Valve Clearance Check

Hi,

I have an 82 Yamaha XJ750J 4cylinder M.C. and would like to check my valve clearances...

To first check the clearance on any given valve, and then whether the clearance is to small or to large, I'd have to remove the shim to see what size is stamped on the underside of that shim, to know what size shim to replace it with!

However, I don't have a ready supply of shims to do any proper replacement at the same time. So therfore, I'll just continue to go on to each remaining valve/shim for a reading and see what size shims are located under each of those. As possibly I could relocate, reuse and shift these shims around to other valves for the proper clearances, and maybe only have to repurchase 2 or3 new shims out of the total of 8...

My question is; Can I start by feeler gaugeing one valve at a time, then take out that shim to read the stamping clearance on the bottom, then without replacing that shim, move on to the next valve, with no problem from rotating the engine while that shim or shims are out of their shim buckets?

Otherwise, it would appear to be double or triple the work if the below steps have to be repeated several times before you finally get all the correct shims in their proper valve buckets to obtain a correct finale clearance reading on each valve...........

(1) Check clearance with cam lobe off the shim
(2) Rotate engine again to hold down shim bucket with tool
(3) Rotate the engine again off the shim to give clearance to remove shim
(4) Take out shim to read the value stamping on the bottom
(5) Then put shim back in the valve bucket before going to the next valve, That is, IF IT WOULD NOT DAMAGE THE BUCKETS OR VALVES TO ROTATE THE ENGINE WITH OUT HAVING THE SHIMS IN THEIR BUCKETS WHILE GOING TO THE NEXT VALVE FOR A FEELER GAUGE READING ???

(6) Otherwise, each shim will be taken out for a reading, put back in to rotate the engine, then later taken out again, to be replaced with the proper size shim?

Maybe I went into to much detail, but the bottom line is;

CAN THE ENGINE BE TURNED OVER BY HAND WITHOUT HAVING VALVE SHIMS IN THEIR BUCKETS AND NOT HURT THE BUCKETS, VALVES OR THE ENGINE IN GENERAL???

Thank you for your expertise and experience to properley answer what might just be a simple situation to remedy.

Bob

 

YES! You have to replace the shims each time!!

YES!! More work, but you only have to do it once every 10-20K miles.

AND BESIDES!! the effort you're describing is a minimal part of the entire workload; removing and especially replacing the valve cover and gasket is the really time-consuming part!

You'll probably also find that only a few shims needs replacing, unless the motor is either really old, or had some real problems in the past, and the valve adjustment has never been done before. Remember....if you measure the clearance and it's "in spec", then you don't need to remove that shim anyway (you won't know what size it is, of course, but as long as it's in spec, who cares?).

Other helpful hints:

You should remove all the spark plugs before rotating the engine over (with a 19mm wrench), and make SURE you rotate it in the proper direction to avoid having the cam lobe whack the shim bucket tool!

You should alwas measure the clearances when the engine is cold, as in "overnight cold", not just "cold enough to not burn my hands" cold......

Also, Yamaha recommends that you do NOT use a magnetic probe to get the shims to pop out of their buckets, as this can magnetize the shim slightly and cause it to "stick" to the cam lobe slightly. That's what they say. Could be true. Although I think the shim would be just as likely to "stick" the shim bucket, also.......

 

Chacal,

Thank you so much for your answer to my question, along with the additional comments.

Also, do you have experience with a good place to get these 29mm shims at a good price that you can recommend?

Thanks again!

 

I'll be surprised if Chacal doesn't have them :!:

Just in case though, you can use THESE shims.

 

I do have them, and they're in stock!

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... t=135.html


VALVETRAIN PARTS:


z) OEM Yamaha VALVE SHIMS, all sizes 2.00 through 3.20, fits all Yamaha XJ models EXCEPT XJ700-X models.

$11.50 each
or
any 5 shims (any mix of sizes) for $55.00


HCP248A OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.00
HCP248B OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.05
HCP248C OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.10
HCP248D OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.15
HCP248E OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.20
HCP248F OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.25
HCP248G OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.30
HCP248H OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.35
HCP248J OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.40
HCP248K OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.45
HCP248L OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.50
HCP248M OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.55
HCP248N OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.60
HCP248P OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.65
HCP248Q OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.70
HCP248R OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.75
HCP248S OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.80
HCP248T OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.85
HCP248U OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.90
HCP248V OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 2.95
HCP248W OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 3.00
HCP248X OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 3.05
HCP248Y OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 3.10
HCP248Z OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 3.15
HCP248AA OEM Yamaha Valve Shim 3.20



aa) Aftermarket Yamaha VALVE SHIMS, all sizes 2.00 thru 3.10, these are the correct 29mm diameter shims with 90-degree squared edges, and are NOT Suzuki shims. Fits all Yamaha XJ models EXCEPT XJ700-X models.

$ 7.50 each
or
any 5 shims (any mix of sizes) for $ 35.00


HCP788 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.00
HCP789 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.05
HCP790 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.10
HCP791 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.15
HCP792 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.20
HCP793 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.25
HCP794 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.30
HCP795 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.35
HCP796 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.40
HCP797 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.45
HCP798 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.50
HCP799 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.55
HCP800 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.60
HCP801 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.65
HCP802 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.70
HCP803 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.75
HCP804 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.80
HCP805 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.85
HCP806 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.90
HCP807 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 2.95
HCP808 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 3.00
HCP809 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 3.05
HCP810 Aftermarket Yamaha Valve Shim 3.10


bb) Valve Shim Tool, correct reproduction of the original bucket retainer tool, required when changing valve shims. For all Yamaha XJ models EXCEPT XJ700-X models.

HCP247 Valve Shim Tool
$ 15.00


v7) Aftermarket Valve Shim Feeler Gauges. Dual offset design with 90-degree angled ends on gauges makes it easy to check the valve clearance on all XJ motors.

HCP1593 valve feeler gauge, .002"/.003" set.
$ 5.00

HCP1594 valve feeler gauge, .004"/.005" set.
$ 5.00

HCP1595 valve feeler gauge, .006"/.008" set.
$ 5.00

HCP159345SET---set of all three gauges, 1 each of HCP1593, HCP1594, and HCP1595 gives you all of the most common sizes needed.
$ 13.00

vs7) Aftermarket Valve Shim Feeler Gauges Set. Complete set of 3-1/4" long straight-blade feeler gauges combines all sizes from .0015" thru .035" (.038mm thru .889mm) on a handy storage ring. Sizes on the blades are listed in both decimal and metric dimensions. For the small valve clearances that are of interest to us when doing valve shim clearance measurements, this is the best set to have, as this set has a greater variety of small-clearance sized blades that you'll need:

.0015", .002", .0025", .003", .004", .005", .006", .007", .008", .009", .010", and so one by .001" increments up to .026", and also .028", .030", .032", and .035".

HCP3445 metric Feeler Gauge Set
$ 12.95

 

Chacal @ MiCarl,

Thanks guys for your help and suggestions!

Right now I'm just trying to find out just what I'm getting involved with. And although the winter time might appear to be a good time to get things done before riding season, I'm also wondering whether my non heated garage at 30 to 40 degrees will also play a part whether one gets an accurate feeler gauge reading.

I know the engine should be cold when taking valve clearance readings, like setting 8 hours or more, but it the summer time the outside ambiant temperat is 80 degrees or so. But litterly, an ice cold engine, lol, may be another thing all together.

If I decide to continue now when it's that cold, I might have to consider that the clearance could have changed an additional .05 mm or so.

I do thank you guys for your help, and don't want to make a nusance out of this, but, if you don't mind sharing more of your experiences with these XJ750J Motorcycles, what problem does one look out for in removing and installing the cam cover & gasket? Is it those rubbers that seal the bolts, the cam end rubbers, or just the small space to the frame that causes the trouble?

There again, only answer if this is no problem for you and you definately don't mind!

Thanks again guys,

Bob

 

Yamaha recommends that clearances get checked at "room temperature" without any further clarification. I guess the consensus is that's somewhere around 70-degrees F.

I don't know how much difference you should take into account for changes from that temperature.

While you have the cam cover off, do go ahead and replace all of the rubber bolt washers, they're cheap and will prevent possible problems. All of the retaining force on the main gasket is provided by the "springiness" of those bolt washers.

The installation difficulty comes from the tight clearances, and also from the fact that the cam cover gasket has a small alignment groove that runs it's entire length, and has to match up with an alignment protrusion on the cam cover that run the entire length, and the gasket is (by design) just a scoosh smaller in overall length than the cam cover, and with all of the twists and turns in the cover and gasket, it makes it real challenge to get it to "stay" in place. That's why you need to use some type of quick-drying glue on the gasket ON THE CAM COVER SIDE ONLY to get it to both adhere to the cam cover (without popping off in one place or another) AND to keep the gasket in place when you turn the cover/gasket over and try to manuever it into position on the head.

A second pair of hands is really useful for this procedure.

I've had good success with automotive interior trim glues in either a spray or brush-on.....it's super tacky and sets up pretty darn quickly. It doesn't matter what happens to it after it heats up, since once the cover is back on the head, all is well.

 

Chacal,

Thanks again for that most welcome detailed answer to my question. You seem to really know your stuff.

P.S. I noticed that the time stamp on these messages I receive from this site appear to be difference of 5 hours. Just curious, where does this site originate from? Because I thought there was only 3 hours difference from east to west?

Anyways, thanks again! Have a good day today and a better day tomorrow.

 

You're quite welcome.

It's because of the awesome power of these Yamaha vertical 4-stroke, in-line, multi-carb engines.....they punch a hole right through the space-time continuum and so you get all these strange relativistic effects, time dilation being one of them.

 

But, if you want it to read in your local space-time zone, them go into the "My Account" area of the sight, then go to the "My Preferences" area, and change the first option field to whatever local space-time zone that you habitate within...............


BTW, this site originates from The Twilight Zone.....

 

Correct.

Neither did I when I started, and I also moved a few shims around, buying a total of two to bring mine back within spec.

NEGATIVE. NEGATIVE. NEGATIVE.

My understanding of how it works is this: let the valve go without the shim in the bucket, and you'll have a very difficult time opening the valve again far enough to stick the shim back in later. I don't know if it'll hurt anything, but it certainly won't make your task any easier.

Comes with the territory, I'm afraid. Yes, I pulled all 8 shims twice; once to find out what was there, then again to correct the clearances after I had bought what I needed at a local salvage yard.

Indeed. Some of us here are wondering: where the hell does he keep all this stuff?!?

And lastly, while Sno may be in Canada somewhere, the site is actually hosted in Texas.

 

Little elves store it all for me in their hollow trees....... :roll:

 

I love the humor here!

I read all of my clearances (on a DEAD cold engine) and if one or two of the clearances are out of whack, I'll pull individual shims. Nothing to it with the correct tools. In a few instances, lacking the tools, I pulled the cams. Extreme but it will work in a pinch. The devil is in getting it all lined up again, but not an impossible task (witness my fleet).

 

Now that's the funniest thing of all!!!

 

WOW! That seems rather drastic. I must have at least 100 things in my garage I could quickly fab into tools to yank shims with.

 

[quote="MiCarl).[/quote]

WOW! That seems rather drastic. I must have at least 100 things in my garage I could quickly fab into tools to yank shims with.[/quote]


Is it easy to make a shim removal tool?

Do you have a pic of one?

I probably have 100 things in my garage to make one with, just need a little direction

What happened to the font?

 

The only caution in "Removing" the Cam to get to the Shim is the distinct possibility of having the Automatic Tensioner take-up slack when the Cam is lifted-out.

If it does ... and, the Tensioner IS and AUTOMATIC one ... you're in for a Field Day of work to remove and reset the Auto Tensioner.

That Double Spring inside the Auto-Tensioner DOES NOT like being compressed and is nearly impossible to do without removing the Carbs, the Tensioner and disassembling the Unit.

Then you have a gasket to reseal and a potential leak spot to deal with.

It's best to loosen the Cam and only lift it as little as necessary to deal with ONE Shim at a time.

 

Pictures of raw materials - yes. Pictures of materials in use - no.

Some ideas:

To keep the valve open while backing the cam lobe off.

- a piece of 12-2 romex electrical cable through the spark plug hole and behind the valve. Actually, I have some 14-2 underground cable that probably would be better (tougher jacket)

- a piece of vacuum hose over coat hanger used the same way.

- 1/4" copper tubing wrapped in electrical tape (same way).

- a scrap of wood clamped across the head with a bolt (from the coffee can) of the correct length to catch the edge of the shim bucket and hold it down while backing the cam off the shim. Probably need to grind the threads off one side to get it up tight with a good grip on the bucket.



To pop the shim out of the bucket.

- small screwdriver

- finishing nail

- ice pick

 

Thanks, I get the idea.

 

Chacal, MiCarl, Schmuckaholic, Robert, Olgoat, and anyone else if I forgot

Thanks to all for sharing your experiences, be it good or bad, and the humor that goes with it. I know in the past some of the things I've done to make things work, you'd definately not find in any manual, lol! But it's that yankee injanuvity, (don't think I spelled that right, Oh, what the hell), or red neck logic that really makes the inventors of tomorrow.

This is such a good site with such helpful members, that I think anyone would enjoy it, even if they didn't have a bike. Later, I'm gona have to go and read a lot more of everyone's experiences with other aspects of their bikes.

The different ways suggested to hold the valve open, I heard a guy did that with a nylon tie,bent to double thickness. My only thought was I'd sure hope none of that plastic came under the valve and seat.

Since this seems to be a friendly site of fellow bikers that like to exchange experiences and ideas for thought, and not be afraid of ridicule because someone thought it was dumb or never thought of it themselves, then I'll pass along some idea I also came across.

A petrolem engineer out of texas who also had a Honda Gold Wing had a web site where he listed and discussed the various properties found in today's oils. The part where he discussed good oil to use for the Jap bikes with the wet clutc,I found very interesting. We all know you can't use the lower viscosity (icreased mileage) car oil because your clutch will slip, almost like putting stp on your clutch. And the government over the years have made the oil companes reduce certain additives in their oils that actually gave more protection, (ESPECIALLY AT START UP). Because, that is where most friction occurs, and he claims this oil has that lasting protection.

So what was his oil of choice? 15w40 ! Yes that's right, we all call it diesel oil, because it's used in diesel engines. I thought he might have had an axe to grind, but he didn't really push any particular brand, as he listed all of them, even Wal Marts 15w40, I believe it's sold under the name Super Tech. However he did claim he used the Shell Rotells 15w40 and was well pleased with over 140,000 on his Honda. But said the properties in almost any 15W40 would do the trick, and it'a a lot cheaper than the so called motorcycle oils. I know we always used and were pleased with the shell rotella 15W40 in all the tractor trailers, but I had never thought of using that in a motorcycle. But then a diesel does operate hotter than a gas engine since the fuel air is fired by compression and not a spark. Anyone else read or experienced these claims for 15W40?

Another thing I find important is getting oil to any engine ASAP, especially after an oil change. After all, if you installed a new dry oil filter, as almost everyone does after an oil change, it may only be a few seconds till the filter fills and gets oil to the engine, but even 5 seconds relates to about 166 rpm on a 4 cylinder, 4 stroke engine. So for those that have the spin on oil filters, fill it with oil and let it settle down till the complete filter is filled. Just to show you how much that paper element has to absorb, you might have to keep toping it off several times before all the paper is completely saturated.

I know, the XJ doesn't come stock with a spin on oil filter. But if you put the new paper element into the oil filter canister and fill it with oil, just watch the oil dissapear as the element drinks up the oil. I do this several times till I know the element won't drink up any more. Yes, I know, the problem here is that the filter goes on at about a 90 degree angle and you'll lose a lot before you get it completely bolted on. But back up a little, I alway tilt the filter into a pan before installing, to let the excess drain off before installation, which is only a littl bit. But, at least the paper element doesn't have to wait to get saturated on startup.

Garages and shops you'll never find do this, because it takes a little longer and who cares. But one's machine is a personal thing, and not just for riding, as proven by the wonderful people on this site that take their bikes and repairs serious. Oh yes, a little humor is good when things don't go right!

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to rattle on or play I know more than most, but I do believe that an exchange of ideas between friends is one of the riches things one can exchange. If it's something one already knows or thought of, then good, there must be something to it. If it's something new, then it's something to ponder or investigate further for future feasability.

Got to go. Really enjoy reading everyone's ideas and experiences.
Keep on, keep on!

Bob

 

You're quite welcome star.

But changing things for the better never hurts, does it?:

os1) Reproduction Spin-On Oil Filter Adapter Kit....okay, the original Yamaha cartridge oil filter system is "adequate", but for real oil filtering capabilities and ease of filter replacement---not to mention a certain cool-factor!---you really want to upgrade the factory system to an automotive-type spin-on "can" filter. Doing so not only gets you better oil filtration, easier (much easier) oil changes, but also eliminates the oil cleaner cover, the easy-to-strip bypass bolt, and all the other associated o-rings and seals needed when performing an oil change using a stock system.

This system consists of a precision-machined aluminum filter Adapter Plate, a Mounting Bolt and Mounting Nut, a plate-to-block o-ring Seal, and your choice of a of Purolator or K&N spin-on mini-can oil filter. Everything you need to replace your original set-up on any XJ550/650/700/750/900 motor. NOTE: will work on both all non-factory oil-cooler equipped models, as well as factory oil-cooler models as long as you have the factory oil cooler Adaptor Plate (the thing that the oil cooler lines bolt into).

HCP1284PL aftermarket Spin-On Oil Filter Adapter Kit, with a Purolator Pure-One mini-can filter. Each:
$ 49.95

HCP1284KN aftermarket Spin-On Oil Filter Adapter Kit, with a K&N mini-can filter. Each:
$ 55.95


http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... t=135.html

 

Here's a link to an old thread that I posted a picture of my home made shim remover tool.

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=1232.html

 

Priming the new Oil Filter is a good idea and not very many do it. What most do is start the bike and let it idle under No Load ... and that allows the small, stock, paper filter to becone engulfed in the new oil and begin the filtering process.

If you spin the engine on the starter without the ignition on ... once or twice at a 15 second interval is sufficient.

 

Thanks Nick, I've saved the pic.

 

Hi Stardance.

I'm not (I hope) turning this into an oil debate

Over the years I have read articles about the use 15W40 diesel oil in m/c engines. Having digested them (I'm a retired Research Scientist/Chemical Engineer) I started to use Rotella in my nearly new V-Max. I found it turned very dark quite quickly. I had no clutch slip, even with the V-Boost altered to come on at 3000rpm. I then used Mobil 1 15W40 Syn.

I then had a new V-Strom 1000 & used it in there after 1000km. It also became dark quickly. Used Mobil 1 15W40 Syn after that.

I now use Mobil 1 5W50 Syn in all my bike engines. (yes 5W50) The 100% Syn oils I have/do use(d) do not contain the antifriction additives. I always check on that.

There was no scientific reason for my stopping the use of Rotella as the Mobil seems to get just as dark

The extra cost of the Mobil over Rotella doesn't bother me as I spend so much on the bikes anyway (so the wife says).

The manufacturers have (apparently) cut down on the antiscuffing agents which contain zinc & also maybe phosphorus. Their levels are still supposed to be just fine in diesel oil.

just my 2 cents worth

 

When you do use the Mobil-1 or some other Synth -- does it alter the time interval or milage interval for doing an oil change.

I have to have whatever is in there ... out and renewed at 2,500-3,000 mile increments -- filter included.

 

It's on the XJCD, complete with picture. I bought a holder from the local CycleGear, took it home, bolted it on, and the tang on the end didn't stick down far enough to catch the shim bucket. So, I did like the cd said and stuck a folded ziptie down into the hole. Worked fine.

Small screwdriver and a telescoping magnet.

Sure looks like it. The oil thread's over thataway ------> somewhere.

 

As it is not a bike specific oil, I don't know. It has extended life in car engines.

I never leave it in the bike's engine for more that 2000 miles (3000km) & I change the filter at every oil change.

I'm sure that is complete overkill, so what, it's my bike

 

Those are my sentiments as well.

Nothings too good for my Baby!

 

I'm in Need of a Valve shim tool and some valve cover bolt rubber thingies. Chacal i sent you a PM. This bike is going to be the end of me!

 

The shim tool is worth is weight in gold. Chacal i sent you a PM about shims. needing 10 because i'm doing my neighbors 550 as well lol.

 

I didnt see in this thread, but what is the clearnce specs for a 83 maxim 750?

 

For all XJ motors EXCEPT XJ700-X and XJ750-X models:


Intake valves: 0.11 - 0.15mm (0.004 - 0.006")

Exhaust valves: 0.16 - 0.20mm (0.006 - 0.008")

 

Hey, kinda dumb question, but my manual says to check the clearance between cam lobe and shim when the cam lobe is 180 degrees from the cam follower...

This would mean that the shim, let's use the symbol | ,would be touching the apex of the blunt edge of the cam lobe (not the pointy end that opens the valve), which will be the open end of the > symbol, like so:

|>

Right?

If so I'm getting pretty universally tight measurements, is this to be expected from an '82 XJ650 that probably has never had this done (restoring now I'll post pics soon)?

 

Yes.
The Cam's Lobe is OPPOSITE the Bias of the Shim.
The Valve Bucket is at an ANGLE.
The Shim sits on that angle.

When you measure the Valve's Clearance, ... do so with the "Pointy-end" opposite the Angle that the Bucket sits.

Close tolerances are NORMAL.
The Clearances are close to prevent "Throwing a Shim"

I run close to "Tight-spec" because I like the way the Engine sounds that way.
I check 'em every season.

 

Great, so I'll get out the feeler gauges and start measuring, thanks a ton man!

 

You will get "universally tight" measurements on a motor that's never been touched. The initial check was to have been at 3000 miles, and then every 5000 miles thereafter.

They often got ignored.

 

I know the OP has a 750, but for those of you reading this that have the
650 NON-YICS motor-----

DO NOT go by the Haynes or Factory manuals!

They are misprinted!

When chacal says ALL XJ's except the 700/750-x's, he means ALL

There should be a sticker inside the left cover showing the valve clearances.

 

My Factory Manual is CORRECT.

Intake Valves: 0.11mm - 0.15mm (0.004in. - 0.006")

Exhaust Valves: 0.16mm - 0.20mm (0.006in. - 0.008")

 

Chacal, is the HCP247 Valve Shim Tool heat treated?
How do I go about ordering from you?

 

Bungle, just send me a PM thru the website or an e-mail and I'll get you all the details. I don't think the tool is heat treated, but I don't think that it really matters to be honest.

 

but the zip ties are worth 10x their weight in gold . LOL

dave f