi-synthetic).

This is Mineral oil, and you don't want it in your engine.

 

"Pedant" ....

 

First time I've heard synthetic oil called mineral oil.

 

I use water based lube. Oh, were we supposed to be talking about motorcycles?

 

Castrol go 4t bottle description calls it "mineral based" so it looks like people are confusing it with standard mineral oil

 

Never heard synthetic called mineral oil before. Honestly thought we were talking about some mineral oil alternative engine oil.

 

I just use JASO certified Shell Rotella T4 15w-40. It relatively cheap, easily available and does a great job for my XJ/wet clutch.

Note: edited for correct brand.

 

Really happy with this stuff too. Errr, well, Shell Rotella T4 15w-40 anyways... Same product?

 

It's Shell around here... Afik, Castrol is a different company...

 

New bikes and diesel trucks now have catalytic converters, correct? Zinc destroys them, correct? Zinc content is minimized in all the oil, correct? Zinc is good for flat tappet cams. Valvoline Racing has zinc and works fine with the clutch.

 

the pi states NOT recomended for wet clutch, this oil is not JASO MA

Not recommended for extended use in vehicles with catalytic converters. Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is not recommended for use in wet clutches (use Valvoline 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil).
"correct?"

PI SHEET | SDS

 

Do xjs have flat tappet cams? I thought they were bucket over shim... just checked your signature, is the xs different? My Rebel has tappets, will Rotella still be good? Oh, Mr 550 replied that it's not JASO... I'm out!

 

Valvoline VV205 - Valvoline VR1 Racing Motor Oil

Compare
Motor Oil, VR1 Racing, Mineral, 10W30, 1 qt., Each
(12)
Part Number: VLV-VV205 More Detail...

summit racing equipment calls it mineral oil

this oil is not for use in wet clutch bikes

 

OK. Good. This looks like a good place to have the discussion.

Your XJ does not have a roller cam. Shim over bucket is what I believe you have. It's the same as flat tappet for our purposes.


This stuff is $18.68 per gallon. https://images.rockymountainatvmc.com/images/prod/400/y/yam_oil_all_pur_4str_20w50.jpg
The same folks have very good tire prices. I get a few gallons with tires to enjoy the free shipping.


Currently, this is in my crank case. No clutch issues.

 

I'll have to go find this, but I think the donut is blank on the bottom. If that's the case, the post I made earlier is incorrect as well. I guess that goes to show you, you can't always believe what people say on these forums. I'll stick with what I posted the first time. Use motorcycle oil.

 

Yes, as opposed the rollers.

Yamalube 20W50 is $18.63 per gallon from Rocky Mountain ATV. Their tire prices are as good as any as well. Tires and oil together means free shipping.

 

just click the blue letters and it will take you to the pdf link PI SHEET | SDS

so I guess I just missed the part in your post about not using the valveoline oil

 

Correct. Rotella is a Shell product line.

 

Flat as opposed to tappets with roller followers or hydraulic lifters. So yes, and yes.

 

I wonder if we have an existing oil thread?
Somewhere....
Perhaps...

 

I'll focus on this part of your post.
Corect, corect, correct. There are a few oils that still have relatively high ZDDP content, and the newer diesel oils have been engineered to provide the same benefits as the older high ZDDP content oils, while still having a lower ZDDP content so they can be used with catalytic converters.

Besides the usual concerns over friction modifiers that don't play well with the engine clutch, the XJ series has a starter clutch that is prone to slipping when the wrong type of oil is used. Under those conditions, starter clutch slippage typically shows up even when there is no sign of engine clutch slippage.


Also, No motorcycle manufacturer makes oil. They do have oil made for them, and typically charge extra so you can have their brand name on the bottle. The certification standard is the certification standard, is the certification standard, regardless of manufacturer; regardless of brand.

If you find a deal on Yamalube, buy it, but only if it's truly at a lower cost than buying another brand.

 

Side track: how long does oil last in an open container? Someone mentioned price per gallon above. I believe that would do nearly 3 oil changes on my teensy weensy Rebel. Would it go bad in a year or more?

 

Not in a year. Hell, oil's fine for a year in a car, mileage allowing. In a nice closed container, it'll be fine. After all, it's already millions of years old =)

 

Keep it sealed or covered make sure no dirt or water gets in it and it will be fine. Check the bottle for an expiry date. I bet like most products it will have one.

 

As long as it's stored closed, and in a climate-controlled environment, motor oil will be fine to use decades later.

 

Confusing?
I was buying oil this weekend and the Petroleum based (Non-Synthetic) was labeled "Mineral" Oil.??


For comparison; here is the Full Synthetic:

 

I think they started using mineral oil as the name for conventional oil. Kinda like how a station wagon is now called a sport back.
Brief googling has not revealed exactly what a engine mineral oil is exactly.

 

Marketing departments; messing up terminology for over 100 years.

 

Found a bottle of Valvoline High Zinc. Nothing on the label warns about the clutch issue. IMHO, that's the first place it should be.

 

Return it.
As mentioned earlier, that oil is not JASO MA compliant, and Valvoline recommends against using it in a wet-clutch engine.
198b6f26-337e-e711-9c10-ac162d889bd3

You can't look for warnings against uses (e.g. you will not find warnings against using it in airplanes, or for cooking, because the label would have to be the size of the store); you have to look for the JASO MA seal, or language that note complinance with that standard. See Choosing Oil for a Wet Clutch Motorcycle for more info.