Wierd Horn Question

OK here is a strange one. I was cleaning everything up on my bike gettin it ready to go. Carbs need cleaning so it won't turn over yet but when on the brake light worked and the turn signals worked. Until tonight the horn did too. I pushed it once got a half honk then nothing. Now I must say yes I still have the old fuse block in. Got a new blade style but haven't installed it yet. Question is, I thought the horn was tied to the same fuse as the turn signals; atleast from what I can make out from the wiring diagram in my Haynes manual. If the signals work then so should the horn. I did put a multimeter on the horn contacts while the wife pushed the horn button and got no current. Am I missing something??

 

Check the pushbutton on the control switch, they tend to get really dirty (electrically-speaking, that is) and can cause the problem you are describing.

Also, be aware that a horn draws ALOT of amps, much more than turn signals, and if your battery is weak, well...............

If you want to "isolate" where the problem is, run a jumper wire directly from a known good battery directly to the horn contact and see if it works, and if so, work backwards from there (meaning: horn wire terminals, horn lead wires, CONTROL SWITCH, fuse, etc.)

 

I didnt even think about the button. I actually replace the starter one a while go; the guy I bought it from had a paperclip stuck in there.

Battery shouldn't be an issue, its fairly new and I have a trickle charger I plug in every few weeks.

The jumper idea is good too; I'll give that a try!

 

Well I tried to look into the button to see if that caused the horn problem but its rusted to the point of no return. I sprayed it with PB (got it everywhere and had to clean it up) and while it soaked I tried a few things. I did a continuity test on the horn terminals and it showed fine. I then hooked the horn directly to a side battery and it worked; barely but it worked. Sounded very weak. Just to test out the wiring I had the brilliant idea of doing a continuity test on the wires. Had the wife turn on the bike and push the button while I had the tester on the tabs. BAD idea; blew up my continuity tester. Glad I bought the $2 one and not the $20 one. I'm thinking that means somethin in the button is messed up. It did work just fine then it just up and stopped yesterday. I did replace all the fuses with a new block just to make sure it wasn't a short. Sound like a button to anyone else? BTW battery is strong, tests out at a full 12.1 V.

 

Yup, button is likely. However, if the button is bad there could be a lot of other little things like the connectors and even the relay or the horn itself. Electrical is a pain to fix but worth the effort. Be sure to use dielectric grease on all the connections after cleaning them up.

 

Any idea where I would find the horn relay?

 

Looking at the wiring diagram for an '82 XJ650, I'm not seeing a relay listed.

 

There isn't. If the switch is corroded together, its time to harvest a new switch out of another control cluster or simply replace the cluster altogether. I'd look into the cluster replacement myself. Figure about $40 or so used. Good luck.

 

I don't think there is a "horn relay" used on these bikes..........?

 

I think maybe he was thinking of the flasher relay, looks like the horn ties in there. I don't think its the relay since the flashers still work fine.

I would like to get a whole new cluster but as my luck goes I haven't seen any on ebay lately. I'm tryin to just get that workin for now to pass inspection. Of course it would help if I could get the friggin rusted screws out. Neither PB or Liquid Wrench has worked yet.

 

By "cluster", do you mean the left-side control switch assembly....the black housing bolted to the handlebars that the headlight switch, the horn switch, the turn signals, and the choke lever adjuster are contained within?

If so, I have brand new ones available, and also used ones, but the used ones ALL need internal cleaning and de-corroding, which is technically easy but VERY tedious and time-consuming work to do............

Also, the horn pushbutton isn't really connected to a "switch", in the typical sense of the word, it's just a temporary contact "complete a circuit" kind of "switch". The contact points used to "complete" the circuit can get pretty nasty corroded though.

I can supply you with a complete used switch assembly for about $29.00, but again, it's up to you to clean it internally. If you want me to clean it, add another $50 labor time (and that's cheap...it takes well over an hour, closer to two, to do it!) , and by then, you're so close to the price of a new one I'd recommend you buy that, instead:

**********************************
HCP458 OEM left-hand CONTROL SWITCH, complete unit with the turn signal switch, the headlight hi-lo beam switch, and the horn pushbutton switch incorporated. DOES include the choke lever, but no cable. Original low-gloss black finish. Wiring harnesses included, but please read the note below! Fits all XJ550 Maxim and Seca models, and XJ650 Maxim, Midnight Maxim, and XJ650 Seca models.
$ 87.00

NOTE: this unit is the same as original, but it does NOT come with the molded plastic harness terminal connectors. It has the full compliment of 7 correctly color-coded wires, but each wire is terminated with a male bullet connector. It comes with matching female bullet connectors and plastic connector insulating sheaths, and it is intended that you cut your original main wire harness connector off, and then install the provided crimp-on terminals onto the main harness wires. We do NOT have replacement connectors or terminal pins of the type used in these two control switch harnesses

So, you have one of two options:

a) cut up your main wire harness, and use the supplied female bullets with this switch to terminate the wires on your main harness, or....

b1) cut off the wire leads to your original plastic terminal connectors, and cut off the already-attached male bullet connectors on the new switch harnesses, and then strip/solder/shrink wrap each lead wire from this replacement switch harnesses onto the proper original terminal connectors that you are salvaging from your original switch.

b2) Alternatively, you could cut off your original switch harnesses terminal connectors, and then add the female bullets to the lead wires from those connectors, and plug the male bullets into those newly added female bullets.

c) a final solution would be to dis-assemble your original switch, and salvage the entire harness from it, and swap it into the new switch housing. Unfortunately, this is a bit self-defeating, as most original harnesses have corroded or broken internal connections.

My recommendation is that you do NOT cut up your original main wiring harness! I would rather modify the harness lead wires on this new switch, rather than cut up a main harness. Thus I would opt for method "b" outlined above, and I would prefer to use method "b1" as the optimal choice.

 

chacal thanks for the offer! Yeah that is what I was looking at. Let me have another crack at those screws tomorrow and if I can't get them then I'll look ya up for them. The cluster I have is good just faded so I thought about doing it down the road. If not for this stupid button........

 

I have a horn relay, attached to the right down tube. Found it while fixing them.

 

Hmmmm......none of the wiring diagrams or factory service manuals describe a horn relay. What color wires run to this device?

 

I looked at the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual and the only relay I see is that it ties into the Flasher Relay.

 

Correct. But that's the flasher relay, not a horn relay. I believe that is just a power source connection, and the horns do not actually use that as a "relay" in the electrical sense of the word.....but I may be wrong.

 

I just got done installing new horns on my bike and ended up having to use a relay to power them. With no relay on the bike stock, the horn curcuit is too weak to power anything but the stock horns, which are way too wimpy sounding.
I just wires in a realy to a hot wire directly from the battery and used pair of the horn wires (there are two set) to make them work. HOLY CRAP BATMAN, they are loud as hell!! I hit the switch in the shop and they made my ears ring! Best idea I had yet. They are by far louder than any set of horns I have on any vehicle I own. That will scare the crap out of anyone I can sneek up on! :lol:
I have mounted them just above the headers on the front of the frame. People aren't going to believe what that sound is coming out of when I use them. PD

 

Must have been put in there by the PO when he installed the fairing 26 years ago. Wonder if those Vetter horns pull that much power?

 

If they were not the stock horns, the previous owner more than likely used a relay. The stock wiring system/switch won't be enough to power anything but the stock horns (unless you only use one horn, then it will) When I hooked up my new horns, and pressed the horn button, all I got was a little "bimp" sound out of the horns. Then after I installed the relay setup, the horns blew me right out of the shop.