1. Hello Guest. You have limited privileges and you can't "SEARCH" the forums. Please "Log In" or "Sign Up" for additional functionality. Click HERE to proceed.

Hello from Oregon!

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by StarGeneral, Jul 2, 2020.

  1. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    It seems my final drive is leaking out of it's main oil seal, as when I took the rear wheel off the bike (with the FD attached), and let the axle point itself at the floor, it leaked oil from the part where the final drive bolts to the swing arm assembly. From what I've read though some other threads, this means my main oil seal is toast, and most don't advise replacing it because of the difficulty involved (really?). Do I really need to get a new final drive unit to fix this problem?

    It kinda makes sense that it's leaking because I noticed the breather doesn't stay on well at all (they're supposed to be a press fit), and someone tried to build up a bunch of RTV around the breather hole so it wouldn't fall off haha). I'm guessing they probably plugged the breather and it blew the seal.

    I could see from the factory service manual that there are some special tools involved so maybe I'm SOL, idk.
     
  2. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    I ended up buying a used final drive for about 19 bucks, the coupler area was dry and there was no leaks on the unit pre-cleaning. I cleaned it, painted it up just like the other one and slapped it on there. Now I just need to get a new inner shaft seal for the driveshaft and we will be basically ready to roll minus putting the engine back in and getting that hooked up :)
     
  3. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Update: got the inner shaft seal, going to install that this weekend. This past weekend I worked on fitting a replacement airbox (the fiberglass repair on my old one went south, and it wasn't worth my time to clean and re-attempt). Cleaned the rubber boots and treated them with Len's carb diaphragm renewal serum - also the driveshaft boot.

    I ran into some issues this week. I popped the valve cover to check shims and re-seal, and discovered 3 of the valve cover bolt holes were stripped completely out. Seems to be a common problem due to the aluminum head and the spec not being in in-lbs.
    I got a helicoil kit for these (M6 x1) coming this week and will have to pop the cover, clean the surface and re-seal again. Shouldn't be a huge deal, but I did use hi-tack on both sides of the gasket instead of just the cover side...so a little cleaning is in order.

    New to-do list:

    Bleed brakes (Day 1)
    Adjust air level on forks (Day 1)
    Helicoil valve cover bolt holes and re-install cover (Day 1)
    Torque spark plugs (Day 1)
    Install engine into frame & torque to spec (Day 1)
    Install carbs, control cables and hoses (Day 2)
    Hook up engine electrical bits (Day 2)
    Adjust new swing arm bearings (Day 2)
    Install new seal on driveshaft, install driveshaft and u-joint (Day 2)
    Torque all rear-end to spec (U-joint bolts, final drive to swingarm mount bolts, rear axle pinch bolt and castle nut, torque rod) (Day 3)
    Mount battery and terminal connections (Day 3)
    Fill final drive oil (Day 3)
    Fit filter + fill engine oil (Day 3)
    Paint exhaust and fit for bake-in (Day 3)
    Lube control cables (Day 3)
    Startup (Day 3)
     
  4. tj.

    tj. Active Member

    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Canada
    Your to do list is very organized....3 days of fun. Love the "mars bar" scheme on you bike!
     
    StarGeneral likes this.
  5. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Got the helicoils installed in the block. It was a bit hair raising drilling into the soft aluminum but I got them installed. When I went to install the valve cover I couldn't get any of the helicoils to thread in very easily past the tang in the bottom. maybe I didn't totally break it off with my punch or the holes were a bit cock-eyed. I cranked them down until I could see the valve cover contact the "ridge" of the gasket and didn't crack the head so I'm calling it good. I replaced all the rubber grommets and made sure the mating surface was clean as a whistle...applied some hi-tack on the sealing surface for extra insurance.

    The nice paint on my final drive lifted and cracked all over so I had to strip that yesterday. Of course this happened after I got the rear all torqued to spec, so I decided to paint it on the bike and mask everything off. It took a long time but I got a fresh coat of paint on it that (fingers crossed) won't lift like before.

    Had some issues installing the rear wheel and getting everything torqued down....the castle nut was sitting too far below the cotter pin hole once everything was fully torqued down. Ended up following this procedure I found on the forum:

    1. Tighten the pinch bolt with the hole in the spindle fully outside the shoulder of the pinch joint.
    2. Torque the castle nut to spec and secure with cotter pin (ben cotter pin to fit inside castle nut if they don't exactly fit inside the castle nut grooves
    3. Slacken and re-tighten the pinch bolt to relieve pressure on the swing arm and let the axle "seat" where it is most happy.

    Hopefully this doesn't cause any issues. I remember when I took the wheel off the bike the first time that it seemed like the axle was way too far inboard on the right hand side near the pinch bolt. You couldn't get a screwdriver shaft into the spindle hole to extract it and this doesn't match what the pictures in the manual show. The manual always shows the spindle hole being just fully exposed beyond the pinch bolt. Not sure why mine wants to go inside. I triple checked that the all the bearings and spacers were correctly installed.
     
  6. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Alrightyyy....update. This is going to be a long one, and I'm sorry but I feel the need to document my struggles (maybe it makes me feel better).

    This weekend was supposed to be the weekend I put the finishing touches on and rode, but my to-do list above wasn't as organized or detailed as it seems. Let's go through this step by step:

    Bleed brakes (Day 1) - I have spent about 5-6 hours so far attempting to bleed the brake system with a vacuum pump. I started with a rebuilt MC, rebuilt calipers, rebuilt anti-dives, an empty distribution block and empty lines so it makes sense there would be quite a bit of air in the system. I rigged a "IV system" up to the MC so that I could fill the lower half of a 2-litre bottle with brake fluid, and have a line attached on a nipple running down to a rubber cap on the MC fill neck. This worked wonderfully and I was able to see the level fall in the bottle as I attempted to bleed the system. However, I ran into some challenges:
    • The right anti-dive unit's bleed screw (the screw which directly faces the fork leg and is impossible to adjust without removal of the brake piston portion of the Anti-dive valve) started leaking once fluid began to flow through the lower lines. I was able to get away with not having to disassemble everything by simple detaching the braking portion of the anti-dive valve and maneuvering it out of the way. I tried tightening the bleed screw but it still leaked. I tried lock-tite but there was too much brake fluid on the threads for it to cure and no way to stop fluid from flowing, so I had to turn to Teflon tape. I know Teflon tape has no place in brake lines, but it was the only thing that stopped the leak. Hopefully because this is a bleed screw this won't come back to bite me in the ass.
    • When I initially began to bleed I noticed my brake lever was moving freely without springing back into place. This was due to a sticky brake piston within the MC which I was able to dislodge. I am 100% certain the brake MC was put back together properly during the rebuild, and with a light smearing of the red assembly grease on the piston bore and rubber seals, but I guess the cylinder is a bit tighter than anticipated even after I bored it out (or the lack of brake fluid being present in the chamber for 1-3 weeks while it sat was enough to make it bind in place). The piston is also prone to getting stuck in place if the system has a vacuum on it and the brake lever is depressed. If this occurs while I'm testing the brake lever for building pressure, I have to crack a bleeder and wait about a minute for it to slowly return to position.
    • Despite my best efforts, and using an appropriately sized tube on the bleeder valves, I continue to pull quite a few bubbles through the line. This is after going through a bottle of brake fluid maybe 4-5 times. Considering I have no leaks at the MC, and all banjo bolts are torqued exactly to spec (which new crush washers as well), I sincerely doubt I have a leak in the lines or fittings. The only place I'm not sure of is the small steel brake line which runs from the MC to the distribution block. I noticed a lot more bubbles if I cracked the bleeder more than a quarter turn, or moved the hose attached to the nipple. I was able to overcome 95% of the bubbles induced that way by teflon taping the bleeder threads, and putting a smear of silicone grease on each of the bleeder nipples, however I am still seeing way too many bubbles over an extended period of time and the lever is not getting harder. (I can see the brake piston move on each side, but not enough to force the brake pads into contact with the rotor.
    • I have looked over the entire system and cannot find evidence of a fluid leak anywhere, so I'm not sure how I would go about isolating a leak. One would think that if an air leak was present, there would also be fluid present or at least some sort of "sucking" sound along the lines. What I may end up doing is smearing something on the joints and putting a vacuum on the system and just put my ear to various areas...
    Adjust air level on forks (Day 1) - WIP
    Helicoil valve cover bolt holes and re-install cover (Day 1) - COMPLETE, but with some difficulty as the helicoils may not have been 100% straight.
    Torque spark plugs (Day 1) - COMPLETE
    Install engine into frame & torque to spec (Day 1) - COMPLETE, but I'll need to re-do this because I can't get the carbs in.
    Install carbs, control cables and hoses (Day 2) - WIP
    Hook up engine electrical bits (Day 2) - COMPLETE
    Adjust new swing arm bearings (Day 2) - COMPLETE (The book tells you to secure the adjustment bolt with an allen key WHILE you tighten the top nut, but there's no logical way to do this without specialized tools, as your socket covers the adjuster lol)
    Install new seal on driveshaft, install driveshaft and u-joint (Day 2) - COMPLETE
    Torque all rear-end to spec (U-joint bolts, final drive to swingarm mount bolts, rear axle pinch bolt and castle nut, torque rod) (Day 3) - COMPLETE
    • As mentioned before, I had some difficulty with this but managed to get it to a spot where it should be safe and I am happy. I ended up having to torque to spec and then back off a turn to get the castle nut into a position where the cotter pin would catch. From what I have seen others do, it seems the torque spec is to get everything to "seat" in place, then you back off a hair to secure the castle nut, otherwise it's too tight for the wheel to turn.
    Mount battery and terminal connections (Day 3) - WIP
    Fill final drive oil (Day 3) - COMPLETE
    Fit filter + fill engine oil (Day 3) - WIP
    Paint exhaust and fit for bake-in (Day 3) - WIP
    Lube control cables (Day 3) - WIP
    Startup (Day 3) - WIP

    Im taking a rest day as the bike kicked my ass yesterday (in terms of my body taking a beating). I'd welcome any advice on the above struggles.

    EDIT: I just finished reading through Joejr2's thread "struggling with 81 750 seca front brakes" and I think I'm going to give the traditional bleeding method a go now that everything should be 97% filled with fluid. If I still get bubbles then I will know it's probably not a leak at the bleeders.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2021
  7. Huntchuks

    Huntchuks Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    950
    Likes Received:
    395
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    East Rochester, NY
    Pull your brake lever continuously to slowly move your pistons and pads to the rotor. I just rebuilt my sons brake calipers on his Vulcan and it took quite awhile to move the pistons all the way in.
     
    StarGeneral likes this.
  8. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Update: I kicked ass today. The bike is completely reassembled and I got to turn it over with the starter. Only items left as follows:

    • Bleed right side anti dive and caliper, test for lever pressure.
    • Rinse tank out with fresh gas, and fill er up (set petcock to PRI)
    • Paint and bake in header pipes.
    • Align front forks and secure pinch bolt and top hex bolts
    • Startup??
     
  9. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Good morning! I volunteered to work Memorial Day so I can't wrench on the bike until I'm off for the day, but I was out there yesterday.
    I managed to get the brakes mostly bled last weekend but still don't have the lever pressure I would expect. The brakes don't seem to engage until the lever is at the end of its stroke. I've tried adjusting the lever itself but that doesn't seem to be the issue. This was after following the vibratory sander procedure as well...so I'm hoping I won't have to bleed again but I suspect I might. I did make sure the brake fluid level only touches the bottom of the filler neck. Curious though if this level needs to be super precise, and whether it should be measured on the centerstand or when leaning to the left...?

    Anyway, besides that I got the exhaust painted and mounted, broke the wiring in my right rear turn signal while trying to troubleshoot it, ended up re-doing that wiring as a result which fixed the original problem (LOL). Replaced my missing tail light bulb, and the second horn miraculously started working again!

    Unfortunately, It wasn't all roses. Right now the bike is not running well...at all...which is a HUGE bummer because that is the one thing that was working great with the bike 6-7 months ago.

    Trying not to complicate things, I thought about what I've changed since the bike was put back together that was fuel/air related, and there are some things to note.

    1. Before the bike was taken apart, the air filter was not seated properly inside the airbox, meaning air was rushing straight past the filter. Now that the filter is engaged and hasn't been cleaned, it's probably not pulling the proper flow.
    2. I changed the petcock to an aftermarket style that I commonly see posted about in this forum. I suspect this petcock isn't pushing the right amount of fuel at idle, causing some fuel starvation issues.
    3. I added an in-line fuel filter and new vac and fuel line.

    As far as the startup behavior goes, if the bike is cold, it starts right up with the choke fully engaged, however it will not run after 5-10 minutes with the choke disengaged more than an eighth of a turn (idles starts to creep down after about 5-10 minutes).
    The idle is somewhat erratic and tends to "wander" from 1.2k all the way to 3 or 4k depending on choke engagement and giving her throttle, sometimes the throttle seems to "stick" for a bit which is odd as well, as I see no binding in the throttle cable or mechanism during operation. After about 10 minutes time, I can hear popping coming from the exhaust (probably unburnt fuel), and the idle starts to creep down. If I don't keep the choke engaged and keep giving it throttle, the bike will slowly start to die.

    I have been through this process three times and it always takes roughly the same amount of time for the bike to die. If I try to start it right away afterwards, it wont fire at all, just turn over. If I leave the petcock on PRI for twenty minutes or so and come back, then I am able to start it again - to me this points to a fuel starvation issue as it appears to be pulling fuel through the line, but I'm willing to bed the fuel level in the float bowls creeps down steadily as time goes on until the demand for fuel overcomes the amount of flow provided by the petcock. I removed my fuel filter from the equation and the behavior is the same.

    Today I'm going to clean up and throw the OEM petcock on and see if there's any improvement (also clean the air filter). Based on those results I'll start looking at other things.

    Bonus conundrum:
    When I sit on the bike with it not running, I'm only able to shift freely between 1st and Neutral - is this an issue? I've compared my clutch cable adjustment to pictures taken before removal and it is adjusted exactly the same....
     
  10. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Any thoughts about the last post? Especially about the brake lever travel? If I observe the armature inside the rubber boot that pushes on the MC piston, the brake lever only really gets "rock hard" near the absolute end of the piston travel, I'm just not sure if that's "normal" or not. I have no baseline reference for "normal" (and neither does PO since he had broken front brake system the whole time). How far should the brake lever need to be pulled for the brakes to be fully engaged?

    I am planning to play around with spraying some carb cleaner near the boot mating surfaces and in between the carbs to check for vac leaks.

    If I need to take these carbs to church I will, but this bike was running like a top less than three months ago so I'm reluctant to go through that effort right away.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
  11. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Update: Petcock wasn't the issue. I tried the OEM petcock but it was leaking even after I gave it some TLC so I threw the aftermarket one back on. Seems like idle speed wasn't adjusted right, or got slightly out of adjustment. Need to check carb sync to see where I'm at as I feel the idle is set a bit too high. Bike will idle alright around 1300 rpm with choke off once it warms off, but any lower than that and it starts to sound sad. It kinda sounds like it's not running on all cylinders but hard to tell - might have to try the temp gun trick on the headers.

    Bike was running better sans-air-filter, and now is running decent with the air filter properly cleaned out and oiled up.

    Still need to figure out why it dies in gear but I suspect an issue with the sidestand relay. I'm going to try pulling it and see where that gets me initially.

    The brake system still isn't performing as well as I'd like so I see pulling the MC to re-hone the piston bore in my near future.
     
  12. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    I took her on her first ride today!!! Just a short around the block a few times, etc. Got up to third gear and the longer I rode it the better it started running.

    The issue with the spongy brake was the MC not being bench bled when I installed it. I adjusted the lever all the way out for free play and started pumping the brake handle like mad. Gradually, the engagement started to move further and further to the beginning of the lever travel. I kept a close eye on the brake fluid level and kept adjusting the cable until I had a firm handle.

    The clutch issue was due to a seemingly bad side stand relay. I pulled the relay and was able to shift the bike into gear, ride around, etc.

    I know this is the beginning of the ownership road but today was a huge milestone.
     
    chacal likes this.
  13. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
     
    Franz and chacal like this.
  14. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    I've been out riding a time or two since uploading that last video, and unfortunately my brakes have sprung a leak (several, actually). Despite using new crush washers on my banjo bolts (and tightening them to spec), I had a leak from one of the banjo bolts on the right side, as well as leaks from both brake caliper bleeder screws around the threads (not the nipple). I've tried tightening all, but in general the caliper bleed screws are surely tighter than 7 ft/lbs and are still leaking from around the threads. I've heard that the thread is not the sealing surface, but the seat of the needle, and so it's possible I could either have some corrosion in my seat or a possible the bleeder screw tips themselves(?). Anyway, I'm going to have to pull those bleeders and see what's up, which likely means bleeding the system alllllll over again. *sigh
     
  15. stevemex

    stevemex New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    California
    Tear. It would appear that my document have erased every one of the pics. In any case, I'll transfer a video gathering when it's assembled back. A couple of ends of the week to go at this point..... Presently not running the guard grille simply because I hit a thick tree limb that annihilated Safety Vest the grille and broke the guard and I just eliminated it and never tried supplanting it.
     
  16. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Uhh, welcome to my thread! Hahaha.

    Today I got my brakes wrapped up. I still had leaks after bleeding and suprise surpise, it was the stupid bleeder plugs on the anti-dive units again. The left side one was the offender this time. I took it out and inspected the seat - didn't look good, and no matter how tight I tightened it up with the allen wrench, it wasn't sealing at all. Since I didn't really see a solution to this, but knew the metal of the bleeder plug is harder than the body itself...i only saw 1 way out - had to risk it for the biscuit....

    Cleaned it out with some carb cleaner and a rag tip (didn't have q-tips), put my allen-head socket on my ratchet and cranked that sucker down until it more or less cut a new seat. Firm handle now, and no leaks on either side. I figured 50/50 of success. I would NOT recommend going this route to anyone else I just didn't know any other way of fixing the seat for the bleed screw inside since it was already marred....and I had already rebuilt my anti-dive unit on that side anyway so I was kinda all-in on the existing units...

    Motorcycle shop says 5 day turnaround for mounting new tires. That's way too slow for me, so I'm learning to do it myself. Zip tie method seems to be the way to go as I don't have tire irons of my own.
     
  17. Natedogg1123

    Natedogg1123 Member

    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    StarGeneral I see your in Oregon! What part. I'm up in the Portland Area. Be awesome to see your bike and swap bike stories. Rebuilt mine from the ground up. Still working out the kinks on my carburetor though.
     
  18. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Hey man! I'm down in Springfield/Eugene area. Let me know if you're ever in the area maybe we can grab a beer. I'm pretty new to motorcycle stuff but also basically rebuilt my bike from the ground up, so that's about the only story I have to tell at the moment :p
     
  19. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Latest update: I got the front tire off the front wheel and OH MY GOD someone went crazy with the Slime. I'm so glad I decided to change that tire because 1) it was definitley older than the rear tire (which still has the tits but is 7 years old now), and 2) it was PACKED with Slime. I spent a large portion of the day removing the front tire and cleaning all that crap off the rim. I then noticed how beat up and scratched the rim is. It probably had problems sealing so they filled it with Slime LOL.

    I wet-sanded the inside of the rim with 220, 600, and 1000 grit sandpaper till I got most of the rough spots out, but I suspect it's still going to need some bead sealer with the new tire. I decided to just have a shop mount the new tires because I don't want to go through the trouble of balancing them, and I'd like to have them balanced if I'm putting new tires on.

    So here's the FUN part about my tire change. I ordered what I should have ordered, but what should fit, doesn't.
    Keen-eyed observers may have spotted a mismatched rear wheel on my bike from prior photos/videos, and you are correct. It's not an XJ750 wheel....so what is it??? The 120/90-18 that the SECA calls for on the rear was way too slim and tall for this rear wheel.

    Well...she may be more of a Franken-bike than I thought. This rear wheel is in fact from an 85 or newer XJ700. I have no idea of the usual interchange between these rims, but it takes a 130/90-16 size tire. Quite a bit shorter and fatter than the standard XJ750 tire. Maybe they swapped the final drive gear at some point to make it mate up??? IDK, all I know is it fits and they'd been riding with that wheel for about a decade before the bike came into my hands, so I've got a 130/90-16 tire on the way :D
     
  20. StarGeneral

    StarGeneral Active Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Bikes gots fresh D404s on the front and rear. Front brake system finally leak-free. The anti-dive bleeder plugs (not bleeder screws) ended up being the biggest contributor to the brake system leaks. I really had to crank those in to get them to stop leaking. Handle is firm now after a re-bleed and keeping the handle tied down.

    Unfortunately, one or more of the disc rotors appears to be warped as I'm getting some pretty big pulsing in braking at high speeds (50+mph). I have two used rotors on the way that are thicker than my current ones, so hoping to get those installed before my next ride.

    Thinking about installing some crash bars soon as I dropped the bike (somewhat gently) trying to get it up on the center stand the other day when I was pretty tired.

    My valve cover is leaking on the front left side...which really sucks because I used a fresh gasket, fresh donuts, not too much torque, etc. From what I can see, the gasket squished slightly out of place when I tightened it down right in the corner. I'll have to see if I can re-clean everything and try sealing it again.

    Start clutch is iffy. If the bike gets real hot it tends to skip a lot, which is a problem when the bike doesn't want to idle super well after it warms up. I have to run my hot idle around 1500 to prevent it from stalling when I let out the clutch slowly.

    I also have a performance issue where the bike will suddenly start to run on 3 cylinders (seemingly) after it warms up which really sucks.

    Oh well, I'm enjoying myself so far. Just waiting for this heat wave to pass so I can spend more time in the garage :)
     

Share This Page