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Help me undo the damage someone did to this classic bike

Discussion in 'For Sale, Trade/Swap, Wanted' started by Brian Harris, Oct 13, 2019.

  1. Brian Harris

    Brian Harris Member

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    Hello Everyone, I apologize in advance for the lengthy post but I love owner forums and need some parts. I’ve had an 1982 Seca 650 for about 15 years that I’ve always wanted to fix up. I bought it second hand from a “motorcycle mechanic” who worked at a custom bike shop when the whole Orange County choppers thing was en vogue and he apparently was trying to turn this thing into a cheap Harley ( aka freaking ruining a classic bike with an exhaust note I adore) . He painted it some weird color shifting paint from a mustang, sawed out the air box and put 12” shorty mufflers on it and painted the rusty headers rattle can black. I rode it for a number of years in poor condition as a young father’s only little bit of escape and even though it’s seen better days part of me still loves this old bike. Problems with unknown failure to start and run reliably sidelined it a while back and now she’s back on the road after new coils, spark plug caps, plugs , total carb rebuild and she’s getting new tires and wheel bearings and forks rebuilt in the next few days

    I had one daughter at the time I bought her and I now have three ( by myself) and my daughters and I are fixing up this bike so that we can ride together with my 91 concours. Hopefully someone can help us with some parts to get this sweet old bike running right again without getting gouged by eBay fees as we’re on a limited budget


    Here’s what I’m looking for and thanks in advance for anyone who can help
    Shipping would be to 35209 as I’m in central Alabama

    keys and matching Accessories (gas cap tank helmet lock and ignition )
    the gauge cluster ( really just need the central warning light cover panel and it’s screws but my gauges are faded badly )
    the air box and boots ,

    the header pipes ,

    The factory mufflers
    Or a complete exhaust system

    a factory oem left set clutch perch ,
    a factory set or mirrors
    the oem solenoid and battery connector
    air box cover
    the bolts that hold on the rear passenger foot pegs to the mount on both sides
    Maybe the side covers for both sides

    The factory crash bars


    The bolts that hold the right side rear passenger foot peg mount to the frame
     
  2. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Start a conversation with @chacal, or e-mail him at info@xj4ever.com
    He will have most (if not all) of what you need for a showroom-quality restoration.
     
  3. Brian Harris

    Brian Harris Member

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    Thanks ,
    I’ve already discussed the few new rubber bits I need with him ( throttle shaft seals and fuel rail o rings ) but for the rest I and my budget are perfectly happy with 1982 era parts :) and some elbow grease to make them pretty.
     
  4. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    are you looking for the 2 point or 3 point engine guards?

    in another thread is was stated that the seca 650 and 650 maxim have the same air box so looking for a maxim box will be easier to find and not cost as much as a Seca box.

    are you close to a yamaha dealer? if you are you can look up the part number for the bolts and order them from a dealer save yourself some shipping cost

    foot rests
    https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1982/xj650rj/stand-footrest


    clutch lever for costing
    https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1982/xj650rj/handle-switch-lever


    oem battery cables are no longer available the oem solinoid $$$


    any xj 3 wire ignition lock will fit just need to find someone selling set or switch your cylinders . whats wrong with original lock and gas cap?
    key number is on bottom of ignition switch may be stamped into key. key is easy to reproduce with numbers
     
  5. Brian Harris

    Brian Harris Member

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    The previous owner struck there as well, the original key was lost, the original gas cap was drilled out and the helmet lock was completely removed from the bike as was the clutch lever and its switch and the side stand switch also. He then lowered the front of the bike two inches and put on a kickstand from another bike and bolted some rear footpeg off another bike to the front left bracket. I swear I like to work on old bikes but undoing the damage caused by someone from 20 years ago isn’t easy.

    I have a set of rear foot pegs I got off eBay, but they are missing the hardware to mount them to the bracket.
     
  6. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    every now an then i buy hardware lots off of ebay you can get some good deals for what is in the lot.

    foot rest nut is 10MM 1.25 pitch so the bolt would be the same they are both flange style this is for the rear foot rest


    clutch lever and perch is the same as one on a 550.

    front foot pegs same as 650 turbo
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  7. Brian Harris

    Brian Harris Member

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    Yes, unfortunately I learned the hard way that some parts are completely different between the two models and bought a set off a turbo Seca ( interesting how many parts there seem to be available for those but I guess that is due to people blowing them up or wrecking them). If anyone needs a good condition front left peg for a maxim then let me know before my mistake goes back on EBay. The joys of trying to reassemble a nearly forty year old bike they only made for one year.... I think I’m gonna go ride my concours that they made nearly unchanged for twenty years and was never the subject of mechanical malevolence by a breaking bad extra.
     
  8. Brian Harris

    Brian Harris Member

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    And I’m not sure about the points of attachment as my bike would appear to have three. I just know I’ve seen smaller bars on the secas than maxims.
     
  9. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    the Seca 650 has a flat style bar
     
  10. Brian Harris

    Brian Harris Member

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    Sorry as I can’t make a new thread. I’ve gotten the bike 90% done but it has a weird miss on cylinders 1 and 4.
    There’s gas getting in the cylinders , coils and resistor caps have all been replaced and test to spec
    It seems intermittent and it isn’t that spark is totally dead just seems very weak. All signs point to a bad TDI from what I can tell. Mine is the green label TDI from the non yics 82 Seca 650. Does anyone know which label tdi will work with this and do you have a known working green label one to sell?
     
  11. Brian Harris

    Brian Harris Member

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    Pickup coils ohm to about 680 I believe, nothing was crazy out of spec
     
  12. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Green label is the standard issue. the yics ones will work.
    the yamaha has a weak spark to start with. keep battery fully charged low voltage is not freindly to the tci firing. avolts and no fire.
    any thing less than 10 volts and you done.

    if plugs are firing tci is good.

    lets recap. what have you done to carbs? i see you were going to get some rubber bits.
    did you do a bench sync on the carbs?
    mixture screw setting about 1-1/2 turns from soft bottom ? your mixture screws should be course threads.

    have you checked the valve clearances?

    if plug wires are long eough you can swap coils to see if issue follows coils

    when you took off the caps did you trim the wires a little to eliminate any corrosion?
     
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  13. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Keeping everything in this thread is preferred so a full history of the bike is easily reviewed.

    Perhaps describe the weird miss on cylinders 1 and 4 with a little more detail. Is the bike a runner with a slight miss, misses only cold, hot, low speed, high speed, 1 and 4 pipes not as hot - any additional info might help.
     
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  14. Brian Harris

    Brian Harris Member

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    Bike has a brand new battery, is on a charger and I measured 12 volts to the pins at the TDI. I also measured 12 volts to the coils at the red white wire and verified continuity between the wires at the coils and the TDI. The coils have been replaced with aftermarket units, both test the same resistances and I put all new resistor caps on each lead as well. I pulled the plug wires from the coils that is controlling 1 and 4 and ensured there was fresh bare metal on each of the wire ends and ohmd out the secondarys which were with spec. I completely swapped coils between 1 4 and 2 3 and the problem stayed with the 1/4 cylinder pair. I’m pretty sure it isn’t the coils. Thoroughly cleaned all the connectors at the TDI and noticed there was a little corrosion on one of the pins and then I sprayed out the connectors with QD electrical cleaner.

    Carbs are freshly rebuilt, all jets including the enrichment jets in the bowls are clear , new float seats needles etc and I pulled them to wet check the fuel levels which are within spec. The needles are seating as they should, the 1 and 4 plugs are wet when I pull them. The engine seems to start running on all four if I rev it up over like 4000 rpms. However if you let it settle back to idle it becomes very rough again. Pulling the plug lead on 1/4 either one seems to have no effect at low engine speeds but seems to make a miss worse at higher rpms.
    Again and again it seems like the ignition doesn’t want to work consistently and only properly on cylinders 2 and 3.
    I’ve traced the wires down to the pickup coils , pulled the pulse cover which I found had a small crack on the middle of it and some road rash. But inside the cover it all looks factory fresh. I cleaner the pickups with a little rubbing alcohol on cloth just to make sure they weren’t the issue. Again resistance for them from the TDI was about 680 ohms and I verified they had no path to ground where they might have shorted to the frame.

    If hook another plug to either 1 or 4 there is a spark so it isn’t a total failure but it’s almost like it’s out of phase with the cylinder ? But it is again only on 1 / 4, the 2/3 pair is fine and if you pull the plug lead off them when the bike is idling it just dies. I swear it seems like the bike starts firing on all four once it’s above 4000rpms.

    Pilot jets on all carbs are clear and new and the problem is affecting just the outer two cylinders. I really don’t think it a carb issue this time for one blessed moment of luck. The only consist thing is the 1/4 cylinder pair, to me it sounds like it’s a dead miss on two cylinders at low speeds and working around 4K rpms.
    So at this point it would ALL seem to point towards either a bad TDI or a bad pickup coil.

    It also seems like intermittently it doesn’t want to fire at all. Battery is fully charged on boost charger while doing this.

    I’ve also tried jumper cables to a car battery to make absolutely sure it wasn’t just a battery problem, no change.

    So all evidence seems to point to either the pickup coil isn’t sending signal properly from the pulse unit and needs to be replaced or the TCI ( which even with the screws off the back and front wouldn’t come apart so I couldn’t check the surface mount components on the PCB itself ) had a bad channel within it and needs to be replaced. I rode this bike for years and one day this all stared happening with no other changes so she was Parked and say for ten years


    Sorry for the novel there is just a bunch of factors at plat in troubleshooting ignitions
     
  15. Brian Harris

    Brian Harris Member

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    Oh and 1/4 pipes not getting hot either
     
  16. Brian Harris

    Brian Harris Member

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    And to answer the other question the carbs were bench synched, I tuned the butterflys to all hit half way on the tiny hole in the top where the enrichment circuit comes into the airstream so they are really close.

    There are a few intermittent seconds where it seems like all four are firing and it sounds beautiful. I set all mixture adjustments screws 2 turns out on the mixture and changing them doesn’t affect the low speed miss whatsoever.

    some times now it doesn’t want run at all and the plugs will be wet and the battery charged.
     
  17. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    If there is one bad pick-up coil the bike will not run at all as the opposing cylinders with the good pick-up will fire and at the wrong time. If the pick-up was a bit intermittent that might change, but since you have cold pipes on 1 and 4 it's likely they are never firing.

    Running smoother at 4000 rpm is likely just the engine running with two cylinders is less apparent than lower rpm while the other two are just dragging along. The only way to really test the TCI is either with equipment such as an oscilloscope to evaluate the primary side signal, or by swapping in a good one or trying yours in another bike. The green label TCI's seem to be a bit pricey, so if you would like to send it this way I would gladly evaluate it for you. I will send you a PM
     
  18. Brian Harris

    Brian Harris Member

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    Love this site, thanks again to all my fellow XJ owners for offering assistance
     
  19. Brian Harris

    Brian Harris Member

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    Also it does hit a point above 4K where the sound changes and I really believe it’s firing on all four and revs freely.
    This morning it doesn’t want to fire up at all. Just the occasional backfire and popping loudly and this is on a charger and showing over 12 volts. The pickup coils seem so simple, has anyone seem them intermittently fail?
    I bought a TDI off a member here so I guess I’ll just pace around for a few days and be patient to see if that’s the fix.

    I’ve been fixing things since I was literally six years old and can think of few other things that have been as daunting as this bike after the breaking bad cast look a like I bought it from was done messing it up.
     
  20. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    While it is in that state of not starting and firing go ahead and ohm the pick-up coils again at the TCI connector. What you described above is symptomatic of one pick-up coil not working, which causes the opposite cylinders to fire. My recollection is that most of the intermittent failures described here are usually OK cold but fail after warm-up.
     

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