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No spark cylinder 2 and 3. XJ650, checked everything.

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by mark lasco, May 31, 2020.

  1. mark lasco

    mark lasco New Member

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    hey guys, new to the forum!

    So, i'm having problems with my XJ650, while tuning the air/fuel ratio, cylinders 2 and 3 suddenly died. It runs and it idles but only cylinder 1 and 4 is running. The ignition coils are brand new when cylinder 2 and 3 died, the stock ignition coils are fine so i swapped them out thinking it was the brand new ignition coils, same problem, 2 and 3 are dead. Cylinders 2 and 3 are not getting any spark, i checked the wiring and everything is wired correctly.

    Things that i did.
    -New plugs (BP7ES)
    -New ignition coil
    -New fuse block(and fuses)
    -New starter relay
    -New sparkplug cap (NGK XDOF5-R)

    the only thing that i have not checked are the pickup coils and the TCI, could these be the culprit?
     
  2. dkavanagh

    dkavanagh Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    If you swapped the 2-3 coil out for a known working one and it still doesn't fire on those cylinders, I would suspect the TCI, that or the wiring between the TCI and coil.
     
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  3. mark lasco

    mark lasco New Member

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    will disassemble the pickup coil tom and see if there are any disconnected wires, what's weird is that while i was tuning it, it was running fine and then suddenly ran on two cylinders(1 and 4) and died!
     
  4. mark lasco

    mark lasco New Member

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    Followed this thread

    looks like it's bad pickup, swapped out the orange and grey wires from the 6-position tci, dead cylinder went from 2/3 to 1/4.
     
  5. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    you can ohm out the pickups

    The Ultimate Relay, Switch, Sensor, and Diodes Guide
    from above link
    XJ650 models:
    Pick-up coils:
    1980-81 XJ650 Maxim and Midnight Maxim: 700 ohms +/- 20% = 560 ohms to 840 ohms acceptable range
    1982 XJ650RJ Seca (non-yics engines): 700 ohms +/- 20% = 560 ohms to 840 ohms acceptable range
    1982-84 XJ650 Maxim: 650 ohms +/- 20% = 520 ohms to 780 ohms acceptable range
    1982 XJ650RJC Seca (yics engine): 650 ohms +/- 20% = 520 ohms to 780 ohms acceptable range
    1982-83 XJ650 Turbo: 120 ohms +/- 20% = 96 ohms to 144 ohms acceptable range

    Ignition Coils:
    Primary side (input from main wiring harness):
    2.5 ohms +/- 10% = 2.25 ohms - 2.75 ohms acceptable range

    Secondary side (spark plug wires, without their end caps):
    11K ohms +/- 20% = 8,800 ohms - 13,200 ohms acceptable range

    Spark plug caps:
    5K +/- 20% = 4,000 to 6,000 ohms per cap acceptable range

    Spark plugs:
    0 ohms per plug
     
  6. mark lasco

    mark lasco New Member

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    Will get a multimeter later. I followed SQLguy's guide and when i swapped out the lead for the pickup coils, the spark trasnferred from 1 and 4 to 2 and 3, so i'm guessing it's bad pickups or dirty pickups, any chance i can have this pickup coil repaired or refurbishe?
     
  7. SQLGuy

    SQLGuy Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't think they're repairable. They are interchangeable for a few different models, though. It could also be that the grey(?) wire is broken between the TCI and the pickup.
     
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  8. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I would suggest you do the meter check before going any further with the pick-ups. Add to the testing that xj550H posted to check the pick-up to chassis ground - it should be open. The reason for being suspicious that a pick-up is not bad is that typically when a pick-up is bad the bike will not run as the TCI fires the opposite channel (cylinders) of the good pick-up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
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  9. mark lasco

    mark lasco New Member

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    Thanks, will do that, i checked the wiring just now and it seems the Pickup coil wires (orange and gray) are connected to the 4-position plug, is that correct?
     
  10. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Measurements with TCI wiring disconnected:

    The 4 terminal plug the Orange and Grey are for the primary side of the ignition coils - resistance from Orange to Red/White and Gray to Red/White should be about 2.5 ohms.

    The 6 terminal plug the Orange and Grey are for the pick-up coils - resistance from Orange to Black and Grey to Black should be about 650 ohms and all three of those wires should be open to chassis ground.
     
  11. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Can you give any details on the new ignition coils you were running with?
     
  12. mark lasco

    mark lasco New Member

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    hi! it seems that the PO attached the pickup coil wires(orange and gray) to the 4-position plug together with the black wire from the pick up coils! i think he got all the wires mixed up! may i ask what the purpose is of the black wires from the pickup coils(going to the 6-position plug) and the black wires going to the 4 position plug?

    the ignition coils are from aliexpress so i'm not sure how sturdy they are but as of now i'm running the original coils for the bike.
     
  13. dkavanagh

    dkavanagh Well-Known Member Premium Member

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  14. dkavanagh

    dkavanagh Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I actually have an XJ650G service manual (came with my XJ550R... go figure). Here's the labeled ignition section of the wiring diagram:
    IMG_20200601_120008423.jpg
     
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  15. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Well both connectors will have an Orange and Grey wire as mentioned above for checking the resistance. The black wire on the 4 pin connector is the 12 VDC rtn wire that supplies power to the TCI. The black wire on the 6 pin connector is common to both pick-ups, so when checking resistance on the pick-ups one meter lead is connected to the black wire and the other lead will go to the orange for one pick-up and then the grey for the other pick-up to measure the resistance of the two pick-ups.
     
  16. mark lasco

    mark lasco New Member

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    i see, am i correct that the pickup coil wires (Orange, gray, black) should be connected to the six pin instead of the 4 pin?

    also, where does the black wire connect to ( the one that is connected to the 4 pin)? thank you and i do apologize if i have too many questions.
     
  17. mark lasco

    mark lasco New Member

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    I followed your wiring diagram and i dont know where the black wire in the 4-pin connector is coming from?
     

    Attached Files:

  18. mark lasco

    mark lasco New Member

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    here's a photo of my TCI, the six pin on mine is on the right side? what gives? 20200602_005338.jpg 20200602_005342.jpg
     
  19. mark lasco

    mark lasco New Member

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    It looks like the PO put a TCI that's not meant for an XJ650, upon research, this TCI is for Fz400, i think.
     
  20. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    it does not look like any of my tci should have a removable cover 4 scrws on top with label stuck to cover.
     
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