XJ650 RJ Seca 4ko Rear Drum Brake Sticking

Xj650 4K0 rear drum brake sticking after refitted rear wheel:

Place wheel on splines
Pushed through rear spindle, washer between spindle and rear drum.
Tighten pinch bolt
Place on washer, Tighten spindle bolt.

Rear drum will not spin stuck fast.
Tried same assembly process without brake shoes no difference.

Was sure that rear drum should spin freely.

Please advise.

Gary

 

Is it in neutral?

 

I bet you forgot to put the spacer back inside the hub

 

Nice try:
Driveshaft not connected,
Good call, but yes I remembered.

 

The spacer has absolutely NOTHING to do with the driveshaft. The spacer is about three inches long and it goes inside the hub before the wheel is put on. The axle goes through it, and it keeps the drum from binding up against the housing when the axle's castle nut is tightened.

If you DID make sure that spacer is in there, then the only other thing that it can be is that your brakes are locked up or jammed.

I'm still betting that spacer is missing.

Dave

 

Driveshaft not connected was answering is it in neutral, solution.

I have fitted the spacer honest, when I refitted the rear wheel without the brake shoes the plate still stuck, wheel turns fine.

Gary.

 

Ok, then explanation accepted.

So, thenbyour brakes are binding.

1. Either the actuator pivot shaft is dry and needs to be greased

2. Your brake linings are way too thick

3. You don't have the shoes right down into the groove at the top center pivot

You'll have to pull it apart and look.

once you have it apart, if you're not sure… Let me know I'll give you my cell number and you can send me pictures, I'll look for you

 

Many thanks,
Will strip it back down tomorrow, and give it another go.

Gary.

 

Keep me posted

 

I believe you are supposed to tighten the spindle nut first then the pinch bolt last. Seems counterintuitive to me but I believe that is the correct sequence.

Somebody will correct me if I am wrong.

 

Correct, but if you tighten the pinch bolt first, you'll stress the swingarm. That doesn't pull the drum in tighter.

 

Had a look in Haynes:
Removal is remove split pin undo spindle nut slacken pinch bolt the displace and withdraw. I assume refitting is reversed.

Gary.

 

I have now refitted wheel many times and even fitted spare wheel and drum and no difference.

Had a think about it and done some rudimental drawings, and have concluded the drum brake plate can't move as it is fixed between the washer and the inner race of the wheel bearing.
The wheel moves freely on the outer bearing but the inner stays fixed.

Spindle - washer - outer drum plate - wheel bearing - inner wheel spacer - wheel bearing - wheel bearing - hub spacer - hub - washer - spindle Nut.
Are all fixed under 77 lbs/ft

That the way I see it, But could be wrong.

Gary

 

So I see no pictures of the inside yet......

But here's another question---a long shot, cuz I ain't see anything.......

Did you have it off to replace the tire? If so, did you put a the correct size tire on, or did you put one on that's a bit wider? If wider, the tire will rub up against the swingarm in the 'clearance notch' and as you tighten things, it will draw that tighter against, hence not allowing the rim to turn.
Pics, please......mostly I want to see the spacer....I keep coming back to that

 

All fitted, See Pics.

Just new shocks to fit,

Gary.

 

The only thing that should prevent the brake plate from roating is the brake stay (the bar that runs from the plate to near the swingam pivot). If you remove the brake stay the brake plate will rotate (under braking, which is not a good thing).

If you're talking about the plate not being able to move laterally (along the axle), that is correct IF the spacer is of the correct length. Spacers can wear, and cause binding (not common, but it can happen). It is also vitally imortant to torque the axle nut before tightning the pinch bolt. Not doing so can somtimes also lead to binding (and always lead to accelerated bearing wear) as the swingarm will be drawn in, slightly canting the axle in the bore and placing undue pressure on the bearings (axially).

To clear up some nomenclature; the brake drum is part of the wheel casting; the brake plate holds the brake shoes and covers the brake drum when installed.

 

Did fit a new tyre,
Bridgestone BT 45 120/90 18.
But the wheel turns Ok, it's the drum plate that will not move, had a think about it earlier and don't think it should move, put it all together to day will have a look at it again tomorrow.

Thanks for your input.

Gary.

 

Once everything is tightened down, the drum plate BETTER NOT MOVE!!!!

If you now mean that the plate won't turn for you to be able to re-connect the stabilizer bar, this is simple....loosen the castle nut and the pinch bolt so you CAN turn the plate far enough around to re attach the stabilizer bar, then tighten everything back up. Notice the the name of that bar.....STABILIZER bar----that makes sure that the brake plate doesn't turn under braking pressure.

NOW, maybe we got that cleared up.....

 

Well.....now is see the pic. Now ai don't know what you're talking about. The stabilizer bar is attached, so of course the brake plate won't turn. It CANT. So , please be very specific. what EXACTLY won't turn?

First post said 'rear drum will not spin stuck fast'

That's where all the confusion is stemming from.

When everything is connected correctly:
The wheel (the drum is part of the wheel) turns freely.
The brake backing plate does NOT turn.

The ONLY motion you should see is the brake lever move when you depress the brake pedal and it pulls the rod to pull the lever. The lever turns, and the cam on the inside pushes the bottom of the shoes apart to apply the brake.

 

Not sure what "nomenclature" means
But I suspect your telling me off for callings things by different names.

 

We keep saying the same thing over and over to you........
So please start all over again, and tell us EXACTLY what is not turning, and what IS turning

 

I think we have a solution, K-Moe has sorted things out. I've been calling things the wrong name.

Sorry! For the confusion,

So it's the brake plate that will not rotate, (move) when spindle is tightened. This is Without the stabilizer bar connected.

The Drum which is in the wheel moves freely.

Gary.

 

Ok, so--- that's NORMAL. As I said above, you need to loosen things back up so you CAN rotate it enough to hook up the stabilizer bar BEFORE you tighten the axle.

Order of reinstallation:
Slip spacer into hub
Put brake assembly into the wheel
Put wheel assembly back on splines
Insert axle, washers, nut ( don't tighten yet)
Rotate brake plate and reconnect stabilizer
Re-connect brake rod/spring/barrel/nut/lever
NOW tighten castle nut to draw axle in snug
Tighten pinch bolt
Don't forget cotterpin on stabilizer bolt
Don't forget cotterpin on axle castle nut

The axle WILL tighten up the brake plate so you can't move it. BUT-- I'll tell you, it WILL rotate ( and jam everything up) when you step on the brake IF YOU DONT HAVE THE STABILIZER HOOKED UP. SO.... that needs be hooked up FIRST, before tightening the axle.

So finally, if the brake plate is hooked up to the stabilizer, the brake rod is hooked up, the axle is tightened, then the wheel should be able to rotate, nothing else should move. NOW you adjust the brake pedal travel.

 

I'm not telling you off. I'm clarifying so that we are all understanding which parts we're talking about. Without clarity, this problem can't be solved.

 

Cheers Guys,
Thanks for your help,

Gary.

 

Nomenclature= names and terms. Fancy teacher talk for "words".

 

Update?

 

Sure. It still means the same thing.

 

ROTFLMAO

 

I am having trouble with the rear wheel of the bike I have been building which is an XJ750 in scrambler form


I have put new bearings in the wheel and reassembled it as per the parts digram but when I tighten the wheel to the 77 lb the wheel is solid and will not turn.


just to try it out I have put the old bearings back in, taken the break shoes but it still locks up.


I have the spacer in between the two sets of bearing but the only thing that is not to clear is what function does the flange spacer perform, is it just to keep the large spacer central as mine just slides along the length of the tube.


Unfortunately I took the wheel off about a year ago and can not remember where or which way the flanged spacer was placed .



I have managed to strip and rebuild the engine and carbs using the excellent write ups on this site so I am hoping that someone can have an answer for this issue

 

all the spacers on the axle keep it from over tightening and locking up the wheel. the spacer flange spacer faces the brake plate helps with axle installation alinement the little spacer flange is mounted on the spacer and has changed sizes over the manufacture process .

 

|I have the tube spacer , a thin spacer which has a turned up edge which slides along the tube spacer and a thick washer that I have put on the outside of the drum .

Should there be another spacer?

I have also noted that when I tighten up the spindle the holes in the spindle go half way through the swinging arm near the pinch bolt so you can not get a rod in the hole to stop it moving round if it turns.

 

yes there is one on the nut side of axle
look at this assembly drawing
https://www.yamahapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/yam/500421d9f8700209bc787407/rear-wheel

#27 and #24

 

see the 2 spacers (washers)

 

That is the drawing that I have been looking at and I have all the items on the drawing.

I just can not figure out what is causing the wheel to nip up so tight .

I did think that the replacement bearings might be slightly different but the same happens when I put the original ones back in.

 

I have built up a spare swinging arm and drive unit to try my wheel in and this also locks up so I am none the wiser.

Would anyone happen to know if the thin spacer with the flange is supposed to pack out the bearing or just keep the large spacer central within the hub.

 

flange is just keep the spacer from falling flat in the wheel when the axle is removed,

 

Thanks that has solved that issue .I think I will put a shim behind the bearing just to see if that works .

When I tighten the spindle to 76 lb the brake drum will not move in fact when I try to turn the wheel the spindle starts turning.

 

This is the issue. In pic #1 the cotter pin hole is too far through the castle nut. Hope this helps.

Gary H.

 

Are you tightening the axle nut before you tighten the pinch bolt (on the right side of the swingarm), or after you tighten the pinch bolt?
Do you have the thick washer under the castle nut?
Better yet, do you have photos of both sides of the assembly as it sits on your machine?

 

hes was talking about the other end of the axle the unthreaded side

 

I have no pinch bolt in at the moment as per you previous instructions on putting the rear wheel back in.

What I have been doing is starting from the brake side the spindle the thick washer which then goes through the brake plate behind that the bearing then the spacer with the centralising flange washer

two bearings on the drive side then a smaller washer that will only fit over the thread then the castle nut.

When I tighten the wheel up the holes for the split pin are past the end of the castle nut.

If I back the nut of so that the wheel can turn it feels a bit notchy but as I have not worked on a shaft drive before I do not know if this is normal.

I did try a 2mm longer spacer inside the wheel but that did not work.

I have not stripped down the drive shaft unit but I did remove it to alter the frame and have the metal work powder coated.

As the same problem occurs when I fit the wheel to the bike or to a another drive shaft unit I am getting a bit stumped as to what is happening.

I have been using a Haynes manual a parts PDF but mostly this site to work on the bike which has been ongoing for over a year and I need to push it on to get it finished for the summer.

 

When I tighten the wheel up the holes for the split pin are past the end of the castle nut.

this is not unusual for the hole to be past the castle nut. what you do is put the cotter (split) pin in sideways . then you bend it into the slots on the nut i have a photo some place

 

like this much neater

 

The holes on my spindle go about 1/8'' past the nut. and the hole on the brake side almost disappears inside the pinch bolt section.
If I back the nut off until the wheel can spin the castle nut is more or less only hand tight.

I am struggling to work out what stops the wheel being pulled tight towards the nut side of the spindle as I an used to bikes that have a spindle with a nut at both ends and spacers that will not allow the wheel to be locked no matter how tight you do up the axel nut.

 

maybe the spindle(axle) is not the correct one I will pull mine and measure it as well as the thickness of washers and nut.
if I recall the nut use for the axle has changed to a less taller version on newer bikes but that would not cause an over tightened situation just a more exposed hole for the split (cotter) pin

 

Interesting development I do not have a spacer on the right side of my spindle (axle). my castle nut is flush with the end of the axle, castle nut is 15.4 to 15.6 mm tall.
spacer on nut side is 4.5 mm thick.
there is plenty of room for a rod to be inserted into axle to aide in its removal.
Spindle is 320mm long end to end. 247mm threaded end to end of small diameter of axle ,73 mm long on the right side end larger diameter section.
my brake plate has a steel bushing init where spindle boss meets brake plate.

so I may be missing a spacer or there was never one there to start with.
Both my 750's have a right side washer between spindle and brake plate.

now I have more reasearch to do.
any 650 seca owners out there would you look to see if you have the right side spacer?

 

Have you, refitted the spacer inside the drive hub?

 

from xj4ever catalog
axles
HCP4799 OEM rear wheel AXLE SHAFT, for all XJ650, all XJ700, all 1981-83 XJ750 models, XJ750-D, and XJ750-X models. Does not include any accessory parts (washers, spacers, collars, etc.).

HCP4810 OEM rear wheel AXLE SHAFT, for all XJ750RL and XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models. Does not include any accessory parts (washers, spacers, collars, etc.).

castle nut
HCP4801 OEM rear wheel axle shaft FLANGED CASTLE NUT, for all XJ550, FJ600, XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models. NOTE: this nut is the correct 22mm, dark-phosphate plated version of this nut as originally fitted onto all XJ550, XJ700, and XJ750-X models. All XJ650, XJ750 non-X, and XJ900 models used the same type of nut, but it had a smaller (19mm) hex, a smaller diameter flange, and natural finish. This larger nut will also fit these models properly.

castle nut washer
HCP2328 OEM rear wheel axle shaft castle nut WASHER, for all XJ650, all XJ700, all XJ750, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models.

spacer washer
HCP4803 OEM rear wheel axle shaft COLLAR, for all XJ650, all XJ700, all XJ750, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models. This is the 5mm thick spacer washer that is fitted on the right side of the brake backing plate (all models except XJ900RK) and on the far right end of the axle shaft (XJ900RK models).

FLANGED SPACER RING

HCP1795 OEM rear wheel axle shaft FLANGED SPACER RING, for all XJ550, FJ600, XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models. This is the incredibly thin flanged shimming washer on the right side of the spacer tube, behind the right side wheel bearing. A necessary part and one that is easily damaged during bearing removal or forgotten during replacement. NOTE: the original "spacer flange" is larger in diameter than this replacement, but the original is trapped in a secondary dwell cut into the wheel below the bearing pocket on the right side. The replacement does the same job; however, it needs to be installed further onto the spacer tube so that it misses the "land" for the original and just does its spacing off the inside of the casting itself. Then it works fine. It's only there to make the tube line up with the axle.
SPACER TUBE
HCP21015 Aftermarket rear wheel center hub SPACER TUBE this 2-1/2" long tube spacer fits into the wheel hub, and the HCP1795 flanged spacer ring fit onto the right end of it. For all XJ550 Seca, XJ650, XJ700, and all XJ750 (except XJ750RL models), Each:


HCP21016 Aftermarket rear wheel center hub SPACER TUBE this 2-1/2" long tube spacer fits into the wheel hub, and the HCP1795 flanged spacer ring fit onto the right end of it. For all XJ550 Maxim, 1984 XJ750RL Seca, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models, Each:
$ 21.95


HCP12325 OEM final drive output/wheel clutch hub SPACER TUBE this almost 3 long tube spacer fits on the wheel side of the final drive housing, into the splined clutch hub on the left side of the wheel. If this spacer is missing, you will not be able to align the rear wheel properly side-to-side within the swingarm. For all XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models. Each: