XJ600/FJ600 51J Project Advice

Wow thanks for that - I don't think I'd seen yambits before! Those parts look a lot more reasonable than some prices for kits I'd seen on wemoto (I buy from them a fair bit and I find them very good). Delighted that the calipers may be worth saving. Will give them a good clean up and hope for the best.

Wow the prices for the repair kit for the front MC are insanely different - £53.53 vs £24.99!

 

You can also use a bit of fine scotchbrite to clean teh caliper bores..

PS Did we ever establish where you are in Ireland?

 

hi Ciaran,
the prices you quoted for your parts seem a little high. as "a100man " pointed out
i get hell brakelines to come out at £98GBP for front ,direct from Hell, euros would be about 1.10 to pound at the moment.

Yamaha XJ600 (1990-) OEM Replacement Braided Brake Lines

Part No. HBF9751

£98.99

 

Thanks a million. High on my list of priorities to get those calipers rebuilt. The nissin master cylinder arrived. Have to say I'm amazed it came from Italy probably within about 36 hours of ordering.

I'm in Dublin but I'm originally from Mayo.

@bensalf My bike is registered 1990 but is a 1989 model so I think those may be slightly different. I'll shop round for the lines before I order - but I think the price for them from wemoto is actually a few quid less that direct from Hel (I was looking yesterday but don't have figures to hand).

I'll keep an eye out for a box large enough to send the crash guard and pannier frames to you - I haven't forgotten.

 

HI Ciaran

Sounds like it's coming together nicely. I know the owner of bike shop in Dublin (not well, but well enough) should you ever need close by help.

Cheers

 

Ok so I'll try and get some pics up tomorrow but pending sourcing a few parts I decided to crack on with a few jobs. I have removed the rear brake (should have done this sooner) and found it too is in a sorry state. I'm assuming it's the same as the front left caliper but didn't get a chance to do a side-by-side comparison. Given the affordability of rear brakes I'll consider getting a master cylinder and brembo caliper from the same supplier I got the new master cylinder set up from.

I decided I wanted to take the controls apart (I intend to replace all the original switchgear in time). I started on the clutch side and broke a part that I don't see in the parts diagrams. It was effectively a plastic sleeve over the handlebar with a plastic ring and essentially something akin to a rubber washer that faced up against the switchgear on the outside i.e. it would run up against 4 in the parts image below. I'm wondering if it's a non stock part that was associated with the heated grips that were on the bike previously that I don't need to worry about replacing?



If I'm honest the project has been scaring me lately and I haven't really known where to get stuck in. I'm also trying to figure out where I want to get to in the end. At this point I think I'm going to try and focus on getting the brakes sorted, new drive components, and then wheel bearings, new tyres etc. If I can take it for a very short ride at that stage I will then move on to a more complete tear down.

I know I'm getting way ahead of myself but I was looking at the rear end of the bike and I actually still quite like the proportions but my main issue is disliking the rear mudguard. I'm considering taking a hacksaw (metaphorically so) to the mudguard and sanding back to the level of the undertray. This will be a fair weather bike for short trips to cafés on the coast so I'm not concerned re water being thrown up by the rear wheel. Wondering if any one has done the same while retaining the standard rear end? I reckon it will give the bike a slightly sportier profile for no cost at all.

*Edit: This person seems to have done something similar (pic). The rear end is stock but mudguard has been trimmed.

 

HI Ciaran

If you can try and just do one or two jobs art a time then stick them back on the bike. eg. refurb front brakes - stick em back on, replace front wheel bearing - stick it back on etc.. That way you don't have to catalogue and store all the loose bits and hopefully
it won't get too disheartening. There's always more to do on these things than meets the eye - like buying an old house - it take time to uncover and correct the previous bodges. Doing the spanner work should be part of the joy f owning the machine.

PS - Mudguard? Hack away! there's not many that haven't bee shortened over time.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah I had intended to be more focused but I've been a bit stuck for some parts - TRK make a full refurb kit for the front brakes that is currently out of stock but due back in soon. It's cheaper than buying new pistons, seals etc. individually.

I have brake lines on the way too. Brakes don't worry me as I've worked on them before so I don't mind tackling other parts for now.

I'm feeling a little more confident now that I'm actually getting stuck in though. Long run the wiring is the only part that full on terrifies me but I'm coming round to the idea of using a motogadget m unit when I get to that point.

Did a crappy bit of paint work on the left bar last night to just get a sense that I'm doing something at all. Will probably strip it in future and try do a better job.

As for the plastic cap with Yamaha on it (see pic of bars) - it's damaged and I don't particularly see any reason for it. I'd rather not break it completely but I haven't been able to see a way to remove it other than brute force. Anyone know more?

 

Hey, I have just logged on after a long break from the forum and found your thread. Not mamy XJ600 bikes here
I have recently resumed my work on my 1990 XJ600.
I went with XJ550 tank and custom seat made of fibreglass.

 

@GoCrazy yours looks really well. I may have to pick your brains about the side panels - I have an idea for some but I'll possibly only go that route if I swap to pod filters.

This evening I roughly trimmed the rear mudguard back a bit but it's by no means done. When I take apart the rear end I'll bring the plastic back flush with the undertray.

As for the rear brake the pistons were well and truly stuck. As you can see in the pictures I have developed a but of a system for stuck pistons. Where one piston wants to come out and the other won't budge you can try and do something like I've done to pin the free moving piston in place - thereby forcing the opposing piston to budge under pressure from the grease gun.

In my case I actually had removed the free moving piston - the wood forms a good enough seal over the bore and as you can see - the piston came free. At least it looks like the rear brake had both seals - unlike the front.


Edit: My braided brake lines just arrived - I won't bother fitting them until I get the new seals and pistons for the brakes.

Priority for now is to clean the calipers and rebuild them when parts are available. Putting those to one side I might look at taking off the rear wheel and trying to sort that out. New bearings etc.

 

Good work - I alwsy felt that the XJ600 'deserved' the 550 (Seca) tank - looks much better. What catches my eye now is the footrest mount that looks to big and intrusive. Perhaps that can be modified or a substitute made.

I went the other route and put the 600 engine into a 550...

 

I agree re the footrest mounts. I hate them on mine too.

Tonight I'm going to make a rough template of this rear brake https://www.carpimoto.it/en-IN/5218_20516143-Brembo-Rear-Caliper-P32F.htm to check for clearances.

I think the stock rear brake had a distance between the mounting face on the caliper and dead centre of 34mm. This brake has 26mm. By my reckoning an 8mm spacer would work.

Want to have a good think about it before I spend a cent on it though.

 

hi again Ciearan,
i replied to your P.M..
so after a holiday i picked up your thread questions.
to start with your left handlebar, the washer E.T.C. near the left grip was on the earlier models, it was for a handlebar operated choke lever, with a cable to the carbs.
check if your carbs have the manual choke lever on the left side, if so ,then none of the stuff is needed
as for the plastic cap with the yamaha lettering on, it's just pressed in, that then reveals 2 screws that hold the rest of the plastic cover on
stu

 

Thanks a million. I figured out that pressed in cap last night. Had planned to do work on it today but gardening and cooking dinner got.in the way unfortunately.

 

I like that - bin the rear footpegs and mounts, chop the sticky out bit off the chainguard an you're nearly there...

 

I get the impression that rearsets are hard come by for this bike but I think a few companies make universal ones that might work - think I've seen some universal Joker Machine rearsets and maybe some Tarozzi ones.

For me, while I love the look of rearsets compared to the XJs standard set up - they'll have a knock on impact on how I fit on the bike. It would mean I'd have to find a way to mount different handlebars and at a minimum trim (if not completely remove) the fairing.

I kind of want to draw some inspiration from vintage endurance racers but do something a bit tamer. Maybe if I get the bike fully roadworthy and performing well I'll push on and fit a sportier fairing and look at clip ons etc.

But yeah, @GoCrazy that could work really well on yours. In the long run I hope to try and make a simple (simple design but I'm sure I'll find it a nightmare to make if I get that far) metal chain guard for the XJ.

 

@Ciarán my side covers are custom made from fibreglass. Pretty Simple job I would say, although a bit messy.

I am going to make custom rear set, but first I want to take the bike to the road. Rear sets are not a top priority.

I am on vacation now, but just pefore I left I had picked up tripple trees from powdercoating

 

@GoCrazy I'm looking forward to seeing more stuff from you. I may steal some ideas from you down the line.

I did a few hours work today:

• I made a bit of a mistake the other day and ended up having a bit of a fight to get a piston out of the rear caliper but after a lot of head scratching I succeeded. Rear brakes are in very nice condition actually but I'm out of brake cleaner. I have picks arriving in the next few days (to clean out behind the seals) as well as some other odds and ends - tools wise.
• I had the bars off and did a quick rattle can job on them as well as the scuffed clutch lever (I'll replace it down the line to an adjustable one matching my new brake lever). I'll be busy for a few days but that'll allow the paint to cure a bit (I will get them painted properly in future but I just wanted to see how they'd look freshened up).
• I got the bike hooked up to a trickle charger (should have done that sooner!).
• Removed the naff plastic chain guard. I'm determined to try and make a very simple metal one down the line (perhaps with some Simpsons inspired speed holes).

So my priorities for now are:

• Getting more brake cleaner and making sure I have the calipers gleaming
  
• Sourcing a rebuild kit for the front brakes - I'll be replacing one or two pistons at a minimum so the TRK kit will be better value in the long run - just have to wait for it to be restocked (spoke to a sales rep and they are restocking it in the next few weeks). When I'm buying that I'll also source a rebuild kit for the rear master cylinder.
  
• Getting the rear wheel off and refurbished
• Refitting both bars, switchgear (I fully intend to replace the switchgear down the line), and controls.
• Finding a way to get the bike's weight off the front wheel - I bought a paddock stand for the front that just doesn't want to work.
• Fit my new clutch and throttle cables.

 

hi Ciar'an
just a point on the clutch lever, if you have the original clutch lever mount "perch". then you can see it is angled upwards towards the lever, then the lever itself had a bend in it to bring it level again, this is to allow the clutch cable to angle downwards.
so if you try to fit an aftermarket lever on the perch ,it will point steeply upwards, (ask me how i know ) . i ended getting a perch off a honda i think, but any straight one will do.
stu

 

Thanks a million for that. I'll keep an eye out for an appropriate set up down the line but for now the stock one will do - the cosmetics don't really matter until I have the mechanicals sorted.

 

Sińce you are overhauking your brakes, I would recommend replacing the master cylinder with a newer one from FZR600 or other Yamaha. The rebuild kit for FJ600 is around 50 USD.

 

Cheers, I took a bit of a risk and opted for a brand new nissin master cylinder. I decided to go new as I had initially thought I'd have to bin my master cylinder - meaning I'd have to buy and probably refurb a second hand unit. Buying new was a similar cost and much less hassle and got me what I wanted in terms of a remote reservoir and adjustable lever.

 

i like that lever setup a lot , i may go down that road on this project, where did you get it , and (all important) how much>
stu

 

I really like the design of FJ600 stock reservoir - the "coffin" shape and Yamaha logo on it. I was going to powdercoat it and polish the "Yamaha", but 50 bucks without shopping is way to much for me

 

I got it here https://www.carpimoto.com/en-RU/Bra...B-Nissin-16mm-Axial-Brake-Master-Cylinder.htm - currently out of stock though. They have it for less in silver or grey though depending on what you want:
https://www.carpimoto.com/en-RU/Bra...B-Nissin-16mm-Axial-Brake-Master-Cylinder.htm
https://www.carpimoto.com/en-RU/Bra...8-Nissin-16mm-Axial-Brake-Master-Cylinder.htm

I looked up a few reviews (their prices seemed too good to be true) but the reviews were positive. Their shipping was crazy fast too.

Hopefully it won't provide massively different performance to the stock MC.

 

Spent a few hours on it today and removed the rear wheel. There was a ludicrous amount of crud and grease build up on the swingarm that the chain was actually rubbing on if you spin the rear wheel.

I managed to get the rear wheel partially disassembled but met with one bolt for the disc that was truly stuck on. The head of the bolt was already a little rounded and unfortunately my efforts didn't help. Now I'm in a situation of trying to figure out how best to remove it.

I put the handlebars and switch gear back in place and while I have power generally - lights etc. I seem to have lost ignition. She won't even try and turn over. I didn't want to get hung up on this as running the bike isn't my priority at the moment.

 

Heat and candle wax.
Heat the bolt, apply the wax so it melts in good, and let it cool a tad before turning.

A 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone will work just as well (no heat required), but takes a bit longer to do the job.

If the head is too buggered to get a good grip have a nut welded onto it. The heat from welding will break the bolt free.

 

I would try welding the biggest nut you can fit on the bolt. Hammer it z few times. Alternatively, you can ask around your local shops if they have a induction heater for seized bolts, take the wheel to them. I have seen this device im action and works like a charms.

 

Induction heater is brilliant.

 

Heat is your friend. a MAP gas torch will get hotter than butane too. You can also try hammer and a punch (or small blunt chisel) to knock it round. Lots of smaller taps is the idea - like a rattle impact gun.

 

Wow, thanks for all the advice everyone. I'm inclined to buy a small inverter welder (I've never welded nor have I any knowledge on the subject) but it seems likely that I'm going to have to do other small bits of fabrication on this project. I was considering having my mechanic (nice guy) take a stab at it given he'd be better equipped than me but I can't go doing that every time I had encounter a stripped head on a bolt (both impractical and costly in the long run).

No harm learning how to do very basic welding I suppose!

*The bolts were fitted with loctite so I'm fortunate that 5 out of 6 worked. I know it's fairly normal to use loctite but jeez the stuff is a pain!

 

Not on those bolts it isn't. Are the retaining tabs missing? Each pair of bolts has a thin plate behind them with tabs that are bent up to keep the bolts from backing out. If those are MIA I suggest getting replacements so you don't have to deal with locktite again in that location.

If it is just the locktite holding them in all you need to do is get the heat on them to soften it. The high strength stuff softens up at 400ºF.

 

there are'nt any retaining plates on the 600, they are round button head alen bolts on the discs.
https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4064707/xj600-3km1-1989-999-a/front-brake-caliper

 

Oh. Well then I'm wrong, again

 

NO! don't get a 'stick' welder. Spend the money on a second hand MIG like a Clarke ProMIG 90, much more verstaile. Use 'pub gas' (C02) to keep the costs down.

NO harm at all - but you WILL need an auto darkening shield too.

 

Further to that, gasless mig welding is the cheapest way to get started, but gasless mig wire is so variable it's no surprise that many try it, see the crap results and give up. The key to successful gasless migging is good quality wire.
When it comes to using gas with mig, CO2, as mentioned is the the cheapest gas to use and you get good results with it. However, in Ireland it's not ususally quite so easy to get hold of pub CO2, so I use fire extinguisher refills and have them refilled by a bloke in Wicklow - he likely covers Dublin, too.
"Proper" mig gas is nice to have, but the setup costs here are eye-watering. I get pretty good results with CO2 and bear in mind that for years that's all that was used in industry.

 

Sign up for am introductory welding class if you can.
Alternatively, this is a great channel with a professional instructor: UCM0kHJXSHR1k1wtLuliKmHg

Learn How to Flux Core Weld: FCAW Basics | MIG Monday

GAS SHIELDED FLUX CORE WELDING FOR BEGINNERS Weld.com Weld.com Verified • 121K views 1 year ago

 

Stick welding is nice, but it has some limitations. From my own experience I can tell you that it is much easier to learn some basic welding using MIG welder. Stick or MMA welding is good for "heavier" stuff, and getting it to tack weld things in a bike projects requires some skill. It will take you some time before you learn how to ignite and maintain the spark etc.... While with MIG you can just watch a YT clip with basic instructions how to set up your welder and you are good to go do some tacking.

For beginners - I would recommend do some tack welding of all the stuff around your bike and have a pro finish it up. You don't want your frame to play a trick on you while you are trying to impress a lady

 

..wise words.

 

If I'm honest welding is a skill I'd rather not to have to try and develop - I hope not to have to do much so any level of investment is probably excessive.

If we're talking about a large investment for me to weld a nut to a stuck bolt or possibly to fab a relocated battery box at some stage then it's probably more cost effective to work around these issues using other fixes and where welding is required - to get someone who knows what they're doing to do it for me.

I'm going to try one or two alternative approaches on the stuck bolt this evening and see if I have any luck.

 

Here in the US of A, I use a mix of gases, 75% argon and 25% it's fairly cheap, and MIG is easy to learn.
Cheers, 50gary

 

@50gary meant 75% argon, 25%co2. Or is it the other way 'round? Damnit, I should know this...

 

Hi folks, just wanted to say the project isn't dead but it has been halted for a bit. I was thrown a bit by what to do with stuck bolts - given that I don't want to invest heavily in tools that I might never need again. On top of that life has been a bit hectic - work has involved a few late evenings lately and I'm interviewing for something else in the near future. I also don't have the good fortune to have a network of friends nearby who might have the tools or expertise to help me out. So, I spoke to my mechanic and he has said he'll take care of removing the stuck bolts for me but I need to arrange to get the parts to him (problems of only owning a motorcycle).

I went back to the bike today and just took to cleaning some parts - I have the sprocket cover off and you wouldn't believe the amount of crud on the swingarm and in behind the cover. I won't claim that it's spotless now but it's a lot easier to see what I'm working with. Once I get the rear wheel back with a new tyre on it I'll try to prop the bike's frame so I can work on the front end. Once I get the wheels rebuilt I'll look at a more substantial tear down. I mainly want to focus on getting specific jobs done first before moving on - I know I'll have to take most of it apart again when I go to paint it.

Also, curious about a post I read on here a long time ago re swapping our the upper triple tree clamp yoke - I read something saying the radian 600 is a direct swap but would enable bar swaps (https://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/xj600-51j-riser.28167/). Just wondering if anyone knows more?

I guess having started the project I'm realising I may have bitten off a bit more than I can chew. I thought the bike' condition was fairly good - and in fairness I still believe it is - but I think I overestimated my ability to learn on this project. I really should have gotten something like a little 125, or a dirtbike to mess around with before tackling something this big. My savings are in a fairly healthy condition so part of me is thinking of farming out some jobs subject to price.

 

hi , Ciar'an,
glad to hear from you again.
iv'e had these raisers bolted on to the original yokes for a few years now on my "standard" xj600 without any problems ,or drilling . they bolt straight on top of the serrations, with a thick stainless steel "penny" washer between them. i put some chrome 4" rise handlebars on, this was much better for me, as i only have short arms

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universa...42919de17e9e8dd10ed2|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2334524

 

Stuck bolts don't require special tools (usually).
Soak with a 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone.
Leave for a few days.
Use a breaker bar or a cheater on your wrench.

No need to farm out work (hopefully). We'll help you learn.

 

Short arms and long pockets? The Yorkshire way isn't it..

Don't get me wrong - no-one is more fiscally prudent than I.

 

Yes, you van change the upper triple clamp for a radian one, we did so and no problem at all.

 

Billy Connolly said copper wire was invented by two Scotsmen fighting over a penny . Now that is frugal lol.

 

Argon +25% CO2 in the US is what I call dirt cheap I have three bottles total, all are 125 cubic feet each. Two are pure argon for TIG and third is the Argon CO2 mix. the CO2 help the arc to "burn in a bit more effectively than pure Argon. For home welding these will last a long time.
My MIG welder is a Miller 212 (the blue ones) and new price was $1300.00 it will last a normal lifetime. 225 amps low end of professional. Used it's easy to find Miller or Lincoln (the Red ones) for $500/$600 on craigslist, some are virtually new.
Some guys will buy them for a job and resell them. I would rather buy a good used Miller or Lincoln than an off brand new, (brands in the UK will no doubt be different) I seen several so low priced that I've. nearly bought them to resell at a profit, shop around. It's only costly if you don't use it. I mention this just to give an idea of the costs of getting into welding. I've never heard of "pub" CO2 but then again I've never been to Ireland?
Cheers, 50gary

 

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