Issues after sitting for a bit

Hello all,

new to the forum, but I've had this Seca (XJ550) for about 2 years. Bought it from a friend who'd had it for about 8 before that. Bike was operating pretty reliably for most of 2019 and 2020. I took it on a 600 mile trip in late 2019 and all felt pretty good.

Ended up parking it around September of 2020 and didn't ride it again until the Spring. Last time I rode it in earnest was in May, and since then it's been pretty finicky. So, the long and the short of it are : bike starts easy, idles, revs, etc. but will now always die when shifting into gear. I know that this is usually a faulty or disconnected sidestand switch, but the sidestand relay was already removed from this bike.

I tightened the clutch cable a bit, thinking it might have stretched, no dice. My next thought is maybe the clutch switch? This would shutoff the ignition if the switch were stuck open, correct? It feels electrical - I used to be able to start the bike in gear with the clutch pulled in, but now I'm not able to. The red oil light illuminates in gear when I try the starter.

 

The clutch switch makes it so you can't start it in gear without pulling in the clutch. If you disconnect the clutch switch or the switch body is broken which happens a lot it comes apart there's actually a threat on this. The bike will only start in neutral

 

The oil light is supposed to come on when you press the starter button it is a test to tell you the bulb is good. When you do an oil change turn on the key do not press the starter button in the oil light should come on again when there's no oil in the bike this is a test of the oil level switch.

 

When you say you pulled the side stand relay you are talking about the relay under the seat just behind a little tool track correct?
When you put the bike in gear in the and it dies is it lurching forward?
Also do you have the side stand up when this happens or is it down? It shouldn't matter if you're pulled out the side stand relay.
You didn't mention it so I will ask does your neutral light come on when the bike is in neutral?

 

I had a problem similar to this with my 550s and what it was was the connector from the control right side with the kill switch was a little loose and the wires weren't all pushed into once I pushed all the wives and seat them and push the connect together after cleaning it of course the problem went away this connector is located right aside of the ignition coil under the gas tank. I discovered this problem when the bike died wouldn't start and I slapped the gas tank on the right side then it started. So I looked under the gas tank to see what was there

 

Yep, neutral light comes on. Bike starts right up. I've tried it both ways, with the sidestand up or down, no difference. This connector on the harness isn't plugged into anything, I believe this originally goes to the sidestand relay.

Should any of these wires be jumpered together?

 

Harness connector wire colors:
- on all XJ550, all 1982-84 XJ650, XJ700, XJ750 models, all XJ900, and XJ1100 models:
* Red wire with white tracer stripe
* Black wire with white tracer stripe
* Blue wire with yellow tracer stripe
* solid Black wire
The side stand relay does not need any jumpers when you remove it. Those two look like the correct color wires and it is located under your seat between the tool box and fender

 

Thanks for the quick replies. So, normally, I should be able to start the bike in gear with the clutch pulled right? If so, I think that indicates my clutch lever switch may be faulty or disconnected.

 

Look closely at the clutch lever you will see the switch stuck in there if it looks like the body is pulling apart it is probably broken I have been able to push a few back together and glue them but if you feel it is the issue or maybe the issue. Open up the headlight bucket you will find a green connector with three positions but only two wires in it and it runs up to that switch you can either pull the connector apart e then put a jumper wire across the main harness connection this will allow the bike to start in gear without the clutch pulled in so be careful and see if the issue goes away the second thing you can do is just cut the wire from the switch and twist them together again this bypass is a safety feature so you want to repair it. I'm supporting vendor sells them it's also the same switch as the brake level switch just has a different connector on it. To remove the switch from the clutch lever there is a little hole where you can stick a small drill bit in to depress a tab in the switch and then the switch should pull out this will allow you to get it closer inspection. You can also test to see if the switch is working when you disconnect the connector in the headlight bucket with an old meter which is closed when lever is pulled in switches open when lever is out so if you push the little button in on the switch you should get no reading and when you let the button out you should get continuity or an ohm e reading

 

I am talking to my tablet for these posts so please excuse the odd word or two that show up when I get back on my computer I'll try to edit them correctly

 

damn saftey items lol
not 100% sure about the seca, but the safty switches are routed into the diode block in the headlight housing on a ground circuit, and if tripped will only kill the ground signal to the tci. I believe its a black wire with a white stripe on the largest connector on the tci. all the saftey switches are routed into the diode block, and it kills this tci connection, shutting the tci off and killing the engine.

 

Just wondering since I don't know enough about electrical systems. What would happen if the diode block was not there? I know it only lets current pass one way, that's all. Would there be short circuits and blown fuses?

 

You are correct, diodes allow current to flow one way. Good example is there is a diode in the block that allows the oil light to light when the starter button is pressed but prevents the starter from cranking when the oil level switch turns the light on. In short, you can't simply remove it as the safety circuit would not work correctly and you'd lose the oil light test feature. Would suck if you were actually low on oil but the bulb was burned out, without the starter light check you wouldn't know.

Do you have a FSM for the bike? They have a detailed section on how the safety circuits work and testing procedures for each component. It's a well designed system that works reliably when maintained. I've seen many bikes over the years with hacked up safety systems, I assume because people don't understand them or have the patience to work methodically though the issue.

 

It stops current getting to the starter motor when the oil is low. I didn't know that and when l got the bike the oil light switch cable was earthing onto the crankcase. I fixed that and fitted a new neutral switch during my engine rebuild. Thanks for the explanation do you know where l can get the FSM?

Found it cheers.

 

it can be removed, however will require more extensive harness modifications.
So its not just as simple as removeing it and done... a lot more work will follow.

 

Yes I am going to read up on the electrical system in the manual as jayrodoh advised.

 

Mine was converted to a trike, so the side stand switch was not needed, plus I removed all safty features except for the oil level switch., and clutch safty switch. used a different left lever assembly so I could convert the side stand wiring into a parking brake safty switch. left lever has a second pull cable setup running to rear caliper for the added park feature.

 

So update: The clutch safety switch is coming apart so I figured I'd test that theory by unplugging it and jumpering the harness side wires together. No change as far as I can tell.

However, after doing a bit more research, seems like my clutch plates may just be sticking together and shifting is just forcing the engine to stop. I revved it to about 3k and then downshifted and while it killed the engine, it felt like it wanted to stay running. Any advice for unsticking the plates besides removing the cover and rebuilding?

 

Nope, if that is in fact the case, only one way.. pull cover, and if you do pull it just replace them.
Im not saying its not possible, but more likely its not, I've seen bikes that have sat longer still have good plate function.

answer me this: when it dies, does it still attempt to fire,backfire,buck and jerk.
or is it just a flat out shut off with no other indication of dying?

 

Seems to lurch a bit. After thinking it through more, I feel like the clutch is probably the most likely issue as these issues came after just sitting, covered.

 

just a single learch is the result of it getting shifted into gear and power being distributed.
obviously if I was in front of the bike I would know where to send you to fix it, but Im not. I have only a vague description of the issues and my own mental picture, but I believe its in your safty systems (electrical) based on what you have told me. It's ultimately your machine and you do what you feel is the best route.

not 100% sure about the seca 550, but the maxim has a 4 wire safty relay, and it can be unplugged to eliminate these safety circuits temporarly. it has a 12v power, and a ground wire for relay operation, and 2 other connections, the signal in, and the signal out. unplugging it just mutes the system useless. the relays get hot, and 40+ yrs of hot and cold does a number on them. when a relay quits working, it either stays in a not connected state, or a connected state. if your is bad and stuck in the connected state its killing the tci ground when neutral switch position is switched on.

 

Put about 2 oz of seafoam in your motor oil this will clean out the gunk that's in the motor oil and if your clutch is a stuck together because of the gunky oil it may also clean them off I use seafoam once a year just before my last oil change

 

What manual do you need?

 

he needs the XJ550) Seca...year was never mentioned...

 

It was the factory service manual for the XJ 900f. I found it in one of your threads.

 

clutch's have stainless steel plates to seperate the ones with the clutch material speciffically for this reason, there unlikely to ever really seize. only way they would ever seize, is if it was ran low on oil allowing the steel to get extremly hot (excess of 350 degrees). this would allow the clutch material to just slip off and desinigrate, allowing all plates to fuse together.

if that happened, it would be very obvious the last time it was parked. seafoam will slightly clean the gunk, but as the temp rises to operating temp, the seafoam will have likely evaporated the most important part of its chemical makeup. leaving only the petrolium base which is just another lubricator and not a detergent cleaner.

it will be most effective if you put it in and start it up for about 1 to 3 minutes(just enough to cycle it in top end), then shut if off. let it sit for an hour or so, then start it again getting to operating temp, then shut it off and drain when hot.

good call tho @XJ550H on the seafoam. But I have seen verry few bike engines in need of a degunking...

put your bike in 2nd gear and see if you can push start it and hop on and shift...

 

Okay so update - found the starter cutoff relay. I disconnected it, tho after doing so it wouldn't crank in any gear. However, I jumpered the red/white to red/white wires and voila - it cranks! It cranks in gear too great. However, it still dies when downshifting and it won't start in 1st or 2nd. Is it cranking but not sparking perhaps?

In 1st gear, when I sit on the bike, pull in the clutch, and roll it will move but feels like lots of resistance. Tightening the cable didn't seem to change anything. The oil was drained and changed like a month ago, so it's new.

 

stater cutoff relay is not the same as sidestand safety relay.
once you bypassed the starter cutoff relay you disabled the clutch saftey switch and neutral switch function.

so to clear up something
when you shift into gear the bike lurchases forward and stalls with clutch pulled in?

at this point I do think it is a clutch issue not electrical or fuel related

 

Yes, that's correct.

 

if it was mechanical, and impeding the rotation it would have broke something, or hear a noise inside by now...

 

Thanks for all the knowledge and help so far. I'd be happy to take some video or pictures if it would help you guys diagnose what's going on. I am thinking at this point the clutch cover has to come off to get a look at the basket and plates.

 

I've finally gotten around to removing the clutch pack and taking a look (the clutch cover was actually a bit of a headache to get off). All the plates were pretty nicely stuck together - will probably just get new friction plates to remove that variable. Also, is this piece supposed to be wavy?

 

bump to see if I can get confirmation on whether or not the clutch boss spring is supposed to be wavy or flat

 

I think wavy is correct as that is how it gets the "spring" action. Have you looked up it on line for a replacement and wee what the replacement looks like? Partzilla or others.

 

Coming back around to this, I rebuilt the clutch, cleaned up the pads and plates, new gasket, new fluid. Used this thread. Starts right up, but exactly the same issue. It just seems always partially engaged no matter what I do. In neutral, the wheel very slightly spins, though I can stop it with my foot. Shifting to first or second always kills the motor. In first with the clutch pulled, I can roll the bike around but it's hard.

Weirdly, the cable adjustment doesn't seem to make much difference. Pretty stumped, as I've had bikes that would get the clutch stuck, but I could rev them up and shift and it would always come unstuck. This one, not so much.

I'll post a video this weekend.

Could this indicate some other transmission problem?

 

when your bike is on center stand the rear wheel will spin in neutral it is a normal thing.

it could be your sidestand safety switch is acting up and shutting down bike

 

I'm not the first owner of this, and the previous owner did mess around with jumpering the switches. The starter will turn over when it's in first, however who knows if it is sparking. Was thinking of testing one of the plug caps to see if it's sparking while it turns over in first.

 

Is that the starter turning over in gear when the clutch switch is pulled in AND the side stand is up?

Removing the side stand relay (ignition cutoff) is the easiest action for troubleshooting the safety circuit - or at the TCI follow the B/W wire and disconnect the bullet connector

https://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/the-ultimate-relay-switch-sensor-and-diodes-guide.27543/

"XJ550 models:

Flasher: on a tabbed bracket at the rear of the ignition coils rear mounting bracket.
Flasher canceller: behind ignition coils.
Starter motor solenoid/relay: behind the right side cover, behind the access panel, below the regulator.
Starter/Ignition cut-off relay (no color): front of coil rear mounting bracket.
Sidestand (kickstand) relay (blue): left side, behind rear frame cross tube.
Headlight relay (yellow): behind ignition coils, behind flasher canceller.
Diode block: inside the headlight housing.
Neutral switch: located inside the engine shifter case side cover."

 

So here's what I'm working with:

The start circuit cutoff relay (I believe that's the one under the tank) was disconnected and jumpered (i think it was red/white to red/white jumpered). I plugged it back in.

The sidestand relay looks like it's missing entirely. Got an empty connector there.

I replaced the clutch safety switch because I thought it might be the issue. No luck.

It sounds like in order to remove all of the safety cutoffs from the equation, I should unplug that bullet connector to the TCI. Where exactly is that located?

 

I think you are referring to the 2nd picture you posted, and that appears to be the headlight relay connector. The yellow tape indicates headlight and the wire colors match the headlight relay - perhaps the sidestand relay is still installed

The sidestand relay connector should be R/W, L/Y, B, and B/W, and if not removed would have blue tape marking the harness as well as a blue dot on the relay

I don't own a 550 so I can't give you a picture or exact location but the B/W wire should be easy to find starting at the TCI and simply following it back to the bullet connector

 

if you look at the connectors that go into the TCI you will see a black/white wire coming from the connector a few inches away from the connectr you will see a rubber cylinder that is the bullet connector.
If you want to bypass the sidestand saftey switch all you have to do is remove the relay under the seat.

 

So upon disconnecting the bullet connector to the TCI, voila the bike is fine. So yes it was an electrical issue. I rebuilt and readjusted the clutch, but hey no worries.

However, in this state the brake bulb doesn't work (flashes for a second then goes off) so I still need to chase down this issue. Since you all say the open connector I have is for the headlight relay, would having this missing be an issue? I believe when I got the bike this connector was jumpered.

Where exactly is the sidestand relay located? Under the seat?

 

under seat at the cross bar above the airbox it is the only relay there.
undoing the black white wire is a quick test for sidestand switch or relay problem.

brake light has 2 switches they do not run off of the headlight relay.
front switch could be bad or foot lever switch could be bad or needing adjustment as the spring will strech.

i assume you do not meen the tail light. the bulb could aslo be bad or socket and related connectors loose or dirty