e10 introduction over here

hi all
the uk is about to introduce petrol with an increase in the ethanol content to 10% up from 5%, this is due to be introduced from September onwards. i know you guys in the us have had this for a while, so do you need to do any mods on these old bikes,
i have 2 x 1989 xj600's , and one 1990 xj600, also a 1990 Goldwing.
will i need to do any mods, or do i look for the higher octane fuel

 

If you look around enough, you will find every opinion from "My bike runs fine on ethanal fuel" all the way to "I won't let ethanol fuel anywhere near my bike".

Here's my $.02:
- There are many different regions in the U.S. that have different fuel formulation requirements, and then within those there are seasonal requirements. So some of the differences in opinion may be explainable by where and when someone in the States purchased fuel.
- I think some differences in how ethanol effects bikes may have to do with how well the bike is tuned in the first place - I have experienced this first hand. A poorly running bike will run really poorly on ethanol, while a bike with a decent tune to start with will have less problems, see next item.
- My experience here in MN is that ethanol DOES effect how the bike runs. In my case, assuming the bike is running well in the first place, I really only notice that the idle speed is a little lower. If I were to run ethanol fuel all the time I can adjust the idle accordingly.

Here in MN, "regular" gas must contain at least 10% ethanol (mostly corn based), and has been that way for a long time. Some gas stations will still sell a "premium" fuel with no ethanol (more $$ of course). Myself, I have a favorite station I fill up at that offers non-ethanol fuel, and I use that as much as I can.

I would guess that if your bikes are well tuned to begin with, you should be able to fine tune to account for the ethanol. The bigger concern I would have would be any bits in the fuel system that could be harmed by the stuff (esp. rubber parts).

 

I run it all the time with no problems, and apparently no reduction in miles per gal. I have run a couple of tanks of ethanol free and have not seen any difference. I think the problem with ethanol gas is that it can absorb water if it sits too long. If you ride regularly that won't be a problem.

 

For sure - you don't want that stuff in anything if its going to be in storage for a while. Either drain or fill with non-ethanol before storage. Goes for the snowthrower before summer storage as well.

 

Yep. Around here the fuel has been adulterated with 5% ethanol for years, and I've been wary of leaving half-filled fuel containers idle for ages, especially on power tools, like power washers and gensets. A couple of years ago I started dosing everything with either Stabil or Briggs fuel stabilisers, in the hope they'd both preserve a bit of the fuel's long term stability and keep the ethanol in suspension.
Apart from that, I intend to get in some methanol to use as dry-gas, and when a bike (or anything) has been sitting for a while, I'll dump in a few mls in the hope it might mop up any free water and get it through the combustion process.

 

The introduction of more ethanol per volume of gasoline, actually increases the octane level. Regardless, at the pumps if it's labelled 87 octane (in North America the octane rating is measured differently than Europe) with 0% or 5% or 10%, it is still 87 octane.

Or perhaps I've misunderstood, is all the higher octane fuel in the UK non-ethanol?

 

I have a UK 1980 Yamaha XJ650. Obviously manufactured prior to unleaded fuel being available in the UK. I remember being concerned about running it on unleaded. It was pointed out to me that unleaded fuel was first used in Japan in 1972, therefore, bikes were manufactured to run on it. Yamaha UK also confirmed this to be the case.

In the UK, the higher octane of the two UL fuels usually available at the pumps will continue to have only 5% ethanol compared to 10% in the lower octane fuel.

For awhile now, I've been using the higher octane stuff and will continue to do so.

"Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland). We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland."

 

Surprised you got a coherent reply to a question directed to Esso.
Last time I made a technical enquiry, all I got was a load of boggocks about how their fuel complies with EU reg this, that and the other, and left me no wiser.

 

Esso Fuels, Synergy Fuels | Esso

 

So, reading between the lines, they're claiming that Synergy Supreme+ has some PEA in it (or something similar).
Which was all I wanted to know a couple of years ago, but some useless droid couldn't give me a straight answer.
As it happened anyway, Esso have more or less left the Irish market, so when I get the chance I use Texaco, which contains PEA, and when I fill up locally I add some of my own PEA.

 

No mods. Just use a fuel stabilizer when she gets parked for the winter.
I've used E10 in several vehicles for over 30 years with no problem as log as winter/ storage maintenance is done.

FWIW I left my (well missed except for the MPG) '83 GMC 2500 pickup sitting for three years with E10 in both tanks (20 gallons each), and forgot to treat the fuel. A dash of ether and she fired right up, and never missed a beat for the next 20 K miles, including the drive from Oregon to Kansas.

 

Ethanol is alcohol plain and simple, simplest way to explain this is that it has a lower Flashpoint than regular gasoline. Gasoline is a mix of several chemicals as ethanol is only one,.... is more pure, will ignite faster and easier, as will burn cooler giving lower head Temps And this is why it is becoming a norm around the world. Dan is correct about the machines tuning. Cheap fuel has less ethanol and more water more expensive fuels will be less water more other chemicals. All fuels are products of crude oil the more expensive the more refining processes will apply. Ethanol is not an oil base, so its better as it lowers the temps, flashes over faster and is cleaner burning....and more easily renewable. But don't forget gasoline also provides lubrication, and ethanol does not. But in a nutshell, you may not even notice any runability issues.

My cousins race twin turbo banshees on straight ethanol, and refuse to run anything oil based in them. Drag race teams use an ethanol and water base mix as a induction cooler and is sprayedinto intake to keep Temps lower, because we all know engines produce more power when cold.

 

I think this is really related to intake charge density, i.e. cooler air is more dense, and hence a given volume of air (taken into the cylinder during an intake stroke) actually contains more air and fuel molecules (a mini-turbocharger effect) than warmer, less-dense air. For the combustion process itself, the most efficiency (and typically, power) occurs when the fuel is as hot as possible, as more useful energy can be extracted (think of it this way: less energy is "wasted" in warming up the fuel mixture first). You want as much heat to be produced as is possible (again; within limits; holed pistons does no one any good) as the release of energy in the form of heat is what makes "power". Of course, as with everything in life (including engineering and physics), there is a trade-off involved.

You might be surprised at the amount of energy that is required to produce ethanol.....all that effort doesn't come for free (energy-input or financially-wise). One of the main advantages of fossil fuels is that nature (chemistry/physics and time) have done a lot of the heavy lifting (the conversion process) "for free"; all of the energy needed to create those fossil fuels from plant and animal material (also "renewable resources") has a cost to humans of zero.