To part out or not to part out- that's the question

Bought an 82 xj650 about a month ago, was great when parked 3 years ago and now not so good. I stripped it to the frame and started cleaning it all up.

Well i got it back together about a week ago and long story short i cant get it to turn over but im sure its an electrical problem.

During this time I bought a ninja and decided to sell the xj once i got it running. But recent events have made me ponder parting it out.

All the peices are there and in decent condition I just cant get the dang thing to turn over. I bought it for $350 and would like to be able to make at least a little bit if i parted it out. (was planning on selling for $1200).

So any advice? Thanks

 

by the way i have all the parts including 2 seats and i painted the gas tank and it is in excellent condition.

 

First be a little more specific about the problem. Does the starter turn over at all? Can you hear the selenoid click? Does the neutral light come on indicating that the ignition has power?
If the starter does turn over then does it have spark to the plugs? Have you checked the primary and secondary resistance on the coils?
Don't runout and do all these just be more specific and we'll walk you down the most logical path. Also, Welcome aboard! You are amoung gearheads and friends!

 

When I hook jumper cables up to the bike battery from the truck battery i can make the following things happen

1. horn tries really hard to work
2. i hear a click on the left side near the regulator whenever it recieves power through the cables
3. The backlight on the cluster lights up

thats about it, i have no lights on the bike currently and the nuetral light doesn't light up. When i hit the starter button absolutely nothing happens no click no nothing.

Is it possible to ground one jumper cable on the frame and touch the hot side to the starter? Should it turn over if i do that?

 

Yes that should work but why do it? If the rest of the electricals aren't working right then I would work on them first. I will leave this one to the electrical gurus. This is my weak point. But I would check my frame and engine grounds followed by the fuse box. They are notorious for trouble on these bikes.

 

Jumping the starter would be a good thing so long as it isn't attached to the bike at this point. Do you even know if the engine isn't seized? I would pull the left hand cover and turn it over by hand with just a teaspoon of oil in each cylinder for lube to make sure it will turn. Then try the starter trick. I would also suspect the starter button is corroded, I'd pull it and ensure it is not. Then test the starter soloniod to make sure it is passing the voltage along. I would also check for spark with the plugs out after you have checked everything else out (two reasons for that, one, the excess oil will be blown out of the cylinders and, two, the motor spins more easily with out the sparkplugs installed, easing the load on the battery). The fuse block is the weak link in all of this of course and a swift inspection of the fuses first chance would be wise. We've all heard about the fellows who pull out their hair and gnash their teeth after hours of chasing their tail only to find a blown/poor contacting fuse. Give the suggestions above a shot and let us know how it all falls out.

 

ok well i guess i will hold on a little bit longer. I just get aggravated with that stupid thing when it wont do what i want it to. Anyways

PPPPPAAAAAAATTTTTTTTIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEENNNNNNNCCCCCCCEEEEEE

 

You couldn't have said it better. Set back and breath slowly when you get frustrated. Remember to "come to kindly terms with your ass for it bears you" (Quoted from Poor Richards almanac or How To Keep Your Volkswagon Beatle Alive For The Complete Idiot, a classic book any mechanic should have for bedtime reading, I do, really!). Have a brew and a few smokes, then come back to the issue (don't ever smoke around bikes when working on them, flash fires are a very nasty possibility if you have fuel leaks). I'd throw in a helping hand were I closer bud, but fate is not so kind, so here we are. We can get through this, just take your time, it'll be worth it in the end.

 

Here's a starter circuit diagram for a xj650, from a Yamaha Service Manual.

For the starter to work you need:
1. the key on
2. the engine stop switch in the run position
3. the bike in neutral or the clutch engaged
4. the starting circuit cut off relay engaged ( happens with step 3 )
5. the starter push button switch to be conducting
6. the starter relay functional
7. good fuses, and connections
I don't see any reference to a side stand switch as the xj750 has.

The click you hear when power is applied sounds like the starting circuit cut off relay (shown in the middle of the diagram) is engaging. The Yamaha Manual shows this on the L.H. side level with the bottom of the battery. It does not offer any testing methods for this relay.

Jumping power directly to the starter will turn the starter over, but as Robert said, I would turn the engine over manually (with the plugs out) first just to make sure it will spin! At least you will know the starter works this way.

Hope this helps!

 

I know this sounds insulting to any ones intelligence, but it happened to me along time ago...did you check the kill switch? A long ,long time ago,( Ithink it was my first street bike) I couldnt get my bike started, it wasnt doing anything, no clicks , nothing. I spent a whole after noon calling shops asking if they could help me from the phone. Nothing worked. Until this one guy started by saying; " first flip your switch to " Run" position"... and it hit me right there and then. Man I felt stupid! I never ever killed my bikes power with the kill switch. That switch was almost non existing to me.As for my brother, he used it all the time. He had apparently took my bike out for a spin and when he came back used the engine "stop" button. That was relieving to me at the time, but man did I feel DUMB.

 

well my kill switch is stuck in the on position.

I hooked it up to my truck battery via hot directly to the starter and ground on the kickstand. And i got absolutely nothing.

Im going to try to turn it over by hand today and let yall know how it goes

 

Robista, your story is familiar to me, did it myself rolling down the highway back in '89. Felt VERY foolish after 20 minutes of hunting for the cause of the backfiring and shutdown. But a worthy thought, it may be the issue, glad you thought of it. Nick, your efforts are, as always, way above and beyond the call, a big thanks from me personally for your input! I gotta get my scanner back on line. Your a hard act to follow.

 

well i pulled the side cover today and it will turn over by hand. It was really hesitant at first but after a little oil in cylinders 1 and 4 (can't find my plug socket) it turns over fine by hand. So on to other things

Robert you say i should pull the starter off the bike and hook it up to the jumper cables?

 

Not if the motor turns freely by hand. Best left in place. You should be able to jump it in it's location (I've never needed to but the primary lead is right there on top). I'm mighty glad to hear it isn't seized. Try to get it to turn over now without putting the plugs back in place. You can check for spark at the same time by hooking up the spark plugs into the boots and grounding the plugs. If your going to spin the motor without the spark plugs plugged in, you should disconnect the coils or the pickup so you don't burn out the TCI.

 

ok so forgive my newbieness but you are suggesting i leave the spark plugs out and using the jumper cables ground it on the bike frame then hit the post on the back of the starter with the hot side?

 

Initially, yes. That will tell you if the starter is sound and the chain isn't off the gears. Admittedly, this is chasing the problem from the other end, but it will get you answers just a little differently. Nick has thrown a nice trouble shooting chart together for you. You should pick an end and follow it to its conclusion. I usually start at the battery and work the starting button circuit back to the starter, not the other way around (call me old fashioned).

 

Well i tried what i was talking about with the jumper cables and got absolutely nothing.

 

sounds like the starter is suspect. Most likely it is the brushes, however it is possible there is a break or short in the armature.

What i would do from here is remove the starter motor from the bike, and open it. Clean the inside if necesary, and remove the armature core. Check the brushes for excessive wear.
Look at the armature and make sure there are no thrown windings or damage to the insulation, or the commutator. Also check the field coils for thrown solder from the armature. Check the commutator and windings for shorts and grounds using a multi meter or self powered test light. To test for shorts place one lead on one of the commutator bars (the thing at the end that the brushes contact) there should be no continuity to another section of the commutator. To check for grounds place one test lead on the commutator and one on the starter shaft, or armature core, there should once again be no continuity.

If armature is ok, test field coils by testing for continuity between the bat. terminal, and the insulated or "hot" brush, there should be minimal resistance. Check for continuity between the bat. terminal and the starter housing, should be no connection. also make sure shaft spins freely when seated in both bushings.

 

Starter issue for sure now, but you mentioned a lack of any sound when trying to turn it over with the starter button. This lack of sound indicates that the solenoid is not being energized or the solenoid is bad. I would still check each component one piece at a time (not to much trouble, the whole circuit is readily exposed for troubleshooting). Brian has placed your starter check out in a nutshell, looks good too. Kudos Brian.

 

finally got out there and worked on it today. I pulled the starter off it and hooked it up to the battery and voila it decides to work. Dang this bike hates me. Then I put it back on the bike and now with hooking the starter up directly to the bike i can get it to turn over with the starter. Victory dance ensues

So I guess I'm just going to start tracing through everything. Im getting a click now when I turn on the key, hook up the cables or move the battery around when only the ground is connected but other than that nothing.

 

It sounds like the type of problem a "gentle" tap with an appropriate sized hammer would help. We actually used to fix radios with this method back in my early years as a maintainer. Still works too. It of course is only successful if the problem is a light seating problem with a contact (take the hint, clean the contacts, saves the problem from coming back sooner).

 

a quick rap with a hammer is also a good way to make a bike with worn brushes start, even after it wont start any more. Ofcourse this only works for so long as i realized, after riding my baby 1500 miles with the hammer method she quit on me down the street... whew! tlak about luck