New guy from D.C.

Drove a few hours into the Virginia Mountains to pick up a 1982 Xj650RJ. Carbs were off the bike but overall it looks decently clean. All the joints are smooth moving with no wobbles which is a good sign. Came with the lock and tool kit and keys, as well as an extra headlight.
On the ride home from the glorious pickup


I went through the carbs just popping them open since the last owner stated he cleaned them. All look clean with no residues inside, I adjusted the idle screws and did the bench synch. I figure I'll get the carbs on and get the bike started and idling to assess. Then i will go to church and check the shim clearances.

I currently have on order a new fuse box (blade style) that should come in tomorrow. Also have a side stand switch NIB on the way to replace the broken one.

The tail guard was bobbed and the grips are terrible aftermarket crap. Also the bike was dropped on the right once (small irregular scratched on the right side cover) and laid down on the right (linear scratches on the left side engine cover and exhaust) looks like a lower speed fall. The title states 34k, the odometer states 11k and the extra odometer states 56k. I will likely clock the one on the bike forward to the title mileage.

And more pics!! Because everyone loves pictures






I am looking forward to doing all the necessary maintenance to get on the road then a few years down the road I will hopefully do a nut and bolt restoration.

 

Just replied to your other post in the 'how did you get here' forum

 

Welcome Glen,
Looks like your truck is designed for picking up bikes.... How many bikes do you have?

 

How do people keep finding these 650s? It's killing me! Lucky dawg!

 

Nice score! I remember "missing out" on a 650 seca when I picked up my Turbo because it was "too much" ($1200). Kinda regretted it (the Turbo was $250).

I'm out in Fairfax, VA if you need any help

 

Thank you,

Currently I have this Seca and my wife has a 1980 xs400 at her place in Mississippi.

The truck had a 6' trunklid but being in the military I figured I would have to move and needed a way to transport my Triumph.... What you see is what I came up with and my dad helped me build since factory truck beds cost a lot to buy and paint.

 

Once you get her up and running you can take her on the rolling thunder ride. That is a blast around the beltway with a police escort. Have fun with your new toy.

 

Have a new/updated fuse panel installed.

Key on:
Taillight on, right turn signal works, left turn signal switch doesn't feel right, neutral light on, Slstarter button won't turn it over, no solenoid click either.

I jumped the starter out and it turns over. Jumped the solenoid out and it doesn't click. Guess I need a starter solenoid, I will spend more time on it at another time. I have work tonight.

 

I walk outside.....

 

I FB marketplace searched Yamaha....

 

Well,

I replaced the broken hi beam switch on the left controls. Swapped the kill switch from some extra controls so now it switches back and forth. Side stand switch is enroute/in base sorting.

Also have headed my way a first edition genuine Yamaha service manual for xj650rj. So the xj650 manual with the rj supplement.

After I order a new starter solenoid I should be able to get it started and running. Then check the valves, synch the carbs and see how it idles and runs.

Then throw more money at it...

 

After more testing,

Starter solenoid works. But starter button does not. Looking into that tomorrow.

Also while cranking the bike I'm finding no spark. Hopefully when I get my kickstand switch I can start figuring out all the wiring.

 

Often times a good cleaning is all the starter button needs.

 

Did a full cleaning of the right hand controls and reassembled with dielectric grease. It feels like the button doesn't actually make contact (the button pushes all the way flush and doesn't feel bottomed out), maybe the button contact is worn too much?

Maybe I can flip the contact. The back side has a longer contact surface poking out. Is this a thing?

I'll be popping out the plugs and scrubbing them, then reassemble and attempt to start with starting fluid instead of gas.

Popping on the carbs and attempting to start, flooded the bike. I set the petcock to prime for a bit then shut off and attempted to turn over, I'll add the vacuum line and go with that instead of prime.

Had a bit of fuel seep from the intake boot on cylinder 1. Not excited about that added cost. (That tells me I definitely flooded the bike of the intake boot can seep fuel out)

Oil change conducted, old oil smelled like gas. (Previous owner states he removed carbs due to sticking float and did rebuild)

How do you check for spark? Reading the catalog mentions to not turn the bike over with a plug removed.

TIA

 

There are two more for sale in my area. 1 os stock and clean. The other looks stockish with aftermarket paint.

 

1. Fuel seeping.......may be from a stuck needle. You said you cleaned things.....but did you REPLACE things?

2. Check for spark......pull the plug out, re-connect plug wire to plug and let it hang so that the threads touch the engine AND you can still see the gap. Try turning it over. If there is spark you'll see it jump the gap. 1&4 are on the same coil, and 2&3 are on the other coil.

 

1. I didn't clean the carbs, previous owner did. I popped them open and they look fine (fine enough to try to start the engine to ensure it is worth the time instead of engine swap, no corrosion present) if the engine starts and idles without knocks or rattles then I will go to church and do a nut and bolt resto

2. I will report back.

 

Did some fiddling today.

1. I swapped the start button contact with one from another xj horn button. Now the button feels like it should and doesn't bottom out. It still didn't turn the engine over at first. Then i jumped the red/white wire from the starter solenoid to positive and the push button start works; it also works with the key off this way.

This tells me that my red/white (aka kill switch, relay, control unit) somewhere is either faulty or not making a connection. I need to trace the red/white wire and ensure all connections are clean and solid and go from there. (I also really need to invest in an electric meter, that'll have to wait for next paycheck)

2. After half a second of turning over I was greeted with a glorious backfire; echoing off the concrete wall behind the bike and surrounding me with the sound of a shotgun blast level bang within a D.C. parking garage. That made me jump a bit.

Attempted to turn the bike over more and no start so far. I am not sure if I should use any choke at all. I just hate no knowing what is going on with the carbs. How do you know if the needles are leaking?

Battery got tired from all the cranking. I will be charging it back up tomorrow as I poke around the bike some more.

3. I assume that a backfire means I have spark. (I ran out of time to check for spark. but no spark means no bang in my simple mind)

 

Glen,

Where around DC are you? I'm working off of Rt 4 in PG County and live up near Annapolis. I'd be happy to help you get it up & running one evening or weekend.

jeff

 

check the ignition fuse the red white wire runs from fuse to run/kill switch then to starter cutoff relay which controls power to the starter solinoid. but if you got a back fire it should not be a run/kill switch problem as tha switch supplies power to tci and you got a backfire. inspect the clutch safety switch in clutch perch. is the neutral light coming on?
also locate the sidestand safety and remove it that will also prevent bike from turning over

use choke to start. if battery falls below 9.8 to 10 volts tci will not fire bike will not start.
leaking needle valves will flood out carbs and fill crank case with gas check your oil level with bike on CENTERstand. to see if gas has leaked into crank case

edit sidestand to centerstand

 

The bike is in SE D.C. living at my barracks parking garage. I live in forestville 5 miles outside of D.C. It'd be awesome to have someone show me the ropes on a motorcycle. I'm more comfortable with cars; you know, one coil, one carb and a distributor. 4 carbs and two coils and all this intricate stuff has me a little lost.

I currently get the neutral light with the key turned on. The sidestand switch was broken off when I got the bike. I have a nos switch in the bag (I don't plan to install untill I do the full rebuild). I did bypass at one point with wiring. That's likely when I got the backfire. Not too sure. I need to more a little slower when I do these things and take proper notes. But to confirm; if I don't bypass the sidestand switch I won't get spark.... correct?

I thought oil level should be checked on the center stand? and not the side stand (I'm trying to understand al these nuance things). The old oil reaked of gasoline. I know this oil will need another change or two to get all the fuel residue out of the engine.


Unfortunately I am soon departing D.C. for training and won't work on the bike for a few months. I just want to get the engine to run and idle so I know it's a good engine then drain the carbs and store indoors. After I finish training I plan a full tear down and restore to like new.

Took delivery today of my RJ specific service manual (1st edition print, 1982) and an original owners manual. I also have the Haynes manual as well. So I am good on literature for now

 

remove side stand relay to bypass side stand switch.
oil is checked on centerstand my error
ohm out your ignition system pickup coils ignition coils spark plug caps.
when you take off the caps trim the wires back a little 1/4 inch to remove corriosion

picking one up this saturday

 

OK, so you're stationed at McNair, WNY, Anacostia or CC...LOL....I've worked on all the bases through my work during my career. You just need a few hours, a good battery or 12V source, a meter, some bits or wire and some hand tools. Chances are it just needs some attention to run, a full carb rebuild, valve adjust & tune to run really well! XJ is just trying to help you eliminate things that could prevent startup.

jeff

 

I'm stationed at Marine Barracks Washington D.C.

I do need to grab a meter and then I can likely get the bike running. After Saturday I should have Sun-Tues to fiddle with the bike.

Anyone going to the Charm City Mods vs. Rockers in Dundalk this weekend; Saturday? Typically a pretty good showing of vintage motorcycles and scooters.

 

Sounds like it should be a scene from Quadrophenia; Jimmy and Ace face off!

 

First of all thanks for your service!

Have you taken your MSF class yet? Being a service member I think it is mandatory before you start to ride. I think Andrews AFB has about three or four classes a year, not too sure about your location? You might need to check with some of your fellow service members and see if they can help you out with tools and maybe a temp place for the bike? I did that for the folks in the dorm that were just getting started.

Dielectric grease is a good idea on all the connections. Just be careful when you start to take apart the connectors as they are older and a little brittle. Give the wiring harness a good look over as well for any rubbing areas that might have removed the insulation off any wires. Buy or check out a multi meter from your hobby shop, friend or local Auto store.

Keep us posted with the progress.

 

New plugs added today and properly gapped. Checked for spark with none to find for cylinder 1 or 2.

Parameters:
red/wht stripe wire jumped to the positive terminal. (Bike now turns over)
2 Kickstand switch wires blu/wht and grn jumped together and to negative battery terminal
Neutral light on
kill switch set to run
key on
fuel is getting to cylinders
Attempted with clutch released and pulled.

No spark. It sucks not getting the bike running before I take it home, but I am running out of time....

By jumping the red/wht I know somewhere in the kill switch loop I am not getting a complete circuit since my start button won't turn the bike over without a direct jump to positive.

Update:
Removed both side switch and cut off switch relays which should bypass them all... no spark and still won't turnover without jumping the red/wht wore to battery positive.

Tim:
I reupped my advance course this year. Been riding for 5 years now.

 

the starter cut off relay is what sends power to the starter button through the solinoid put it back in
side stand relay removal bypasses the side stand switch
no spark on 1 and 2 would be the sparkplug caps or you need to trim 3/8 inch off the spark plug wires for 1 and 2 due to corrosion .
the yamaha uses a wasted spark system , meaning when cylinder 1 fires cylinder 4 also fires. same deal with the other coil pack cylinder 2 and 3 both fire

 

Todays lack of progress:

No spark:
I cut back the plug wires and got no results.

Bought a meter:
I checked the kill switch and I have continuity back to the right side coil. Can't find the next part of the red/wht wiring and have nothing back to the starter relay. I attempted a continuity check to any other red/wht wore and got nothing.

No neutral light:
That neutral switch sure is tucked up there. Can't get up there to do anything.

I keep finding electrical tape wraps to "fix" frayed wires.

Bike will be put in storage soon and a full teardown will happen. Then I can go through everything.

Thinking I am going to have to make a new harness. Too many random wires are frayed and taped closed. I can't get over how many electronics, relays and diodes are in the wiring of a 1982 motorcycle.

I really just want to bypass all the safety nonsense. I've ridden a lot of bikes without safety cutoffs and never had a problem.

My biggest hold back is needing a garage to dissasemble everything and go through it all. Leaving the area in a month so disassembly isn't realistic.

 

Glen, sounds like you have a plan. I too would hate to see all the taped wires and find out there is no connector under the tape or it was not soldered. Glad to hear that you have been riding for a while and you are up to date on your MSF, they are great classes.

Most of my bikes have all the safety stuff removed as well. I like to park my bikes in 1st gear as well, had on fall on me when it moved in neutral so that will not be the case again. Too bad you couldn't get her going in your time line and now she will be heading to storage. At least you will get to work on it sooner or later and strip it down to what you what to. Get her running and keep us posted.

 

Today:
Went through the starter circuit test.
1. Battery is good
2. Starter motor is good
3. Solenoid is good
4. Start button good
5. Bike harness red/w wire, no good, test is 0v
6. Cutoff relay read is .1v
Kill switch is good with continuity to the headlight. I lose the wires after that...
7. Neutral switch, continuity is broken at all times. Looks like I need to remove at least the exhaust to get to it.
8. Clutch switch is good

 

That was a good day of trouble shooting, well on your way to getting it narrowed down.

 

Starter circuit - it appears the safety circuit is deployed. To engage the starter cutoff relay you need a working neutral switch OR a working clutch AND side stand switch. You can temporarily bypass the safety circuit by installing a jumper from the R/W to R/W at the starter cutoff relay mating connector. See note below from Len on location and manual errors.

Ignition circuit - to enable the TCI and allow spark you need a working neutral switch / diode block OR a working side stand switch. This is easily temporarily disabled by removing the side stand relay, which has been suggested. However, just to be sure you have the correct relay once again see notes below from Len on location and manual errors.

"XJ650RJ Seca and XJ750 Euro models:

NOTE: according to the factory XJ650RJ Seca service manual supplement, both the headlight relay and the sidestand relay are under the tank---this is wrong!

It also shows that the ignition cut-off relay is below the TCI?---this is also wrong!

Flasher: near the steering headpipe, on right side frame rail, under the right side ignition coil.
Flasher canceller: under the rear of gas tank.
Starter motor solenoid/relay: on right hand side, attached to and behind the battery box.
Starter/Ignition cut-off relay (no color): on 650RJ and 650 Euro models, located behind self-canceller, under rear of tank (note: the drawing and the description in the service manual is wrong).
Sidestand (kickstand) relay (blue): behind the flasher relay, under the front of the tank.
Headlight relay (yellow): behind the left frame side cover, on the plastic regulator-rectifier mounting plate. (note: the drawing and the description in the service manual is wrong).
Diode block: inside the headlight housing.
Neutral switch: in a hole in the bottom of the crankcase, just "outside" of the oil pan, on the bottom of the engine, up inside a recessed "well"."

Note the reference to color. The side stand relay should be marked with a blue marking, and the corresponding harness should have blue vinyl tape to match.

The starter cutoff relay has no marking, and sometimes it is best to verify wire colors as PO's are known to place these in the wrong locations. The relay is marked:

"- small metal (original) or plastic (replacement) "cube" relay, inked 4H7-00, 4H7-01, or 12R-01 on the top face." And the wiring should be:

"Harness connector wire colors:
- on all XJ550 all models, XJ650 all models, XJ750 all non-X models, and XJ1100 models:
* Red wire with white tracer stripe
* another Red wire with white tracer stripe
* Black wire with yellow tracer stripe
* solid Light blue (sky blue) wire"

The sidestand relay can be verified also by wire color and markings:

"- has a blue paint mark or blue locking tab shroud on the bottom of it."

"Harness connector wire colors:
- on all XJ550, all 1982-84 XJ650, XJ700, XJ750 models, all XJ900, and XJ1100 models:
* Red wire with white tracer stripe
* Black wire with white tracer stripe
* Blue wire with yellow tracer stripe
* solid Black wire"

Note all the quoted information and more can be found at:

http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/the-ultimate-relay-switch-sensor-and-diodes-guide.27543/

 

Tomorrow night I'll be draining the tank and the carbs and driving the bike up on the truck to my parents place for storage.

In a few months I'll be able to strip the bike down and start the restoration.

 

i don't remember grounding this when i butchered mine

 

would be better if you

 

If I? Looks like your final words were not typed. When bypassing the safety cutoff system I still wasn't receiving spark.

 

Got the bike to my parents. In a couple weeks I'll be there waiting to go train so I'll take full day stabs at getting the bike running.

Also picked up a 70's xs750 tank to replace the tank on the xs400. It'll likely need some fab work, bit I enjoy that.

 

Currently down in Mississippi visiting the wife and putting around on a 400.



Have a used tci and harness on the way for when I get to nj. Going to start some work and try to get the seca running before it sits for a few months.

 

I’m back!

Training is over and I am returning to a normal life within the next 3 months. I finished my training and treated myself to a new toy to ride while I work on the Seca.

Here is my new ride:

This thing is huge; yet enjoyable to ride. I got it a little over a week ago and have ridden over 700 miles. In March I hope to have my Seca with me in FL and start to work on it again while I try not to go crazy making changes to my daily rider.

 

Progress!!

Carbs weren’t working.... go figure.

Sprayed carb cleaner onto open carbs and the bike runs. I popped off the headlight and with the side stand relay removed my starting system works.

Time to do some more diagnostics and figure out why my starter system finally works.

 

side stand switch bad

 

Plugged the relay back in and the headlight and it all works now. Not really sure what was holding it up.

I did notice my Tachometer isn’t working so I’ll have to figure that one out.

I’ve gone back to the bike and shifted into first, press start button and nothing. Shifted back to neutral, press start button and turns right over. Also the neutral light isn’t working either.

 

there is a clutch safety switch in the clutch lever if it is missing or failed open bike will only start in neutral as in starter will not spin. look for a green connector in head light bucket and a switch just like brake switch on clutch perch.

a jumper can be put in the connector to jump the 2 wires BUT then bike will start in gear without pulling in the clutch

 

T

Thanks!
Looks like it failed open. Will only turn over in neautral.

 

if the switch and wires are still there you could cut the wires at the lever and twist wires together to work as a jumper.

xj4ever sells replacement switches

only being able to start in neutral can be a bit inconvenient if you stall in traffic

 

Long overdue update.

Got the bike running of starter fluid as I wiggled some wires and got the bike running.

Then the tear down began. After one day I was down to a roller waiting for some friends to help get the engine out.

Repainted the frame since there was substantial paint loss on the underside, so stripped, wire wheeled, and treated any surface rust.

Everything after that was just cleaned and polished up a bit to make it look nice. Engine was painted and hopefully it stays looking good.

Safety cutoff system had broken wires from the sidestand switch and to the relay. I butchered another harness for the wires and went back to the connections to fix. I reinstalled the harness and everything worked.

Did a rebuild on the carbs taking the whole weekend to clean and once installed it started right up but I heard a chirping coming from cyl 3 intake manifold. Removed and did the inner tube repair and have new gaskets on the way. Valves were checked and all within spec. Cam chain was also adjusted. Once the intake manifold gaskets come in I can get it hopefully up running and riding.

I can’t put enough thanks to Chacal and XJ4Ever for all the parts I was able to order and how quickly they were shipped and received. Without them this could never of gotten done. As well as the wealth of information available here and the members at the ready to give it. Looking forward to a lot of riding on this beauty soon.

 

Exhaust got a vinegar bath for a week then polished as well as it’ll come out. Any remaining corrosion was treated and then polished. Also got all new exhaust gaskets from Chacal which came quickly.

Fork finish was slowly removed with a brilo pad following the factory brushing direction and then waxed. Since the bike will live inside and cleaned regularly I’ve kept the aluminum bare.

Rebuilt and refinished the master cylinder thanks to Chacal for the rebuild kit and sight glass.

 

Love the 650rj sitting right in the center of the living room!! Lol