New solution found!!

I think I have found my problem with my bike not starting.. (see thread "Bike still not ridable" or "Fed up with this bike")

I tested the resistances of my coils. 2.2 primary on both, but secondary resistance is 18k on the outer plugs and a Whopping 800k Ohms on the inside plugs coil.

so I think I am going to replace both coils.

Is this the "For sure" reason the bike will not start?

what kind of coils do I need? Acording to the dennis kirk catalog there is 2 types: inductive, and CDI. which ones work with the XJ650 Seca?

 

Glad you finally figured it out!

These are the coils that you want......I have them in-stock and ready to ship, and I also still offer free standard shipping on all orders over $100!

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... t=135.html


Dyna Performance Coils:

c3) HCP245 Aftermarket Dyna "Green" Ignition Coils, a pair of high-output (40kV) replacement coils. 3.0 ohms primary resistance means you won't be burning up your TCI box; 14.4K ohms secondary resistance means you get a much more serious spark than a stock factory coil will ever produce. Both the primary and high-voltage (output) terminals are brass, which means they'll never corrode; no exposed laminations to rust or degrade over time; and each coil is fully and completely ultrasonically welded shut and encased in a tough thermoplastic shell to prevent any problems with moisture intrusion (a real problem with older factory coils). Output terminals accept either 7mm or 8mm wires (note that wires, output boots, and spark plug caps are NOT included with the coils).

NOTE: for most XJ model bikes, these coils will require you to fabricate special mounting "U"-brackets to properly mount them into the stock locations, as well as an assortment of different length bolts, washers, spacers, etc. You want to end up with the coil output terminals facing "down" (towards the engine) rather than "out" (towards the horizontal) and that is why you need to fabricate brackets. Not hard to do, but rather time-consuming.....it's cramped under there! You may also have to re-route some wiring harnesses and/or relocate some relay holders. Plan on spending 4 hours planning your install and then a couple of dollars in small parts!.

Models that mount the coils up on the steering neck (some 700 models) will also have to fabricate brackets.

HCP245 pair of Dyna high-output "green" coils:
$ 119.00



Spark Plug Wires:


spw1) Aftermarket Spark Plug Wire Sets feature a solid copper-core, non-suppression (zero ohms resistance) and are needed when using aftermarket Dyna coils. Each set contains two 4-foot length of 7mm wires with a tall, molded rubber 135-degree angle plug boot on both ends. Cut each wire in half, and now you have four (4) two-foot long wire segments, each with a molded 135-degree angled rubber boot on one end (and a bare wire on the other end, which become the coil end of the wire). Kits come with four coil-end brass crimp-on terminals, a straight rubber coil cap, and installation instructions.

NOTE: you can, of course, cut the wires down to any needed length (two feet is actually too much for most XJ models), and, if you wish, you can cut off the molded rubber plug boot and use the original style NGK resistance caps for a "factory" type appearance. These copper-core wires, boots, and terminals are zero-resistance throughout, which is the ideal situation for situations where electrical RFI interference isn't an issue (like on older motorcycles!).


HCP4014 Aftermarket 7mm cooper-core, non-suppression (zero ohms resistance) BLACK Spark Plug Wire Set, more than enough to do one bike.
$ 18.00


HCP4015 Aftermarket 7mm cooper-core, non-suppression (zero ohms resistance) RED Spark Plug Wire Set, more than enough to do one bike.
$ 18.00

 

Makes sense. The one coil would probably work initially (cold) until heat started to build up inside it. At that point, I suspect the coil would begin to fail until the bike just wouldn't run anymore on just two cylinders.

Yes, your scenario seems very plausible. You may be able to check it by hooking an inductive timing light (or some other spark checker) to the spark plug lead in question. Start the bike and see if the timing light quits strobing as the bike begins to lose Rpm then dies.

 

Is there supposed to be voltage at the coils for these bikes?

I measured the 2 contacts where the the coil plugs in (on the TCI side not the coil side) with the switch on, and it was .68 volts. Am I measureing correctly? Is this normal?

 

Bike not running. Key on? Not right. Should get battery voltage.

Remember all you safety circuits cut out the power to the coils.

Motorcycle in neutral, kill switch on, key on - and try again.

Also, if you're using an auto ranging digital meter pay attention to the units. I'll bet you're reading .68 micro volts (ie: 0).

If you get the same result I'll put on my boots and go check mine just to make sure I'm right that they should have voltage when not running (I'm 99% sure though).

 

The Plug-in's on the wiring harness to the Coils should have 12.0 Volts to them when the Ignition is ON.

There is always Voltage to the Coils when the Ignition is ON. The work on "Wasted spark" ... with the Non-Power Stroke Pistons getting Spark even though they aren't going to fire until the next revolution.

I think there should be more than .68 Volts to the Coils. Check the scale of your meter and be sure you are reading Volts-DC.

 

From my factory service manual for an XJ 650 RJ under TCI: "This unit also incorporates a protective circuit for the ignition coil. If the ignition switch is turned on and the crankshaft is not turned, the protective circuit stops current flow to the coil within a few seconds. When the crankshaft is turned over, the current is turned on again by the signals generated by the pickup coils."

I'd check it with it running anyway.

All typed at a blistering 5 words a minute. Who knew I'd need to type when I went to school?

Good luck,

 

Im just hoping when I replace the coils it fires right up, and there is no other problem. If there is, I want to find that prob. and deal with it now.

Bike is in neutral, kill switch set to run, key on, engine not running, and no voltage to the coils, BUT I do have spark on one of the coils SO Im sure they are getting voltage when they need it. we will see.

 

Or you might actually have a damaged PICK-UP coil or lead wire down behind the left side crankcase cover......or the wire could be bad from the pick-up coil to the TCI.

At the IGNITION COIL primary input leads (from the TCI), you should have as close to 12V as is possible!

 

If he's got no voltage I don't think it's the pick ups. If Mbrew is correct the voltage will only be there briefly when the key is first turned on.

Tomorrow morning I'll go out to the barn with a meter. Results to come.....

 

OK, so my question is: If I replace my stock coils with the Dyna Performance coils, will it change the performance noticably? Mine are still in good shape and the engine runs well, just wondering if it's worth the money to do the upgrade?? >PD<

 

Quick, general answer: NO (and don't forget that I sell them, so it's hard to get a more honest answer than that!).

More specific, detailed answer: MAYBE. Your orignal coils are old. They may not be within resistance specs.....and this is a potentially big problem if they have drifted down to a "lower" resistance than spec (below 2.25 ohms on the primary side---reason: they'll eat up your TCI box components). They may have hairline cracks in the cases. They may not be outputting a full measure of secondary voltage to the plugs. If any of those conditions exist, your stock coils might possibly be decreasing your bike's "performance" in certain ways....maybe not in straight line accelleration, but perhaps in ease of starting, or in fuel economy. Maybe. Maybe not.

Bottom Line: if your stock coils are doing an acceptable job, there's no need to replace them for "performance" reasons. If your stock coils are bad (or the plug wires, or the plug boots), then by all means replace the damaged or defective items, and if the coils are one of those items, considering upgrading to the Dyna coils instead of a new or used set of stock coils.

 

Thanks Chacal!,
I don't need to replace the coils just yet. I just checked mine yesterday to see if I could find any cracks in them. They appear to be like new yet. I will keep you in mind when/if I ever need new ones ...or anything else!! >PD<

 

Checked voltage at the coils today. 0, nothing, nada, zip. Plug coils back in fires right up. TCI must only power them when it is getting input from the pickup coils.

 

Thanks for verifying that Micarl. Thats what I thought. Because I do have some spark, and spark is not possible at all at .68 volts. So its getting 12V somewhere.

I just ordered new coils from chacal, Im expecting it to fire right up after istallation.

Anyone know how to addapt the dyna coils to fit on my bike? Pics if possible? Thanks.