Alternator quagmire being handled by mechanical idiot

I was taking advice on measuring my alternator brushes, so I got out the allen wrenches and took the cover off. I took my manual out to see exactly what they looked like and where exactly they might be found and have quite likely messed up my alternator worse than it was to begin with.

I don't know what they are (were), but one of the two apparently spring-loaded square rods inside the cover was completely broken off flush with the base, and the other is cracked and flimsy, but still there.

The cylindrical wired thing inside (yes, I AM an idiot...stator coil?) came out, and after I placed it back in, it is now impossible to remove again. I'm not certain that it is in the right position (if such a thing matters?). I've found the parts on eBay -- they look fine, exactly like what I apparently destroyed.

Is there a one and only position that the stator coil (?) must be placed in? and where are these magical brushes I hear so much about? Also, what are those square retractable pieces broken inside my alt cover?

Sorry for the length, but I loathe being vague if I can help it.

Thanks!!

 

Hello there.
First things first. YOU are NO idiot. You have made an effort to better yourself and that speaks volumes as to your worth as a person.
Your first step should always be to pull out the book and familiarize yourself with the proceedure you are about to tackle. It will help you minimize potential damage and speed up your efforts.
As you observed, those square rods with springs behind them...those used to be carbon brushes. From the sounds of it, they must be replaced before you burn up the alternator. You must first remove the screws (2) that secure the brush holder to the inside of the alternator cover. These WILL be difficult, best accomplished with an impact driver. The alternator rotor can be in any rotational position it rests in, it's alignment for this purpose is not important. If you purchase the high dollar brushes, you should be able to unscrew the old brushes (don't chuck the old holders, they can be reused) and install the new ones, piece of cake. Be sure to observe the difference between the holders, they are not interchangable.
Clean out the whole of the alternator cavity with some solvent or degreaser. Neutralize any leftovers and clean up. Reinstall the screws and such with a touch of anti-seize, that will make removal later a much easier proccess.
Best of luck and let us know how you fair with your efforts.

 

Thank you Robert, you're too kind.

I got halfway through that list the other day on my own, but the biggest snag after reading your post concerns those 2 screws. Got one out...the other one is stripped beyond use. One hard turn and the screwdriver just spun completely around, but the screw unfortunately didn't.

Any further suggestions for the stripped out screw? I found this assembly, cover, wiring, and stator on eBay for about $20 total...worth a shot?

By the way, have any idea why that stator (or whatever it is) is so immobile? It simply won't budge. I'm not quite stupid enough to try and yank it out with pliers or grips, but should it be in there so tight? Also, the cover doesn't fit back on flush, I'm afraid the stator isn't positioned exactly right. Should you be able to twist it around at all, because I certainly can't.

Thanks again, Robert!

 

Vice grips, it's about the only way to get them out once they've stripped. And they are a beast to get out, they seem to fuse themselves to the alternator cover......I assume that you're talking about the two large screws that secure the Brush Plate (the brown plastic piece) to the alternator cover.

I have replacement screws available if you need them. Triple-agree with Robert on the anti-seize compound when re-installing.

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... t=180.html


HCP1030VGU OEM alternator brush plate holder SCREW, very good used condition, includes the integral flat washer and lockwasher:
$ 2.00 each

OR:

HCP1030 OEM alternator brush plate holder SCREW, new:
$ 1.00 each

NOTE: the original brush plate holder screws had an integral washer and lockwasher. The OEM replacement screws do NOT, and you need to order the flat washer and the lockwasher separate:

HCP315 OEM alternator brush plate holder LOCKWASHER, new:
$ 0.50 each

HCP2173 OEM alternator brush plate holder LOCKWASHER, new:
$ 0.25 each

Also, If you are going to be doing your own work on the bike, I strongly recommend that you buy a set of "JIS" screwdrivers.........Japanese hardware (screws) use a slightly different style phillips screw head, and US-style phillips screwdrivers will MUCH more easily strip out the JIS style screws. The cross-slots on JIS style screws are much "squarer" than on US style screws, as are the JIS screwdriver tangs. US screws, and the tangs on the screwdrivers for US style screws, are much more "rounded" and thus they are so prone to stripping out the JIS screws. By the way, you can easily identify JIS screws by the small punched "dot" in-between any two of the slots in the screw head......the small dot "on the forehead", mich like on an exotic Indian belly-dancer gal, identifies it as an asian (JIS) screw.


HCP5904 JIS Standards SCREWDRIVER SET. Japanese phillips drive screws have sharper corners than regular phillips screwdrivers so they won't turn out under heavy torque. In order to take advantage of this feature, and to avoid stripping out the JIS screw heads by using US-standard phillips screwdrivers, it's a good idea to invest in a set of quality JIS-standard screwdrivers. This set of 4 contains one each of #1, #2, #3, and #4 sized-tip screwdrivers, and this range of sizes will handle everything down to an M3 sized screw (that's tiny, like the size of the petcock faceplate mounting screws) all the way up to screws bigger than anything I've seen used on these bikes. They all feature sturdy plastic handles, chrome plated steel shafts, and come in a handy vinyl storage pouch.
$ 34.00

The only reason the STATOR might not want to come out is that it is in there "cocked" slightly sideways, and has jammed/wedged itself in place. You can try GENTLY rapping on it with a rubber mallet or similar, all the way around, to try and striaghten it out again. BE CAREFUL, you don't want to break the insulation on the wires, as that ruins the stator.

The heavy central ROTOR, which has the bolt going through the center of it, is not actually retained by the bolt....the bolt is just a safety device, for all practical purposes. The rotor is pressed onto a tapered shaft, and locks itself to that shaft via friction, and the best way to remove the rotor is via a rotor puller tool:


HCP1404 Aftermarket Rotor Puller-Removal Tool, screws into the threaded
hub of the alternator,
$ 14.95

HCP6495 Aftermarket rotor puller tool Attachment Tool, slides into the
end of the internally threaded alternator shaft and prevents the tip of
the HCP1404 from "mushrooming" the end of the shaft.
$ 3.95


I also carry the alternator Brushes, since you'll be needing those!:

HCP215 Alternator Brushes with Holders set, pair of brushes with their metal bracket holders:
$ 19.00 set

The cover won't go back on because of the problem listed above (the stator is cocked slightly in the housing). Yes, you should be able to rotate it when it is positioned correctly, and correctly also means that the lead wires are positioned facing the "outside" (towards the cover).

Note that along the outer edge of the round ring "core" of the stator, that there is a very slight machined "edge" or "recess" in the outermost section of it. That recess is what helps align/lock the stator in place against the inner edge of the engine case and against the generator cover (you'll notice a matching "step" on the inside edge of the generator cover).

ALSO, note that this same stator core ring has very slight machined clearance "scallops" or depressed areas, along it's top edge surface, where the alternator cover bolts (3 of them) goes over the stator core ring. YOU MUST GET THOSE "SCALLOPPED AREAS" ALIGNED CORRECTLY in order for the alternator cover screws to go in properly. To make matters worse, most of the stator core rings have more than one set of these machined screw depression "scallops".....these stator core rings were designed to be used on more than one style bike, and thus all the possible different clearance areas were machined into the raw "core" before the stator was wire-wound, thus allowing one basic "core ring" to be used for many different configuration alternators.

Good luck, slow and easy will do it!

 

You CAN get that stripped-headed screw out of there with the Hand-held Impact Driver. Sears Craftsman Tools has a fine one with the lifetime Craftsman Guarantee for around 20-Bucks.

It comes WITH the four Bits. The one you'll be needin among them.

Sounds like you needed to embark on this project; anyway.
Once you get squared-away and reinstall your new Brushes in the Holder ... your Alternator will be healthy, again ... and you'll be getting good charging current for charging the Battery and running the Bike and accessories.

You're at the point where you should rehearse and then do the assembly.

Having a Workshop Reference Manual is absolutely necessary.

I always tell everyone to buy the Factory Manual Specific to your Bike. That way there's NO confusion cross-referencing specs like the Haynes Manuals are loaded with covering many Models and variants.

 

Thank you all for your help, it has been a Godsend. I also appreciate the non-condescending manner in which you imparted your wisdom to me.

I'll probably have to order those screws/washers from ya, along with the brushes, but I think I might be able to forgo the Japanese drivers for now. I DO have the Haynes manual, which has proven to be invaluable to a mechanical novice, although I could really use more pictures and diagrams...thinking really hard about that CD.

Hey Chacal, do you take credit/debit cards?

Thanks again, everyone...I'm sure this won't be the last time you hear from me.

 

Yamama....credit debit cards taken....but only via Paypal!

 

There is this :Craftsman 6 pc. Power Extractor and Damaged Screw Remover
Sears item# 00952156000 Mfr. model# 52156 $50
or this: Craftsman 7 pc. Drill-Out/Screw-Out Power Extractors
Sears item# 00952157000 Mfr. model# 720SR$40
or this: Craftsman 4 pc. Drill-Out Power Extractor
Sears item# 00952155000 Mfr. model# 450SR $30
or this: Craftsman 3 pc. Deck-Out Screw and Bolt Removers
Sears item# 00952151000 Mfr. model# 52151 $30
I own the Deck-out and Drill-out kits. They work well. Might save you a heap of time and aggravation. Best of luck to you!

 

How about money orders? My mom got her PayPal account completely robbed by some hacker @#$%%^ and that has resulted in my refusal to use that system.

Got an address for mailed payments?

 

Yamama.....and I'll bet you paypal wouldn't help her at all, correct?

In business-school jargon, that strategy is known as "smashing the head of the golden goose repeatedly against the wall until it dies a slow, twitching, and agonizing death".

You can pay via money order at:

XJ4Ever
PO Box 98393
Atlanta, GA 30359-8393

Orders over $100.00 get free standard shipping in the USA, or $ 5.00 for Priority Mail shipping.

Orders under $100, you need to provide me with the specific list of items you wish to purchase, and I'll give you a shipping price. You can PM the list to me or e-mail to: info@xj4ever.com

Thanks.

 

Update...

Got the parts in the mail (thanks, chacal!) and FINALLY got the old brushes off and the new ones on. Had a bit of trouble getting the cover back on. I got the stator coil loose and re-aligned it where it is supposed to be, but when I tried to put the cover on, there was about a half inch or so gap between the cover and the housing.

I took a screwdriver and a hammer and lightly tapped the metal ring all the way around until it fit flush. I put the cover back on and dug out the jumper cables in my car trunk. I hooked them up, and after about 10 minutes of attempts, the bike cranked up fine! I rode it around the neighborhood (about a mile and a half) and rode it back to my garage. I let it sit for about 5 minutes and then turned it off.

Now, when I try to start it, I get a scary, fast clicking sound. The turn signals blink once, then stay on, and the horn isn't very loud. Pleeease tell me it's probably just a dead battery, or at least a very drained battery. I don't have any time to work on it until tomorrow, and tomorrow being Sunday means I can't get my registration renewed until the following day.

What do ya think? Everything seemed to go back into place with the exception of the stator coil having to be tapped in. Weak battery?

 

Weak battery.

Classic symptoms of a battery not charged-up enough.