1. Hello Guest. You have limited privileges and you can't "SEARCH" the forums. Please "Log In" or "Sign Up" for additional functionality. Click HERE to proceed.

Xj650 Turbo $400, running, but.... Wont shut off?

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by grasscutter, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. grasscutter

    grasscutter New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Recently picked up a 1982 XJ650 Turbo.

    PO Stopped riding it about 2 years ago due to typical fuseblock issue.
    He's an electrician by trade (more on that later...), and started to wire in, some in-line fuses for each circuit.
    After a few attempts, he stopped. Drained the tank & carbs (thank god!), and parked it.

    Started going through it yesterday:
    -got brakes unstuck & flushed. Will rebuild them at a later date.
    -was 1 Qt low on oil.
    -Checked rear drive.
    -added fuel to tank & carbs.
    -pulled his glass type in-line fuse holders and installed plug-in type.
    -pulled battery from another motorcycle, and installed in the turbo.

    Bike fired right up!!
    Let it idle for about 10 min and get nice & warm!
    Tons of black wet spooge came out the left side exhaust, but as it warmed up that all went away.
    No weird noise, no ticking valves, no cam chain slap. All good!

    But. Here's the but....
    There is definitely something goofy he did, but I can't figure out the solution.
    1- I can start it without the key.
    2-only way to turn it off, is hit kill switch. (dash lights still stay lit)
    3- 3 of the 4 circuits seem straight forward. 1-Red w/ white strip, 2-brown, 3-Red w/ yellow stripe.
    (lights, signals, horn, etc. all work correctly)
    4- for the 4th circuit, the main 20A fuse, he tied it in, in an odd way, that I can't see how to undo.

    The circuit in question, I'm pointing to what looks like he tapped into one red wire for power.
    If I take that apart, where do I get power?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

    Messages:
    8,866
    Likes Received:
    1,780
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The room where it happened
    Put it back to the stock condition on the fusebox...........we have both the original style (glass fuses) as well as 6-circuit replacements that use the modern blade-type fuses.

    The basic outline of the wiring system is that the thick red wire for the MAIN circuit (from the battery) goes directly to the ignition (key) switch, and a thick brown wire leaves the ignition switch and goes right back to the fusebox, and this wire is then split into 3 separate wires, each one powering the other 3 circuits in the fusebox (SIGNALS, IGNITION, HEADLIGHTS).

    My guess is that he has somehow tapped into the MAIN wire and is constantly powering some of the other circuits from it, thus by-passing the key switch wiring and function.
     
  3. grasscutter

    grasscutter New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    He already threw the old fuseblock away.
    I plan to install the correct fuseblock, (and numerous other items) after I make sure it fully runs and drives.

    I slightly understand your answer, but not exactly how to do it.

    I have a 1982 XJ650 Seca non-turbo.
    Will have to pull that out from back of garage, and see if any similarity that'll help get this done.
     
  4. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    13,199
    Likes Received:
    3,854
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Great North Woods
    wiring diagram
     

    Attached Files:

  5. grasscutter

    grasscutter New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Thanks. I've got that.
    Don't have wire diagram skills.
     
  6. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

    Messages:
    8,866
    Likes Received:
    1,780
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The room where it happened
    Water comes into your house on one main pipe (typically from the street, from the county main water system).

    This MAIN water supply then splits off into individual CIRCUITS that feed various "devices" (toilets 1,2 and 3; sinks 1, 2,3, and 4; showers 1 and 2; dishwasher, outside garden hose spigots, etc.). Each "device" has a individual water supply pipe ("wires") running to them, and each device also has a DRAIN ("ground") which allows the output from each "device" to return the water (power) back to where it came from (when the "device" is being operated).

    Unlike with water, though, in an electrical distribution system, if there is no DRAIN (ground), then the device will not operate. Water devices (sinks, etc.) can operate without a drain, it'll make a mess, sure, but the "power" (the water) CAN flow thru the device even if a drain (ground) is not present. IN THE ELECTRICAL WORLD, THERE MUST BE A GROUND OR NO POWER WILL FLOW, even if the device is turned "on"......

    If all of the water pipes, running to each device in your house were of a different color (and all the drains were painted black), then this would be what you would see in a wiring diagram (it would be called a piping diagram).
     
    Franz and XJ550H like this.
  7. grasscutter

    grasscutter New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Thanks. I understand how plumbing works.
    Even though I can unclog my sink drain, does not mean I can read an architects plan, and lay out new plumbing system for my whole house.

    And those different colored "pipes" are all behind your walls, (or in this case, wrapped in conduit tubing & tape).
    Not going to pull the entire wiring harness to run through each wire on an electrical diagram.
    That doesn't sound efficient to me.
     
  8. grasscutter

    grasscutter New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Any Turbo owners available to snap a couple pics of what I need?
     
  9. Bluegray57

    Bluegray57 Active Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    US
    A multi meter can be your friend
     
    Franz likes this.
  10. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,646
    Likes Received:
    1,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Scotland UK.
    Just trying to help you but the point is that with a multimeter set on continuity when you touch the two probes together an alarm sounds so you can put one probe on a connection on the harness and put the other probe on the other end of the same wire, leapfrogging the wires so to speak. The multimeter means checking can be done without disrupting the harness at all.
     
  11. grasscutter

    grasscutter New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Ok. I'll bite.
    What circuits will have continuity?
    What other circuits should I not have continuity?
     
  12. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

    Messages:
    8,866
    Likes Received:
    1,780
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The room where it happened
    It's hard to tell from your 2nd picture, not all the wires are visible and your hand is in the way!

    But like I said, I see that thin red wire (center of the picture) that is spliced into what appears to be the MAIN circuit, so that thin red wire is getting power ALL of the time. Which explains why:

    a) you can start it w/o the key...............the ignition circuit is powered all the time, not just when the key switch is rotated
    b) dash lights stay lit.......perhaps the same reason.

    Remember: the big thick red wire from the battery goes thru a fuse and then directly to the ignition switch. A brown wire comes out of the ignition switch and is then split into 3 wires (brown, red/yellow tracer stripe, red/white tracer stripe) and those three wires goes into 3 individual fuses, and then the same 3 color of wires comes "out" of their fuses, and go on to power their individual components.

    I'm thinking that maybe there was a problem with the key switch or it's electrical connector shell, and so to by-pass that problem, the previous owner (an electrician, you say?) simply "hot-wired" from the main power supply to (at least) the ignition circuit (red/white tracer stripe) wire. This by-pass could have occurred right there, at the fusebox wires, or it could have happened under the ignition switch itself (at its plastic connector), or both, or somewhere else, or.......something completely different Is going on. Hard to diagnose from 500 miles away!
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  13. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,173
    Likes Received:
    1,485
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nothern Indiana
    If you have a manual there is wiring diagram in back look at , factory wires are color coded , looks like a hack job using all the same color my pet peave , working on aircraft for 30 plus years, I make sure it is done same as airworthiness . I would suggest buying several rolls of wire , brown,red,blue,white,green most common match up colors with wiring diagram .
     
    Franz and chacal like this.
  14. grasscutter

    grasscutter New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    A colored diagram would be a bit more helpful.
    I've got a black & white reprint. So no help there.

    Yes, mentioned previously that the current wiring is temporary, to get it running.
    Fuseblock will be replaced correctly.

    The wires I'm blocking with my hand, are 3 circuits that are not in question, and are being blocked purposely.
    According to PO, he stopped riding due to fuseblock issue, not due to ignition switch.
    Although... time will tell, if there are other electrical issues.

    Right now, I agree, it is related to the solid red wire.

    The little 3-way junction that I'm pointing to, is what I'm questioning: is that a factory crimp?
    Doesn't look like it to me.

    Ordered a used wiring harness off e*bay, will dissect it & see what should go where.
    Should have it sometime this week.
     
  15. Bluegray57

    Bluegray57 Active Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    US
    The diagram posted has the color codes listed. The small letters indicate color. Colored diagrams are not typically produced by the manufacturer. I believe it was already pointed out that the splice is not factory if i read Chacal's comments correctly. Wiring diagrams are not that difficult to read. Print several copies and use a highlighter to follow the circuits you sre interested in. Makes it a tad easier to follow the connections. Also, lines crossing do not indicate a connection. Connections are indicated by the black dots.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
    Jetfixer likes this.
  16. grasscutter

    grasscutter New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Don't have any color ink to print.
    Rarely use color for printing, so stopped buying $$ color cartridges which end up drying up from no use.

    The highlighter idea is good. Will try that.
    Ok. Good info on the what is / is not a connection. Did not know that.
     
  17. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    13,199
    Likes Received:
    3,854
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Great North Woods
  18. ManBot13

    ManBot13 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,592
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Fairfax, VA
    Listen to Chacal, he has it right. I've re-wired my fuse box on the Turbo, and have been elbow deep in Turbo wiring.
    1. You need a 20A fuse from the RED Wire from the battery to the RED wire on the harness that goes to the Key Switch. Unplug the key switch and Rectifier/Regulator, and verify continuity on the harness end of the key switch plug RED wire to the RED harness wire mentioned above.
    2. The Thick BROWN wire (should be 12 or 14 Gauge, thicker than the other circuits) comes from the key switch, and in the harness will split into 3 smaller (16 AWG?) BROWN wires, each one which will plug into one side of a 10A fuse for the Ignition, Signal, and Head circuits. The other side of each of the 10A fuses go to the circuits themselves in the harness. Again, you can test for continuity between the key switch BROWN wire and harness BROWN wires with the Rectifier/Regulator unplugged
    If I were you, I'd buy a blade style fuse box from Chacal, FASTON F-Type terminals, and the appropriate crimping tool. You WILL be doing a lot of wiring work on a 36 y/o Turbo (ask me how I know), so you might as well start learning now.
     
    Jetfixer likes this.
  19. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,208
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Just North of Annapolis MD
    I'll be happy to snap some pics for you......but these guys advising you, are the cream of this forum.....I'd listen....

    Let me know bout the pics...

    jeff
     
  20. grasscutter

    grasscutter New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Ok, been a crazy rainy week, and been working on this outside.
    Finally got a dry day and did a few more things.
    (am still waiting on the used Turbo wiring harness to show up)

    Small fuel issue has developed:
    -Fuel gauge showing approx 1/4 tank.
    -Bike off, fuel on. No leaks, no drips.
    -Start bike, its running, fuel running out of somewhere. (looks like out of float bowl overflows. Haven't been able to verify, as it comes out at a pretty good stream)
    -Hit kill switch, bike stops running, leaks stop too.

    Fuel pressure regulator?
     

Share This Page