Cap lost in engine

On working on the bike today 750 seca I was putting the automatic cam chain tensioner cap back on when it spurn off the socket and went down the vertical hole where the starter motor goes(yep should have had it covered) .


I have borrowed a camera and it has fallen down the gap between the two cogs and after trying for many hours I can not get it out.

I was wondering if anyone with a bit more knowledge could let me know if I removed the shaft drive gears do think that I could access it from there ,or is it a full engine out and strip?



Why are the pubs shut now!!!

 

Have you enough access to get it with a small magnet? You can buy them with the flexible extension. Might work if you have enough space for the camera.

 

Unfortunately the cap is aluminium so is not magnetic.

Really don't fancy taking the engine back o

 

Forgot about that, that's a bummer.

 

garden hose or smaller hooked to a vacuum?
i guess you are talking about the disc on the internal end?

 

Have you already tried one of the cable/claw grabber things?

https://www.ebay.com/i/402222307860...MIltfsnqnw6AIVNQPnCh1dMgunEAQYBSABEgI7L_D_BwE

 

Yes thanks, I think I will need to try and strip something off the engine to try and get to it.

Looking on the previous posts on this site I might have to take the motor out and hopefully get away with splitting the crank case while leaving the top end in place as it looks like the only way to get at the cap,unless anyone can suggest otherwise.


I must confess after this I did think about taking a cutting disc to the bike as it has not been my most enjoyable project probably as I have been working on it over the last three years due to work and home improvements.

 

Is there any chance of making it drop down into the oil pan? I know it is unlikely just a thought anyway. If you could it would save you a lot of work splitting the cases.

 

i guess you are talking about the disc on the internal end?
No it is the end cap that pushes the spring,I still have the springs and the copper washer.

 

I am open to any suggestions. I can rattle it when I put a piece of 3mm plastic welding rod down the gap between the two cogs to a depth of 2'' so I am not sure if it would drop down into the sump.

 

a bit drastic but may be turn the whole bike upside down

 

Do you have access for these?

 

I was thinking that too.

 

The cap on my 900 f is magnetic I just tried this on it.

 

This is the type on my bike ,is it the same as the one fitted to the 900?
I will have a look online for some of the bent pliers.

Many years ago we tipped my mates cb125 upside down to get a tappet nut out so could have a look at trying that.

 

Here it is.

 

Looks like mine so your 12mm nut end is steel or do you think that the magnet is picking up the spring inside? ,just ordered a thin magnetic tool and some bent pliers.

 

It is the cap that is magnetic although the spring will be too. Hopefully that will get it out of the engine or the pliers will.

 

Can you put a big glob of... umm grease or something sticky, toffee... on the end of your plastic welding rod and gently manoeuvre it out that way... maybe.
Quite a conundrum!

 

I have ordered a few tools off the internet and will have a go at fishing it out later this week,

I might be in a better mood with the bike by then!!

 

If you can reach it with a piece of small plastic tubing you might be able to connect the tubing to a vacuum and pull it out. A shop vac and some duct tape will work and give you a lot of suction. I have been able to do that with small objects.

 

That could be my plan,B ,C or D ,just waiting for the delivery of some tools to turn up.

 

You where right Franz it is magnetic,I had a good fish today and got the cap out!

The first thing I did after that was to put the starter motor back into the hole.

I must confess that I had got so frustrated with the bike when trying to take off and then refit the cam chain tensioner with the carbs and air box in place,it was the spring loaded cap that I just couldn't get my hands into the space to push and turn at the same time.


I have put the tensioner back but I am not 100% happy with the timing marks as they are just a bit off 12 o'clock but I am waiting for a delivery of a TDC gauge to check everything before putting the carbs back.

 

I bet you were looking around for someone to high five after that excitement.
Better than turning your bike upside down haha.

 

Great you got it out. Is your cam chain tight on the exhaust side of the engine?

 

Easier if it's a 125 lol.

 

First rule of maintenance close off all of the openings into the engine.

 

Everything lines up until I put tension back on the chain.

I have rotated the engine clockwise towards the back of the bike,then counter clockwise is this the best way for the auto tensioner to take up the slack?

Attached is an image of the inlet cam dot position .

 

Just a bit, I have had a few issues doing this build, which would not have normally lasted this long.It was going to be a joint project with my son, but he ended up moving out and buying a house requiring my time helping him with some building work!

 

If you are rotating it by the timing plate on the left hand side of the engine you want to rotate it counter clockwise. The forward side of the cam chain stays tight that way and the tensioner picks up the slack on the rear portion of it. As per my bikes service manual, after timing it at the TDC mark you then rotate it to the C mark and release the tensioner. Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Inlet cam looks one tooth out. With the exhaust and crank in the right position and tension on the chain between the crank and exhaust cam remove the tensioner and move the inlet cam one tooth to the left. Then refit the tensioner and check all marks. Always turn engine anti clockwise.

 

Thanks, I will have another go on Tuesday as the bike is not at home so I will not get back to it until then.

 

All timed up correctly now, put the carb's back on .

The bike has started up but I am not 100% happy with the running. I tried to balance the carbs using my old vacuum gauges but the hoses have split,I can't believe it they are only about 20 years old!

Once that I have some new hoses I will try and balance the carbs to see if it improves the running.
I remember from my old Z1000 days that it was common for people to link the vacuum points together,but not sure if it will work for the XJ 750.

Now for some more reading on the site.

 

Keep in mind if it has YICS the vacuum is linked between all the intakes and you have to get a block off tool to balance then.

 

They can be balanced without the tool but l have not tried it yet.

 

forget about that YICS tool, just do it

 

I did do a lot of reading on this site and remember about the YICS tool, but that was 3 years ago and it did slip my mind.

Just ordered one from the US, and will have to hope that it does not get caught for customs charges which would double the price.

In the past I have had large parcels from the US without charge but some small ones, the last being a float bowl that cost me more in import and UK post office admin charge than the cost of the goods and the US shipping!

 

Hmmm.... thinking about this again, I'm thinking it's mainly to make balancing easier. With the tool, each cylinder has independent vacuum that's controlled only by its carburetor's butterfly plate. Without the tool, each intake is also sucking the air from the others through the YICS passage. So, without the tool, any change you make in one is going to have a bit of an effect on the others. The YICS holes are small, but so are the butterfly openings at idle.

I don't doubt you can tune without the tool, but I bet it saves time to have it.