Ultrasonic Carb Cleaning

I read a post somewhere regarding using an ultrasonic cleaner for cleaning your carb bodies and parts. The post started out as a question whether it was ok to split the carb bodies to put in a small ultrasonic cleaner. The answer of course was a resounding NO.

The post went on and I believe Rick made a comment saying to do a proper sonic cleaning you needed a 40 to 50 gallon machine.

I've been toying with the idea of buying a small 1.5 gallon unit that would fit the carb bodies completely immersed and wondered if it would be worthwhile. I mean how effective would it be. I mean lord knows when it comes to small parts your really can't beat it. But would it be effective on the whole body?

Any thoughts?

 

I will have to make a longer post (and read the other post) when I have more time. But for now I will say, yes a good lab grade ultrasonic cleaner works great on carbs. My brother has two, one is a 2.5 gallon and the other is 1.5 or 2 (I don't remember as he just got it). He cleaned my carbs and has been cleaning carbs for his Honda CB friends, it works great. The cleaners are expensive though, I think he paid $200 for the smaller cleaner he just got... and that was a good deal on a used machine.

His are big enough to fit the seca carbs without splitting the banks, but his Honda CB carbs are a little wider and he does split them and has no problem.

 

Gwyndwr, I believe that the response of NO was meant to discourage the regular joe from just pulling their carb bank apart without planning out the attack. The rack can be successfully pulled apart and reassembled with a bit of knowledge beforehand. Rick's recommendation holds merit as TheFox pointed out, there are cheap cleaners out there that are a waste of money. The cost for a machine capable of performing to the neccessary level will cost you a couple of hundred dollars at least. I would ultrasound the carb bodies in a heartbeat if only I had access to such a machine. In my humble opinion, if you are pulling the rack apart, it would be very wise to replace the shaft seals (Chacal has them) at that time given the age of our beasts. Best of luck to you.

 

I have to agree with Robert's post. I use an ultrasonic to clean parts but mine is too small for even one carb body. Sper scientific has some good ultrasonics for a good price. I have been using one of theirs for seven years in my laboratory. Some auto shops are using them now so it might be possible to have a shop drop your carbs in. But you have to know that the cleaning solution is safe for the fuel passage orings.
I have taken a different approach. I found a parts washer on craigslist for $25. It is mounted on top of a 35 gallon drum. The seller used mineral spirits but I will be using simple green concentrate with water. Not ultrasonic but should help make cleanups easier.

 

I picked up a little Ultrasonic Cleaner at Harbor Freight to use for cleaning fuel injectors. Unfortunately it's not big enough to hold a carb.

 

I actually agree with Rick's advice. Taking apart the carb body to drop them one at a time into an ultrasonic truly isn't worth it. The time you save in the cleaner you lose in the reassembly.

There are lab machines for sale (like you said $200-$500) that will fit an entire XJ carb body. I'm honestly thinking of purchasing one. I was just a little frightened away when I read the post saying anything less than a 40 to 50 g unit was probably a waste of time. I think for the occasional carb a 1.5g unit will suffice.

Thanks guys

 

Having used ultrasonics I can assure you that a 1.5 will do the job. Here is a link to a smaller one that may be able to clean two bodies at a time by immersing one end of the rack at a time. I use the smaller one which won't do even one carb body.

http://tinyurl.com/3sjzcx

 

now this may sound just plain weird, but I gotta ask:

hadn't thought of sonic cleansing before but it makes lots of sense. happens I have a spare ultrasonic toothbrush (bought replacement then found the one I had lost).

No comparison to ultrasound bath and wouldn't deepclean carb bodies, but might this be a good tool (using Simplgreen solution suggested? or __?) to do some external general cleaning on accessible engine parts?

 

Verrrrry interesting, so give it a try and let us know. One thing I want to make perfectly clear is that an ultrasonic cleaner is a nice tool to use but it is in no way needed to do a proper carb cleaning. It is just easier.
For degreasing the eternal of carbs I use brake cleaner. Amazing stuff. The spray can will blast most gunk right off.

 

Unless you have a tank to accomodate the whole rack ... it isn't worth it.

I bring a stripped-down rack of four to a Cleaner and let him put them in with another big job. (You have to know the guy and he needs to see the color of money)

The time in the tank just does the outsides of the bodies nice.

 

I have an 2 gallon HEATED ultrasonic tank and it works awesome. I do strip the carbs completely down (except the throttle valves - which for some it would be best to get those out too). I can fit all 4 of the bodies in there and just enough room to get the little parts in beside them.

The tank gets hot enough that it is steaming when I remove the carbs 2 hours later. I then clean them throughly with carb cleaner then brake cleaner. This washes out the stuff that was loosened up with the tank. It has worked wonders on carbs that were cleaned multiple times with no success. The unit would have cost $1500 but I got lucky and scored it from a bowling friend. He went to a $6000 5 gal tank and let me have this one. he cleans medical instruments for his living.

Anyway, the carbs look like new when they are done. It takes me a good 8-10 hour day to clean up a set (and set them). I specialize in Vmax services and charge $400 exchange to do a set. I have not tried a set of the XJ's yet but I do have a couple of old sets laying around. I may try and do a set later this summer.

Sean Morley

 

That's really good information Sean. I have been looking at a few 1.5 to 2 gallon medical cleaners myself and I didn't want to dish out the money for very little gain.

I'm curious though, what cleaner do you use in the tank?

 

Sean, what type of fluid are you using in that ultrasonic cleaner? Although they work wonders in cleaning, I notice that they tend to stain the carb bodies something fierce, they come out all grey and ruddy looking...

 

I asked him first chacal. Get in line...lol

 

Hey, your message wasn't there while I was slowly pecking away at my kepboard!

 

Uhhh....keyboard, maybe?

 

LOL, there is plenty for all.

Actually, I have the connection for that as well. I use a chemical from BG products:

http://www.bgprod.com/home.html

I'll try to find out what is best from one of their engineers and let you know. One of the Vmax guys there works in the R&D dept and has been really helpful (of course I help him out too).

Sean

 

OK, talked to my bud and he tells me that the normal consumer cannot buy the products like what he is giving me. He suggested that the best you can get would be the "canned" cleaners like you see in stores.

I do know the stuff I use does not discolor the carbs but don't know about the other stuff.

Sean

 

Don't want to suggest anything complicated, but if you feel this stuff is way better (and safe and all the usual stuff), there's a distributor near me. Since I have a telecom company and use electronic cleaning products could probably arrange a case to be shipped to Chacal for consumer sales or whatever.

Not a plan or strong suggestion or anything, just an offer in case the cleaner is so much better it's worth tracking down.

[Len probably just loves my help making inventory and business commitments for him. ]

 

I don't know what they are using exactly as it's not any of the cleaners they sell. They use it to produce some of thier products. At least this is how I understand him.

He just suggested that the stuff he got me is not readily consumer available due to environmental issues.

Sean

 

Let me take this discussion in a slightly different direction here. It sounds like ultrasonics would be great for cleaning the ouside of the carb bodies. For the sake of curiosity, would this sort of cleaning be suitable for breaking open clogged passages inside the bodies?

 

Actually, what it IS really useful for is cleaning inside the hidden passages. But unless it is a heated, solvent based, industrial-sized unit, it's not going to clear a totally "plugged" passage (like a bowl starter jet passage). The idea behind ultrasonic is that the actual "bursting" of the bubble imparts quite a bit of energy to whatever the bubble is in contact with at the time of implosion, and by having millions and millions of tiny bubbles exploding, well.....you get the picture.

However, the quantity of and energy within each exploding bubble is a function of the "size" of the unit, measured in the current draw of the oscillator unit, and the more, the merrier. The heat and the solvent serve mainly as a means to help soften/loosen the really hard stuff.

My method of carb cleaning is spray cleaner/brushes (wire and nylon) on the outside first, overnight dunk-in-the-Berryman's B12-gunk solvent, then into the ultrasonic for a hour or so, but all I have is a small tabletop unit (heated), and it's not rated for flammable solvent solutions, so I use the less aggressive (and probably less effective) bio-stuff.

This 3-step process gets the carbs really clean (you still should wire-probe and air-pressure blast all the little passages, and flush with pressurized carb or brake cleaner to verify cleanliness). But the Berryman's and the ultrasonic solution can/does leave the carb body a "dirty" color, and so you either have to glass-blead blast them (which means plugging up every possible access to the internals of the carbs to prevent the glass beads from getting back inside your clean passages) or---my favorite---put them into an industrial-strength (440V, 14-foot diameter) vibratory tumbler for a hour or two, and then they come out looking almost chrome-plated.

3 out of 4 dentists recommend the above method for their patients........

 

Depends how clogged and with what and for how long.

I've had Carb Bodies come back from an afternoon in the tank and still seen Siphon Tubes clogged shut.

Fuel Bowls with the Starter Jet Metering Ports in the bottom of the Fuel Bowl can get so clogged nothing short of re-drilling them is going to free them up.

The sound waves are great for the wide open spaces and nooks and crannies.

But, severely fowled, sat-around and evaporated, clogged with varnish small ports become a solid object that the sound waves just bounce off.

But, I'd rather hand a set of carbs to a Sound Cleaning guy to let them get bombarded and cleaned of the real nasty surface stuff without all the scraping and scrubbing ... than spend the better part of an afternoon making progress a square millimeter at a time!

 

I wish I had the viberator you speak of chacal. I once saw a set of pipes blued beyond repair go in one and come out looking like new. Unfortunately an inexpensive unit costs $40K. I haven't found anyone in the Vancouver area with one, but if anyone knows of one around here let me know. I'm going to ceramic coat my 4 to 1's with satin black and that machine can turn the satin finish to an almost black chrome like finish. It's a really nice look to say the least.

 

Vancouver is a pretty large city, look in your phone book for a place that does industrial metal processing/finishing---if there is no category for that, try calling up a machine shop or metal fabricator and see if they know someone in your area who does that type of work..........

 

Wanna hear something funny chacal?

I work at one of the oldest and largest gear cutting shops in Canada. I went out back to the welding and heat treating shop and I looked in the corner and read the plate on a machine I always thought was an oven only to see the words 'Wheel-A-Brator'. As it turns out we have one here. Unfortunately its loaded with hardened metal shot right now. Not so good for polishing, but great for derustification and stripping of paint off my larger parts.

Funny how we walk past things everyday without noticing.

 

DUDE! Good thing it wasn't a snake..........

Actually, hardened steel shot (of the appropriate size) is exactly what you want to use to polish carb bodies. It burnishes the surface and closes up the small "holes" in the surface and that's what give it the shine. Just make sure you plug up every hole in the carb that is SMALLER than the size of the shot being used, or that shot WILL get trapped up inside any "blind" holes and then you're in a world of hurt........

 

You can always also buy a vibrator for cleaning used gun shell casings. All kinds of various media can be purchased too for it.

Sean

 

So yesterday I put my exhaust manifold and muffler into the 'Wheel-a-Brator' and I am so fricking impressed. I was going to sandblast all the rust and bbq paint off them but 10 minutes in the shot blaster and Voila! Completely stripped to the metal and ready for ceramic coating. The shot we use is for taking the scale off gear blanks after heat treating so it's pretty violent. Fortunately the shot hasn't been changed for awhile and has become quite soft.

I stripped my bike down to the frame last night and brought it to work this morning. Half an hour later I have a frame ready to go to the powder coaters.

I'm in love with this machine! I thought I was going to have to spend days with a wire wheel getting the paint off this frame. Now I can spend more time looking for an ultrasonic cleaner.

I'll post some pics tonight if I have time.

 

trying this out, I bought a small sonic cleaner today and was surfing to find the best cleaning liquid. Didn't find that answer but ran across an interesting approach to making your own sonic cleaner.

This innovative guy wanted to clean his auto fuel injectors so clamped an electric engraver (vibration source) tightly to a Tupperware container. Swore it works great. Same principle might also apply to a larger (carb sized) container and some sort of larger vibration engine (I dunno what).

 

I can see it doing better then nothing but it won't be as good a purpose built unit.

Sean

 

I'm sure you're right about that. Personally know nothing about it other than what I saw on web forum, but interesting. Builder says he leaves parts in for 30 minutes (longer than cleaning times I've heard on many production sonic cleaners).

Still... intriguing idea if I can think of a stronger vibration source. Gotta be firmly fixed to the cleaning drum (or somehow immersed?). Maybe Don will have another of his awesome invento-genius brainstorms about this someday.

 

It's not just a vibration that does the job, it's a very high frequency sound that makes the cleaning power by producing millions of tiny bubbles.

Sean

 

may have that sound thing covered, Sean. I've been screaming at the dirty carbs for days now!

 

Greeting from the UK,

Sorry I am a bit of a lurker, but have found this site VERY informative, unfortunately I am back to biking after a long time and am well out of touch, and do not have much to add to the informed debates.

Anyway putting together a 81 JX650 which will need it's carbs doing ( as it has not moved for two years ,and only firing on 3 pipes at the moment ), and have been reading up about the different processes. ( old school etc )

Think I will try the ultrasonic method first ( can loose the cost through work ) and came across this vid which shows how quick it seems.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhGyK6MpkOQo ( this does not seems to be working )

Just type in to youtube ULTRASONIC CARB CLEANING

 

Hey redcorfe,

That Youtube link doesn't work. I would love to see it. What did you search under? Or repost the link.

 

OK, I'm sold! I watched a few videos of ultrasonic parts cleaning and it really is the bomb. I am currently negotiating purchasing some new 6.5L heated digital cleaners that would fit an XJ carb very easily. The manufacturer will sell in lots of 6 so when I get a price I'll post it here. If there are enough people interested we may get them for an even better price.

I'll see what happens tomorrow.

 

I was thinking of buying a tank but, have found a company in the UK who will overhaul and ultrasonically clean, for 80 GBP so not worth me messing about.
If there is anyone in the UK I can give you their name.

 

please do. I for one am getting very interested in ultrasonic cleaning.
thanks

 

Here's the email the manufacturer sent me today:

Dear Elvis,

Thanks for your reply.

Being leading manufacturer with factory in Shenzhen ( www.eumax.com.cn), we have many models, either in 110V or 220, also we can supply model with interchange between 110V and 220V ( USD 3/pc more than the unit price in price list).

Here attached is the price list on based of FOB Shenzhen. Min. order is USD 10,000.

If under USD 10,000, surcharge will be 15%.

You can select the models you like to order samples. THen we can calculate the total cost to deliver the sample to you.

Awaiting reply.

Best regards,
Edmond Choi



Now for doing carbs in a home shop, the model we would want the following model:

Kwun Wah International Ltd./Eumax Technology
Tel: (852) 28319031 Fax: 28329630 E-mail: info@kwunwah.com
Website:www.kwunwah.com / Factory Website: www.eumax.com.cn
Price List of Ultrasonic Cleaner of- May, 2008

MODEL: UD150SH-6L
POWER: 150W
FUNCTION: HC+ DT
UNIT PRICE: USD 180.0
FOB Shenzhen
Stainless Steel Basket: USD 10.0 (p/n: 13150)
Stainless Steel Rack): USD 4.5 (p/n: CL1705)
Tank Size LxDxH (mm): 327x176x150
Transducer (pc): 3

DT = Digital Timer HC= Heating Temp. Control
High Density Basket is available with 40% surcharge


So basically the price would be $180 + 10 + 4.5 = $ 194.50
Now there is a 15% surcharge and shipping but I bet I could talk the guy into dropping the surcharge, but worse case we're talking $225 plus shipping. This unit sells on eBay for $299 plus $40 shipping so we are getting a deal. The question is, who wants to get one? Let me know.

If anyone wants the full price list from the manufacturer let me know. I will email the word document to you. There are actually 30 different models that they make ranging from .7 liters to 45 liters.

 

I'd be interested.

 

Does that make three?

Robert, Gcrick, and myself?

 

I would be interested if I thought I could get the money together in the next couple of months but it's not looking good because baby is due in that same time frame

 

Well I'll see what the price is to ship three of these units over. PM me and we can figure out how we want them shipped and paid for.

 

Thanks Elvis but because I'm not doing any restoration work at present and I've just spent a pile of cash on parts it would be pretty hard to justify another few hundred bucks on a cleaner I won't be using for several months to my 7 month pregnant partner

 

If you find an agreeable fellow who runs an UltraSonic Cleaning Business you can approach him to place your Carbs inn the big tank along with a Job he's doing for a paying customer and "Give him something for the trouble"

I've done that a couple of times and had a rack of Bodies cleaned for 15-Bucks.

Sometimes the UltraSonic Cleaner is busy and needs to do more than one Job at a time anyway.

There's nothing wrong with asking and saving 60-Bucks for being nice!

 

I already counted you out Alive. I've gone through the birthing process and I know better than to be bringing home tools when your wife is in her "nesting" mode.

I got your back amigo.

Here's a picture of what you have to look forward to.





My little helper / grease monkey in training.

 

Hahahaha nice one Elvis.... I already have a 4 yr old helper who is always on my heels when I get the tools out

 

I'm going to have to politely as possible defer, mommy says her dad has an aneurism (8cm) below his heart just above the kidney. We're headed for Brazil and I'm pretty sure we are gonna be poor for a long time (airline tickets are at a premium right now). Sigh, guess I'll have to wait a while... a long while.

 

Very understandable Robert. I hope everything works out and the trip becomes more of a vacation for you.

I think I may have one sent over and I will try it out and critique it. Then I will sell it and buy another. The problem with this is the fact that we're all over the continent/world and it makes it hard to co/op something like this.