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Failed Emissions, Now What?

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by ArizonaSteve, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    My 1100 failed the yearly emissions test, twice this time, so I can't get the license renewed this year. They require it pass HC and CO at idle and the HC (unburned hydrocarbons) was slightly too high. It has to pass with the same test results as a new bike, 5.50% CO and 1800 PPM HC but since it's not getting any younger so that gets harder to do every year and mine read 2249 PPM, just a bit over. It's always hard to pass at idle since the idle mixture screws have to be adjusted just right so it's as lean as possible without missing, which is just a matter of 1/4 turn either way. If it's slightly too rich the CO will be too high but if it's slightly too lean and misses the HC will be way too high but I have always been able to get it set correct with a Color Tune and double check with an exhaust gas analyzer. There's not even a test station in my county so even though I setup the mixture just right at home the carbs don't have temperature compensation so it's usually a bit off after I drive all the way over to the test station and I might still fail the first time but after I see the test results and tweak it a bit I can usually go back the next day and pass. This time when the HC was too high I figured it must be missing slightly so I changed the plugs and reset the idle mixture screws using the Color Tune. There was no evidence of missing and it was running fine but when I went back for a second test it still failed the same as before!
    My Exhaust Gas analyzer doesn't measure HC, only CO, so I'm not sure what to do at this point. The engine has 70K miles and runs fine but doesn't idle very smoothly at slow speeds but it doesn't seem to be missing either. I'm pretty sure the cam chain needs to be replaced and the valves adjusted. Also it burns a little oil, not enough to smoke or foul the plugs but the level does fall after high speed driving so it may need rings. I wonder if burning oil would make the HC level read too high? It's always burned some oil but not at idle. Interesting the precondition run they made me do at 2500 RPMs produced an HC reading of only 500 PPM so the problem seems to be occurring only at idle. Does anyone have any experience with fixing high HC levels who could offer some advice?
    If I tell them it normally idles at 2500 I don't think they would buy it.
     
  2. BlackRig

    BlackRig Member

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    Historical plates? Ohio only requires 25 years old for historical vehicles. They don't need E-Checks.
     
  3. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    No, 28 years old isn't nearly old enough for historical plates. I met a guy buying oil for his 1918 Harley at Walmart once and it don't have to be inspected every year but it smoked like crazy! He said he never has to drain the oil, just keeps pouring more in! LOL
     
  4. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what to tell you to do. You somehow have to get the bike running almost too lean to Idle to get by the Carbon Emissions.

    Maybe you should bring along a Tweaker Screwdriver and adjust it while they are running the test; telling them that you don't have a gas analyzer and you need it set-up on their machine.

    If they'd go for that ... I don't know.

    In Massachusetts we don't have Emissions testing for motorcycles. Just a strict Safety check. You can have an Engine so poorly tuned that it's smoking badly and still pass the Saafety related challenges.

    Lights, tires, brakes, horn, headset bearings, lighted number plate and fork seals ... is what they look for.

    I go in and wipe my front forks with a Kleenex so as not to draw too much attention to them and let them look-over the Bike. They don't start it; nor do they have to hear it run.

    If your rings are badly worn the Oill sheen is leaving Oil behind that is being used for Fuel. That would topple the limit and have you running high emissions.

    You might try putting-in a heavy oil that would be resistant to getting by worn rings; but you'd still have to Lean-out the Pilot Jets some until the readings ... (which you can't monitor without a machine) ... come-down sufficiently to get you to pass the test.

    Rock -- You -- Hard Place!
     
  5. baz666

    baz666 Member

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    Tough one Steve. I don't know about Arizona but here in Ontario, bikes don't need to pass emissions. Like Rick mentioned about Mass, up here they just have to pass a cursory safety inspection when bought and that's it. As long as the same person owns it, the bike will never need to safetied again.
    But there might be a solution for one, albeit an unsavory one. Here in Ontario cars have to pass an emission test every 2 years. I've heard that if you ask around certain seedy bars/garages/etc, there are guys who will pass pretty much any car for a cash payment.
    I don't know if that sort of thing goes on down in Arizona but I think it's really unfair of these bureaucratic boneheads to expect an almost 30 year old bike to produce the same level of emissions as a new motorcycle. Even when brand new, your XJ may not have passed the current emissions standards for new bikes. Maybe take it up with your local state legislator but I guess you don't have 40 or 50 years to wait for something to get done so maybe start asking around ;-)
    thx,
    baz
     
  6. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    is synthetic oil really synthetic, no hydrocarbons ?
    how about some of that E85 corn gas ?
     
  7. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    Synthetic is still hydrocarbons. In fact it isn't actually synthetic in most cases. It really just means the hydrocarbon molecules are uniform in length instead of being the assortment that comes out of the ground.
     
  8. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Cheat!

    Leave the cover off the airbox and go take the test without an air filter.
    That should make you sufficiently lean enough to get past the machine!

    Run-up the Idle Rod enough to keep it running and hope for the best.

    Then, there's the well-placed Bribe approach like Baz says.
    See if the guy knows the color of Money?
     
  9. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    It's not a matter of being more lean, if it were any leaner it wouldn't run.
    I did find the vacuum advance was sticking and not going all the way.
    Does anyone know what the vacuum advance should be for an 1100 LG? I noticed that the speed it passed at of 2500 RPMs is where the ignition advance cuts in so I checked it more closely and found the vacuum was sticking so it wasn't advancing far enough at idle.
    The manual goes to great lengths to specify 36 deg. for the centrifugal advance at 5200 RPM and even has a drawing of what it looks like but they never mention the vacuum advance at idle, which seems odd. I get 36 deg. when I rev up the engine like it specifies but the vacuum was sticking at about 16 deg. at idle. When I got it freed up it goes to about 23 deg now. I wonder if that's right, maybe that would fix it? Besides they have a sign saying bribes are not allowed.
     
  10. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    Are we talking about an XS1100LG?

    The service data on the Yamaha web site shows 5 deg advance at 1100rpm idle.
     
  11. iwingameover

    iwingameover Active Member

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    Move out (or register it out) of Maricopa county. Are they still the only one's who check emissions? Them and Tucson it was when I was out there. Or put some octane boost in it. I know people who did that for older cars. A bottle of 104+ a 15 minute drive and to the station. Passed every time. Don't know how it'd do on a bike.
     
  12. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    I have heard of a few guys who had trouble getting something or other to march through an emissions test filling-up and running the mill on AvGas for the test.

    I imagine it must take some clever appropriating to come-up with a 5-Gallon Jug of real Aviation Fuel.

    But, what have you got to lose. See if you can find a guy with his own airplane and have him get use some Highest-Octane Fuel fit for the friendly skies and fill-up the 1100 and go pass the test!

    You could always register it in Massachusetts and ride around Arizona with a Mass or New Hampshire Plate on it.
    Bikers from Mass routinely Register their Bikes up over the Border in New Hampshire.
    No Emission testing.
    No Excise Tax on the Bike.
    Good excuse in case you get pinched for riding without a Helmet.
     
  13. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    I saw that in the manual but they call it Retarded! I have no idea what that means.
     
  14. leaningleft

    leaningleft Member

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    Here in ontario when trying to pass your cars emissions we take it in very hot add some ethenal to help it burn off any garbage hanging around.Could add some stp to thicken the oil and slow any blowby .Just a little ethenal to much will burn your valves.you'll know if it's to much if you it starts preingniting.Thats worked for me in my trucks but never had to pass emissions on a bike
     
  15. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    Retarded would be After TDC. Nothing on the service data sheet that says anything about it being retarded. Service data says Advanced:36.5 @ 3900rpm.

    Retarded doesn't seem right. I don't think I've ever seen any engine with retarded timing.
     
  16. TECHLINETOM

    TECHLINETOM Member

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    You can try hooking the vacuum advance up to manifold vacuum.
    Usually that results in high HC but because you are burning oil thid will allow you to run leaner@ idle.
    Also 2 to 3 oz of acetone per gallon should reduce your HC a TON.
     
  17. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    After looking at the manual some more I figured out when they say Retarded at 5 deg. they mean there just isn't any advance, the vacuum advance is disconnected. That's correct, it is at 5 deg. with no advance and goes to 36 deg. when vacuum advance is connected and the engine revved up. It doesn't say anywhere in the manual about what the vacuum advance should be or when it's supposed to kick in though. I'm going to change the oil to a thicker grade for summer and go back and try again but I'll have to wait until next month because it costs $20 to go again.
     

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