Rear wheel gets stuck if put in first gear

Hi to all the members here. My name is Jose and I got a very nice 1982 XJ650RJ pretty cheap. I cleaned the carbs, put new spark plugs, new air filters, new battery and new fuse box. I also painted the frame, tank, side covers and seat cowl. The bike now starts nicely. The problem is that if I try to get her into first gear, the rear wheel gets stuck. Also, finding neutral is a pain. I have to pull up the bike from second gear and she seems to run good, but If I put her into first gear the rear wheel gets stuck even with the clutch lever pulled all the way in. Any ideas as to where to start? I have a 2013 Triumph Thruxton and a 1980 Yamaha XS400. I do all the work on my bikes but I have never deal with transmission problems.

I'll appreciate any help.

Thank you.

 

First of all welcome to the forum. Lots of great information here and that upper right icon will link you to all kinds of great information and great parts.

Does the rear wheel spin freely when in neutral? Is the bike running when you are shifting in the description above? Just want to make sure we get this right, with the bike running normally if you shift into first gear and let the clutch out, the rear tire will stop and kill the bike? If you have it running and then shift it to second gear, let the clutch out the rear tire will spin and the engine will stay running.

Are you sure you don't have the back brake adjusted too tight and it is dragging. If it is not that, you could have lost first great. More help on the way other will chime in.

 

There are several thread on here about gearbox issue with the shaft-drive XJs (650 and bigger) caused by a composite primary chain guide/tensioner that break up over times and jams the gearbox. Could be worth searching a bit more. IIRC theres also an emergency fix you can undertake without lifting the engine and splitting the cases.. apparently
.. I'm a chain drive man.

 

Man, thank you for your prompt reponse. To answer some of your questions,

1. Yes, the bike spins free in neutral, when I find neutral which is a pain. However, she jumps out of neutral.
2. It does it when the bike is both running or if I do it when she is on the center stand.
3. The engine does not get killed. The engine is still running but the rear wheel is stuck. Is like when you downshift to first you’re pulling the brakes fully. The wheels just stop running.
4. Rear brakes are not the problem as she runs good in other gears.

In summary, the issue is that even pulling the clucth lever all the way in, when you downshift to first the rearwheel gets stuck.

 

Any more help?

 

I tested again today and it also gets stuck in third. It makes a really scary clanking noise when she gets stuck. It does does it even when the clutch lever pulled in.

 

I'd go with the above poster...possible Hy Vo alternator chain drive guide has broken up, which can mean bits of mettalised rubber inside the gearbox....dogs, shift forks etc, which CAN cause all sort of gear change lock up problems....

 

Here's a link about the issue the others suggest.
http://xjcd.org/emergency_guidectomy

 

http://www.xjcd.org/emergency_guidectomy

 

I didnt notice you had already posted this lol.

 

Tut..

 

Yup, you're the first mate!, I was just trying to reinforce your advice, to the original poster !!

( hey...are Wheels International still in the Bedfordshire area..or are they long gone, a100man. ??)

 

Thank you all for ur help. I definitely have my hands full for this weekend.

 

You might get 'lucky', using the inspection hole technique, to fish out some pieces of guide, also an engine oil flush,or two etc.....might buy you some time, basically the Hy Vo alternator chain is TOUGH, and will easily outlast the guide itself......what can happen though, is there is a small oil spray tube that runs close to that chain.....with the guide compromised, that oil tube can get severely chewed up......I've had this happen twice......admittedly on very hi mileage XJ's ( Also knew of one other that succumbed, all three required an engine strip, to replace the guide.......chain was replaced also, although in my case, when measured next to a new one, stretch was not that bad ! ( this after 110K, and 120K respectively )

 

As stated earlier this does sound like the chain guide is breaking up, chunks can jamb the gears in the transmission, this will also make it difficult or impossible to shift gears. The best and in my opion only way to fix , pull engine split case and replace guide, while your at it do the starter clutch. My seca 750 starter clutch slips when hot , I will do the deed when it quits turning over. I have a spare engine just in case .

 

I couldn't wait until the weekend so today I took out the side cover and inspected everything there through the hole but I found no plastic parts anywhere. Now the bike is stuck in 1st gear and the shifter does not move at all. I tried rocking the bike back and forward but there is no change. I guess splitting the engine will be the way. Is this too difficult?

 

This is EXACTLY what happened to my XJ......had to ride home in first gear, about 25 miles!!

 

Never mind. I found a thread here that explains the whole process with photos. Thank you all!

 

And what did you end up doing? Engine split?

 

Yes....no other way, no other 100% way......split 2 motors, also my friend at the time, her XJ locked up, in 3rd gear, ended up splitting her motor too.

After it was put back together, it went on to do ANOTHER 120K miles, at which time it was upto 240K........but, by then I was already on my way to 'Merica....it was STILL running, when I sold her......drive shaft was clunky, on take off, motor would NOT idle on its own at all ( carb butterfly rubbers leaking0 but she ran strong, still did 100MPH and 47MPG!!

 

What did u find with the two split engines? Im looking for tips as to what or where to look. I’m also looking that I found in eBay from a reputable seller. He tells me that the engine was running fine when they took it off the bike and he just confirmed that the tranny moves and gears free. The engine is just $480 with shipping. I can get Square Trade to warrant the item for 12 months for an additional $49. That just over $500 which I have no problem paying but what has me hesitating is to get an old engine that may sooner or later require the same job. I think I can repair mine for $250 worth of parts.

 

At the time ( 1992) I too bought a couple of spare motors.....then had my mate do all the work, I was working, so didn't have the time, to oversee, but he DID say the Hy Vo chain was still useable......mainly just stripping down/flushing to get all the bits out, I dont think the chain guide is difficult to get to, nor replace....once you have the cases split!!

I THINK I read that its do=able by turning the motor upside down, and taking the sump......sorry, oil pan off, but.......no idea whether thats true

of course, ANY 39 year old motor at this stage is like to have brittle guide blades inside it...both the Alternator and cam chain !!

 

Yes. In the repair manual it says that you turn it upside down and can split from there taking the oil pan out without messing with the cylinder block or any upper part of the engine, which is a relief. The primary chain drive is Just $50, the starter clutch another $40, a new set of gaskets for the whole engine is another $98 and then, if needed, a good used set of gears (pinions and shaft) can be bought for around $60. My engine starts without hesitation and idles good and I would like to keep it.

 

Hmm I think that was the Harley dealer in Hockliffe, near Dunstable - in which case gone! Theres another place called Wheels Motorcycles in Peterborough but likely not teh same..
From google maps here the old Hockliffe site now..

https://goo.gl/maps/waBi85tfBMfKKjtn8

Cheers

 

Member Joe Elif might have a spare engine you could IM him , swap out your engine and tear it down . A neat trick Joe uses is an old tire put engine in middle ,you can flip engine over without damaging cooling fins as long as your carefull, this will also keep from maring case .

 

this is a link to check for chain guide

http://www.xjcd.org/emergency_guidectomy

 

Yup that was them I think, Wheels International, Hockcliffe, Bedfordshire........looooong long time ago.....1991 to be precise, they were 'multi dealer', and often used to bring in rare imports.....thats where I found my 1983.......then > 1992 Maxim 750 Yamaha, brand new, in the crate !!

 

Thank u!

 

Thanks!

 

So I finally split the engine yesterday and found the culprit. A new transmission is on the way. I just have a question regarding those plastic things that appear to be chain guides. I ask because I didn’t see this in the cds1984 engine removal thread.

 

The culprit...

 

Picture of starter/alternator drive chain guide below.

https://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/83-xj900-starter-clutch.64131/

 

you are pointing to the cam chain guides in photo.
there is another set on the "primary" chain that you should replace. you should also change the starter clutch while your in the motor


you can see it in this drawing
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/1982/xj650rj/starter-clutch

 

Yes, although the cam chain guide 'rubber' CAN break up, it's usually the thicker, 'fixed' alternator chain guide, that breaks up into 'bigger' chunks, which lodge themselves in the gearbox....

if you can source a new hy vo alternator chain, I'd be curious to a side to side measurement, as to how stretched your old one was.....mine was only a few millimeters, longer, compared to the new one ( purchased in the early 90's...you could still get over the counter spare parts then!!)

 

I'm another one with a bike that got stuck in first gear, just today. I pulled into a cafe car park about ten miles from home when it happened. I made it most of the way back, found it would change gear as normal, and got to within half a mile before I had to stop at a roundabout. When I pulled away, I couldn't get it out of first again.
The bike is a 1981 UK model XJ750. The engine has only done about 30,000 miles, but of course it's nearly 40 years old.

 

I've just taken the side cover off (See above post). There are two lumps of chain guide rubber visible through the hole. Each one is about half an inch across. Oh well.

It looks like I'll be riding on my BSA M33 for a while, once I've finished working on it; shouldn't take too long to get it up and running.

 

Is that the Haynes manual or another one? Do you mean that the chain guide can be got at and replaced just by removing the oil pan and nothing else, or do the main cases have to be split as well?

Yes, I remember Wheels International. For you American folks, Bedford and Milton Keynes are only about 17 miles apart. Hockliffe is maybe a dozen miles from me.

 

Lol..I'm a Brit, an 'ex pat' as it were,( and an ex bike courier, know those places all too well!!) but still being British, I dunno how exactly that makes me an 'ex patriot'? exactly!!

 

Now I’m waiting for the new tranny to arrive. I think the bike will be up and running by Sunday.

 

I don’t know why these guys are hijacking this thread talking about a dealer....anyway...

I already did the split and yes, you don’t have to mess with the upper half of the engine. So cylinders and valves just stay there and you don’t have to touch them. Just take the oil pan out and remove like 32 screws and the bottom half of the crankcase will come out. One part of the transmission will come out with the upper part of the crankcase and the other half will stay in the lower part of the crankcase.

 

Good work Jose.. hope you get it sorted soon.

 

Okay, thanks Jose. I'll not be able to do mine until the BSA is all back together and I've got some room on the work bench.

 

thread drift happens from time to time

 

Wheels Int are gone, but there's another dealer on site - SM Motorcycles. Unsure whether they're using the old WI premises or not, but they're right next to it. I think they're linked to Steelmate around the back.
I know of the owner via a friend, but not been near there for years.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/H...e97445f5b830ed7!8m2!3d51.9307782!4d-0.5846542


https://www.smmotorcycles.co.uk/

 

It took me three days to take the engine out, open it, take the tranny out, wait for the new tranny, put the new tranny in, close the engine, put it back, put the whole bike togheter and got her running again. With your help, I just saved myself $2,000 which was what a localmechanic quoted me for the job. I don’t know if this is something that I’ll ever do again, but it was definitiviley worth it. I got the new tranny components lightly used on eBay for $35. The bike runs smooth now. Thank you all.

 

it will be quicker the next time you do it

 

Bad news.... after riding her around my block I decided to take her on a longer ride. Suddenly she made a very loud noise and this happened ((see photos). The pressure plate was completely destroyed. I don’t know how this happened as I adjusted the screws that hold the springs, to specifications. Clutch operation was smooth before this although she did started making a weird noise when I pulled the clutch to change gears a few minutes before this happened. I already ordered the replacements including a cover. But before installing I wanted to have some input from you as to how to avoid this happening again.

 

If I hadn’t take so many beer breaks maybe I could have made this in two days.

 

Did you reuse the original pressure-plate bolts? They are meant to be replaced whenever they are removed.