AGM vs Lithium

I bought a power sport AGM battery 3 years ago and a Lithium power sport battery 5 years ago
2 bikes obviously.
I switch between them without any rhyme or reason.

The AGM bike started... Starting poorly, as in battery not handling the cranking and it was also getting flakey acceleration wise from idle (ie flatspot)

Put a new lithium into that also and everything is just great again, flatspot seems to be gone.

So... Low voltage or current is bad for TCI performance at low revs and obviously for starting so I figured that's the reason, painful as it seems.

So the question is. Who else is using a lithium battery and are you finding what I'm finding or has it not been so good for you?

 

I've been curious about switching to Lithium, but haven't done any research. I assume they have some charging electronics built directly into the battery so no new wiring or modules are required to run them?

Your AGM failure was maybe just a bad battery. The symptoms sound similar to what I experience in my Ford pickup. AGM battery that started cranking slowly, and also at idle some warning lights would occasionally flash like it was going low voltage. It was still under warranty, so took it to the dealer and they said the battery had failed and also "we've never seen an AGM battery fail like this"...but maybe that's what the dealer always says.

 

Yes, just plug and play. Feels like your installing an empty plastic box also, weight wise.

 

This is something I've wondered about though.
Lion battery with electronics to charge via a normal lead/acid charging system... Dead easy right.
So would it make sense that a lead/acid trickle charger would be the way to go?

The reason I wonder is because I bought a trickle charger that does Lion as well as lead/acid and I find the press the starter button experience is a bit... Kinda poor after using it. Whereas just normal riding around its damn impressive.

I read that this trickle charger does lots of magical sinewavey stuff etc etc. but do you think I should treat the lion just like a lead/acid and stop using the lion mode on the trickle charge?

https://www.victronenergy.com/chargers/blue-smart-ip65-charger#downloads-datasheets

 

My understanding is if you change to a lithium you should also change the rectifier. Due to overcharging of lithium batteries with a standard a calibrated rectifier. Yes, it will work without but can damage the lithium battery. I personally use gel cells. Better than a standard AGM battery but no need to update your rectifier.

 

New AGM is great.
Loved it. Had it. Sent it to recycling.
New any battery is great for that matter.

But Ummm.
Okay sorry.
But the rectifier, bridge rectifier, is 4 diodes that only allow voltage in one direction.
From AC you get DC.
The regulator does the work of protecting the complete system.
At any rate that seems to work well on the bike in normal use.

Actually the more I think about this the more magical it seems.

Or perhaps the guys who sold me the battery and the guys who made the charger aren't in sync.

So... Trickle charging with a fancy lion trickle charger might not be ideal... But possibly for non lion batteries that are made to charge from legacy lead/acid charging systems.

All sounds like rubbish to me... We have potential and we have current... Wtf?

Still I am no chemist.

At either rate we all know that to charge you need to go above to current voltage, potential, of the battery.
I don't ... I don't get the point... Aah bugger. I think I'll just do normal trickle and see what happens.

 

What is a gell cell?

 

It uses gel inside instead of liquid.
It's still AGM based just an upgraded design

I can promise you lithium ion batteries require different charging rates of current. Too much too fast and you get "boom".... That's why most chargers today state not for lithium use... Unless designated as such

They actually sell lithium rectifiers for our bikes.... A quick search on eBay will lead you to th promised land

 

That's a question I always had about putting a lithium battery in a bike that was intended for a lead acid battery. Obviously, the bike's charging circuit knows nothing about the requirements for lithium batteries. I assume the battery itself has to have some "smarts" to be able to take the "dumb" current from the bike and convert it into something that safe for lithium with cell balancing and all that? Otherwise, how can it be sold as a drop-in replacement?

 

I’ve gotten two lithium batteries…..was not happy with either one….. not the replacements, either —- that was 10 yrs ago. Not gonna get another.

 

My experience with gell batteries pushed me away from them. Current favorite is still wet lead acid. My thoughts on Li - if you install one it should have the charging circuit built in, otherwise it won't last. Be interesting to know if they come with this circuit?

 

The info says yes, designed to go straight in a s a replacement.
I didn't notice the part about 'except for chargers with Automatic Rejuvenation or Desulphation Mode' mind you.
Kinda answers my question about the fancy charger doing more harm than good maybe.

https://batteryspecialists.com.au/p...e-lithium-lh5l-bs?_pos=1&_sid=c7c2c93e4&_ss=r

 

May I ask what issues you had? I've had really good results. Obviously results vary so I believe you. I was an Auto tech for 25 years. Seen alot in that time. I retired from that line of work because of a neck and back injury (separate issues).

 

The only issue I have is that if I put the trickle charger on for a week, using the lion mode, the next time I go to start the bike it's like the battery is nearly flat. If I ride the bike and get it fully charged and don't ride it for a week and don't put the trickle charger on, it starts like I'm using a truck battery (like normal for the lion).
Bit annoying.

 

Just spoke to the battery mob.
The lithium doesn't need trickle charging and shouldn't be charged externally unless you have passive drain. Otherwise it will retain the charge for 12months or more unlike other chemistry batteries.
So yeah, he was a bit dubious about the LIon mode on the charger also... well that answers that, sort of.