XJ650 Starting issues

That might be the way I go except with a hair dryer

 

Not an urgent thing, mostly thinking about the front fork suspension.

Len doesn't have (at the time I had asked anyways) some good high performance springs for the forks, and since the air only should have somewhere between 12-15 psi (pressure cooker amount of PSI) or you'll blow out the oil seals (iirc the max is 17), I don't think having air or not in the front forks really makes any appreciable difference.

I'll be replacing the leaking fork with a brand spanking new inner fork tube from Len this weekend, and if I have to, the oil seal (which looks visually perfect, though I certainly can't look underneath it, it is installed correctly, and I see no scratches on it whatsoever, inside the outer fork tube. It looks exactly as it did as I got it from Len)

I know I installed the spacers, and such correctly and in the correct direction, as per the manual. I am using Lucas 10W synthetic fork oil (the only fork oil sold in this area) as per manual

However regardless of the slow leak on the fork, it wouldn't make sense how it feels like the front shocks are "soft" and relatively easy to "bottom out" while sitting on the bike. The bike seems like it sits "low" to begin with, in that if I lift the bike's triple tree, then it seems as if there is several inches that come back up of give. I guess I would just expect the front end to be stiffer when parked. Is this normal or does it mean the springs should be replaced with something else, and if so, what should I get to upgrade this behavior?

edit: I didn't measure them, but I can check the left fork when I disassemble it this weekend

 

Upon further research, it looks like my two options are to get some regular aftermarket springs from Len, rather than the "high performance ones" or look into upgrading to "Race Tech" springs and Emulators.

 

All my forks had a spacer about 50mm on top of the springs. Basically xj650 turbo forks.
I swapped in progressive springs and the spacer went up to about 90mm to keep the front end from sagging.
Without air added it made a huge difference, hardness wise. Much nicer feel with the air.
In saying that. I have different forks altogether so, pinch of salt I guess.

 

Oh, I'm not saying I wouldn't put air in the forks, I just don't think a few PSI difference is going to be a big difference

 

Also:

Has anyone replaced their right "control switch" with aftermarket ones with a more simplified control switch? Of course you can go with like motogadget stuff but I love the simplicity of the XJ750 where it has a "ignition cut-out ON-OFF toggle switch" rather than the off-on-off, which I always incredibly disliked that. Eventually that's one of the things I'll get rid of once everything else is handled.

I'll probably keep the left "control switch" because it's fine and I don't dislike anything about it (besides feeling like my thumb is a bit too short to reach the blinker nub without partially removing most of my hand from the grip)

 

Looks like a handy upgrade would be a HCP26152, though I wish it was USB-C and 3A instead of two 2.1A (most connections like this on USB-A tend to not be able to output 2.1A to both USB ports at the same time, resulting in half the amps to both if it's connected to both ports). A simple pole switch to ensure it's not connected when the bike isn't on would probably work well, though I have no idea how to insulate at the moment that from water.

https://www.amazon.com/Nilight-Motorcycle-Voltmeter-Independent-Waterproof/dp/B0CJ2CPN1K

This might be something I go with

 

I put one of those on every bike I have, and wire it up live (it has an SAE connector and a glass fuse + spare. Work great, but remember to shut it off when you're at the end of your ride.

 

I upgraded to a blade fusebox last fall. I suppose I could wire it to an aux fuse since there's space in the box for one, but the actual wiring harness on the XJ650J doesn't have anything setup for aux by default. Figured I'd just do a direct wire to the battery with an on-off switch.

 

Well, few problems.

I went to drain the oil, and the drain plug was so tight I had to use my impact to remove the bolt.

Drained the oil, no metal fragments, oil looked okay, if not a little dark.

Tried the new chacal plug, it would not fit. Instead of forcing it, I put the old plug in, and used the crush washer with the new plug on the old plug and torqued it to 25ft lbs. (Instead of 31)

I went to assemble the new filter and housing, and that was also kinda stuck, but I got it out.

It was missing a washer (though nothing was leaking)

I struggled to get the new filter bolt in, so I took the bolt and only used it by itself to make sure the angle was right, and was able to hand tighten it pretty far, and took it out and reassembled it.

There is really not a whole lot of clearance, for the spin on kit, so unless I can somehow figure a way to spread these headers farther apart, which I have no idea how to do, I don't think that's possible.

I went to go install the bolt with the filter assembly, and I was able to hand screw it in a decent way and then I continued tightening it. I made sure to use a torque wrench set to 10 ft lb, instead of 11, and I notice it wasn't going down all the way but I was hitting 10 ft lb. I figured this didn't seem right, and I backed it out and looked at the threads, from the bottom they look okay, and I looked at the top, and it's like the middle section here is crumbling, I could use my finger and metal pieces looked like they were showing up.

See attachment

I'm not really sure what to do at this point. Help!

 

Looks like it was cross threaded at some point.
The real fix is to get a tap that size and carefully fix it.
The tap would cost an arm and a leg more than likely and hard to justify for a single use.
or
Carefully use a hardened bolt that size and lubricant and realign the existing threads, kinda like a tap without the cutting.
See what everyone else suggests though!

 

Looking over the previous technician logs, he said quote:
"Repaired stripped oil filter housing"

So I'm not sure what specifically he did. Maybe I made it worse by using the new oil filter bolt that I got from chacal? The head on the old bolt was 11mm, and the one from chacal was 17mm. The thread pitch looks okay, and very similar, so I'm not sure what went wrong.

There is so little clearance behind these headers, that I can't take out the oil filter cover with the oil filter bolt installed. I have to rotate the filter cover sideways, remove the bolt, and then I can remove the filter.

Why would someone design headers like this if it's just going to be a pain in the ass to do the oil filter replacements in the future?

In any case I'm not sure what went wrong, I initially was struggling to get the assembly in the hole, so I took out everything, and dry fit the new bolt by hand, and hand tightened it in, idk maybe halfway, so I took it out, reassembled the oil filter, again went to put it back hand tightening it a little bit until it looked like it went in fine, and then it just seemed wrong, so I stopped and backed out. I can take another look tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure the threads on the bottom seem fine, it's just from the angle I showed in the image

 

Ahh, sounds like the repair was pretty much like the 2nd method I mentioned.
You probably didn't notice that it was tight most of the way when loosening it off, more likely.
Tight is tight I guess when it comes to this sort of thing but it kills the torque wrench concept and sends you to the tighten till it doesn't leak area instead.
The bigger head is a good thing as the original size is stupidly small for this bolt and always gets rounded off at some point.

You should be able to lay both bolt threads into each other neatly to check the thread pitch. Check to see if the original has been altered/damaged.

 

I'll check the thread pitch in the morning, I do remember when I was unscrewing it, it was decently tight, like it was definitely not something I could unscrew by hand, when initially doing this. The first unscrew to get it to unstick, took a decent amount of effort, and then I needed to wrench it the rest of the way off.

 

If you look at this attachment, this shows the bottom of the threads, see they look fine!

 

Not really. Look closer.
Some are flat, some are taller.
Cross threaded to start with at any rate.
The bolt tries to cut a new thread by flattening the existing threads and extending a few others that kinda match because the insertion is angle is wrong.
Unless the tech put an imperial thread onto the bolt, forcefully, or a different pitch using a die then you have the same thread overlayed on an angle mutilating the original thread, basically.
Pain in the neck but fixable, not perfectly, but fixable.

 

Unfortunately, that looks like it's going to take a heli-coil or similar to remedy.....I'm not sure there's going to be enough thread "meat" left even if a tap is run thru it (a real tap or just even just a hardened bolt as a "quasi-tap"). There's plenty of surrounding metal to make using a heli-coil or time-sert (etc) possible, but either one is going to be a semi-pain to do as you'll have metal shavings to contend with and get rid of.....dropping the oil pan may be necessary.

I'm wondering what happened with the oil pan drain plug........for most Yamaha's --- over a huge number of years --- (and actually most all Japanese bikes of that era and before/beyond) the pan plug is a universal size (bolt heads and bolt depths can differ, but bolt size and thread pitch are pretty much one common size). Was the bolt that you got from us too small, too large, or ????

 

One of the things that I noticed when I was unscrewing the original, it was, it felt entirely too tight in there, the entire step of the way. When I uncracked the bolt, for either of them, subsequent untightening required the use of a wrench, I could not unscrew it by hand. My only sort of consolation to myself is that maybe I wasn't the one that cross-threaded it. I was so sure that I didn't with the new bolt, I dry fit it to make sure that the angle was right and it looked good.

Yeah I can't really do any of that myself. I don't have the means to pull the engine, drop the pan, remove the exhaust, etc.

I guess she's just sitting there until I can get her to a tech to do that kinda stuff for me

 

Bugger.
The headers and exhaust system aren't hard to remove, just annoying and first time around a bit scarey wondering if the studs are okay.
I pull them off when I do a filter, it's absolutely aggravating doing it otherwise.
Helicoiling is best done by someone who's done it before though. Good skill to have but you have to be dead on.
You can jam the old stuff back on, in the meantime, to get it running though surely. Not ideal but sometimes you need to keep the momentum going.

 

Gentlemen, listen to me please...... Yammy has had a ridiculous torque for oil pan drain plugs forever. Hell no to 31. IF anything that would be on first installation for dry threads, and even that it too high..........

So here's the deal, the usual crush washer starts to crush at about 17 ft. lbs. and once it starts crushing, a little bit more (20) is all you need to seal it. Why keep going and crush it into a flat steel washer? I strongly suggest you convert to aluminum washers used by Honda and a couple others... same deal, get the feel for it, but 20-22 ft. lbs. max. Don't be stripping those oil pans!!! I hear too much of this with Yamahas...... nobody else has that kind of torque for a drain pan bolt.

You want a wee chuckle, same drain plug and crush washer used on the rear drive of an FJR1300...... torque spec there is 17..... same f-ing setup.

 

Well, I covered the oil filter hole with a sandwich bag and rubber bands to keep stuff from going into it. I'm not going to try and put stuff back in.

The threads were coming out with just my finger on the top of the threads. The bottom threads seemed fine, even in that recent image, the bottom threads look fine to me. I touched the threads on the bottom with my finger several times, nothing changed at all, so I figured they were fine. That looks normal, as best as I know.

I have no idea if the top threads were already damaged at this point, cause I was doing this laying on the pavement. I suppose maybe I should have reused the old plug, but I guess based on this situation, doing this oil change would have shown that this needed to happen anyways. Maybe the previous tech said that he fixed the threads, and then it caused further damage when he torqued it down?

Like I said, the drain plug hole I initially used a 1/2" wrench, extension (since the headers are in the way), and socket, and it would not unscrew. I upgraded to a breaker bar, and tried again, still wasn't coming undone. I took out the impact drill to unscrew it, and it took several seconds of ugga dugga before it finally came loose.

I just wanted to ride my bike and this damn thing has been fighting me every step of the way.

Just getting it started was frustrating. I rode it back to my apartment complex about a week ago and it wouldn't want to start yesterday. With the inline filter, I set the petcock to RES, no gas movement, but I see gas in the bottom of the filter/hose section. ON? Same behavior. Set it to prime for a second? Fuel flow! I quickly set it back to ON. Gas flow stops. Bike doesn't start, starter motor seems fine, not sure what's up. Fresh gas in the tank, filled it up by hand. New spark/caps/ignition coils from Len. Battery is known good.

Friend suggests looking at the filter while I'm starting it to see if fuel flows when I try to start it. I awkwardly lean over the bike, stretching to see if it starts, I hold in the clutch, press ignition with full enrichment lever, pulling throttle a bit, starts right up. I don't quite understand this behavior.

That's why I never want to go full torque, for this reason. Both for age of the bike, and potential damage to the threads. I went to 25 instead and that felt plenty sufficient.

 

The petcock vaccum thing is cool. Although it is a whole other mechanism to worry about.
If the float valves are doing there job it isn't needed when the bike isn't running.
If the float valves are leaking you'll end up with an engine oil/fuel mix in the transmission and the petcock is left on prime. (Actually I think reserve might bypass it also but I'm not sure)
In saying all of that.

On is kinda off for letting the bike sit.

When your starting prime is fine.
Stick it on prime and wait minute, start the bike and when it's running stick it back to on.
If you have to do this every time then you have leakage from the bowls somewhere ... Or the fuel has evaporated if you are in a hot climate after a few days.

If the bike dies after turning to on, the petcock probably needs a going over as well.

Pretty sure you will be intimately aware of every single tiny thing on your bike by the end of your adventure. And it'll run like a beast!

 

I'm so worried that in order to do this they'll have to pull the engine and the labor in the work is going to be over $1,000 USD or something stupid. The local place here charges about $100 an hour. The cheapest place I know of that would be willing to work on this is half an hour away and still costs 80 bucks an hour.

 

That's not good.
Best mechanic, and cheapest, is always going to be you.
If you screw it up then you'll just have to fix it.
Much simpler if you put all the pressure on yourself to work it out. Not faster but simpler and a hell of a learning curve.

The first few helicoils I did were on a cb900 boldor kneeling in sand at the back of a rental house after changing a cam chain and over tightening the head bolts that they pulled out of the case. I really had to get to work in the morning though. Not the best job I'm sure but it ran for another year at least.
Perspective. Don't think you can't do everything yourself.
Given time and space and a few tools it's amazing what's achievable.

PS: I sold it so who knows how long it lasted. Damn PO.

 

If you want to ride, get a replacement oem type filter and reassemble everything but only torque till not leaking. I don't think partial threads would prevent me from riding until a better fix comes along. You could run a hardened bolt into the hole like a form tap, as mentioned, first. Deal with the fix and spin on adapter later.