DynaBeads test

ok i'am trying to do a myth busters on dynabeads, but none of my tires needed balanced, no problem, make then out of balance
1 test ride with balanced tires (skip this i know their balanced, ride it a lot)
2 unbalance the front with 3/4 oz pipe solder
3 test ride to 90 mph, on noticeable change.....?
4 add 3/4 oz more weight, total 1 1/2 oz
5 test ride to 90 mph, on noticeable change....??
6 it's getting dark and cold, whats up how much weight does it take to feel a shake? i only have a few feet of solder left
so in order for the test to continue i need to get me a wobble, then see if the dynabeads can stop it

to be continued........

 

As you have discovered it takes a lot of unbalance to cause a problem which can lead the simple minded to think something like beads would actually work. Since most wheels are balanced pretty well from the factory and most new tires are well balanced you can actually get away with mounting a tire and not balancing it at all if you are careful. Here's a thread from the XS11 group talking about how to do that.
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.ph ... adid=17497

 

I seem to remember that out of balance in a tire is felt at certain speeds in cars lower than 60,, usually at very low speed comes on building in intensity then goes away as speed increases,,, I believe some of this may apply,,,,so maybe consentrate more in the 20-40mph range
becarfull with the 90mph wobble test will ya,,,,Dan

 

well the next step is to try another ounce of weight and keep adding till something shakes, then put in the beads and see if it stops
if it does stop then the beads work, even though they may be unnecessary
if they don't stop the shaking or it gets worse, then they don't work, i'am out 10 bucks, the myth is busted and i have little balls..........in my tire

 

You have quite a nasty habit of insulting people because you don't want understand the concept behind something. If everyone thought like you did then we wouldn't have motorcycles to ride, cars to drive, and planes to fly. Only the simple minded think these things will work right?

I've already given you one example of this EXACT setup working (albeit a different application) last December. Go back and read it.

 

I agree with the slower speed.
If you can, keep all the weight in one spot....but I'm amazed that 1.5 oz doesn't have you bouncing down the road.

Just for kicks, try the back tire. You MAY be able to "feel" it more underneith your "backside" and it would probably be a "safer" spot to experiment.

I know the technology works (on tractor-trailers), I'm just not sure how it works on a motorcycle.

 

I too was very curious to see if this actually works, so put them into front and back tyres of the X.

I removed all the old weights that were on the wheels. Bike rides perfectly smoothly up to 90 mph - I don't know whether its the beads or not. They are inexpensive and can't do any harm IMO.

 

ok i'am neutral on this except for my 10 bucks,and heres what i found

kept adding weight till i could defiantly say i felt a bounce, not much but it was there,accelerated moderately to 60 hesitating each 10mph at 70 felt the bounce start, got no worse at 80...ok thats 3 1/8oz of solder (wow)
back home let out 30 psi added the beads (1.25oz) and put 30 psi back in
back to the same road, same 10 mph steps
felt something start at 60 this time and by the time i got to 70 i couldn't read the speedometer anymore
test aborted, myth busted
i don't think i missed anything ? i didn't notice anything till i put on the last weight so putting in a ounce of beads wouldn't hurt anything i guess
i'am sure not going to take the tire off to get them out

 

one more thought
there was a lot of "static cling" going on while putting the balls in maybe they need a while to discharge, the test was only about 3 miles...?
if Mr Steve wouldn't have said some of that stuff, i probably would have let the bag set around till i lost it or somebody spilled them
i'am sure Steve knows what goes 'round comes 'round
i gotta go wrap my solder back up

 

Did you try riding the bike after taking the weights off and before the beads went in?

 

Unfortunately, I didn't try it before the beads went in and after the weights came off.

I don't know whether they made a difference or not, but the the bike cruises smoothly. I am a bit nervous of taking an 'old' bike over 90, I use the FJR for that stuff.

 

Maybe this video makes sense of the 'process'

http://centramatic.com/Demo/video2.mpg

I am neutral so far.

 

Out of curiosity (and for clarification) are these the DynaBEADS or the DynaBALLS? (Looks like the beads to me)
Different products from different makers.

 

http://www.innovativebalancing.com/index.html
beads
the sales pitch sounds so convincing i keep thinking my test was flawed but the old school seat of the pants test don't lie
the only thing that troubles me is i felt nothing at all till i added the last weight
anyone else care to try ?

 

I'm not a physics pro but wouldn't you need 3-1/8 oz. of beads to counterbalance your added solder weight?

 

I hate to say it but I think your test is flawed polock,,,,you were not able to detect the imbalance of the small weights while riding so this proves to me that you can't tell if they work or not because of this,,,,,,you did cause an inbalance you just could not prove it,,,,interesting,,,,

fixing the vibrations coming from the front wheel would have it's benifit if only detectable in theory,,,,beads,,,,,it's not on the short list,,,,maybe on the long 1

 

tomestl: i'am far from a physics wiz myself but heres what i was thinking
i added weight 3/4oz at a time till i felt something, then put in the beads so they should only have to counterbalance the last amount put on to stop the shake
they didn't have to make it perfect, just better,but it didn't get better it got worse

 

dburnettesr:

....just so you could NOT prove it.... ya lost me there buddy
the wheel was balanced before i started with 1/2oz of weight and was almost perfect so putting another 3/4oz in the same place did make it out of balance
but i couldn't feel it
riding it is the only way i have to test it, and it didn't show up till around 3oz
and the beads made it worse
wrap a 16" piece of solder on your spoke and see if you can feel it

 

I'm on your side polock,,, I would not use these to fix a wobble,,,or in a shortcut to balance a wheel,,,,thanks for the test,,,,myth is busted imo also on second thought,,,the idea of loose rotating mass of a significant amount inside my tires makes me nervous....small amount in theory could do something for some vibrations any more I'm getting nervous again,,,,

would you tell somebody to just put some beads in there till the wobble goes away I don't think so,,,,Dan

 

Take the wheel to a bike shop and have it computer spin balanced if you can find one with the machine for it. Front end wobble makes for a bad day of riding.

 

the reason this dynabead stuff started for me is my other bike is a 85 bmw k100rs, with one of those single sided swingarms
when you take the 4 lug nuts off theres a hole in the center big enough for a small bird to fly thru, takes a special tool that fits on a spin balancer and they have one at the bmw shop ($) and i don't go there unless it's payday and i worked some ot
after the weight trials i can see if you follow the paint dot to the heavy point on the rim, which ain't always the valve stem, there should be no reason to use anything but a static balance and the wheel bearings

 

Ok, I get it... BTW kudos for actually doing the test!

 

Yeah, and you'd have to glue them all to the side of the wheel opposite where the solder was placed.

 

If you go back to the "Fat front tire" thread someone actually looked up the physics behind this theory, and as reported the centrifugal force would in fact cause the beads to settle, or gather, at the point of imbalance.

 

No, you wouldn't. That's the point of dynamic balancing.

 

Maybe this will help. From the website:

That seems to make sense, Polock's Mythbuster test notwithstanding... :wink:

 

I have trouble with this statement I found on the dynabeads web site,,,,,can't put it on a tire balance machine to see if it works,,,,please profesors explain this,,,,an don't give me the it's to complicated to understand crap either,,,,sorry for the atitude to those that believe,,,,,but please give us some science, the industry standard machine can't balance the tire with these in it,,,,it does not say it takes awhile it says no!!!!

quote from dynabeads site
Can I put the tire on a balancer to see if it's working?
No. Dyna Beads operates on physics principles, and requires the tire assembly to be in motion against a road surface to detect the exact counterbalance position. An electronic balancer has a solid, fixed mount, and does not allow the tire to react to imbalance.

My vehicle has a [shimmy, shake, wobble]. Will your beads fix this?
No. There are three terms commonly used to describe lateral (back and forth) movement of the steering wheel, wobble, shimmy and shake. Two of these are a result of lateral imbalance of the tire/wheel assembly.

Wobble - this is more a function of mechanical suspension components than anything else, but can also be a result of bent or damaged rims.
Mechanical Imbalance - This is lateral movement caused from tire or wheel non-uniformity or improper bead seating. Corrected by measuring the amount of tire and wheel runout and replacing the defective component.
Weight-related Imbalance - This is lateral movement at normal driving speeds commonly characterized as "shimmy" or "shake" resulting from unequal weight on both sides of the tire and wheel circumferential centerline. The wider the tire, the lower the aspect ratio, the more likely this is to occur.

 

I like the fact that you are testing this, but the million dollar question is whether the weight of beads you add = the weight of the solder you have on the tire.

The weight of solder you add may have less of an effect when compared to the weight of the beads. What I mean is this: the wire was wrapped to the spoke of the wheel and has a difference in leverage (moment arm of inertia?) than the beads which are inside the tire and will settle on the surface. It is like spinning on your office chair with a 5 lb weight with arm extended vs the arm in towards the body. Same weight but different force due to the moment arm. Of course here we are talking an inch or two, but with a few grams, it may have an impact.

Just a thought, I may be off in left field here...

 

That's a lie. Just because they keep saying it won't make it come true.

 

That's because it works on faith! None of these kinds of scams can stand up to any kind of actual testing like checking the balance on a tire balancer.

 

You know, my tire is only round until it has the weight of the bike (and me) on it. Then it has a flattened spot at the road.........

I wonder what bumps do to the "Axis of rotation".

 

First off, a case of virtual beer and a hi - 5 to Polock for testing and reporting. Not that real men do alot of laundry, but have you seen a washing machine go out of balance? A pair of blue jeans gets wadded up on 1 side, and it pulls all the other clothes to the off-center mass.
Assume that the wash tub is perfectly round. The offset weight spins out-of-round, the axis of rotation is no longer the "axle", exacerbating the condition. All loose clothes goes to this new "low" spot.

On the other hand, semi trucks tires have had about 6 OZ of some white powder put in them for the balancer for a long time.

This powder, or the dyna-beads will bounce off the inside on EVERY revolution, at hiway speeds, as the tire flattens out at the bottom. The angle of the bounce would tend to move everything forward a bit.

On the XS link earlier in this thread, one guy commented that most people can't feel an imbalance until 3 1/2 OZ. Exactly where this experiment ended. I'd say more experimenting is in order.

Has anyone ever shaved a motorcycle tire true? I did a car set once.
Most tires have a slight hop to the tread. 1/4 inch + or - .

 

If you have faith the beads feel the centrifugal force in the rotating tire you've also got to have faith they will know what to do about the bump in the bottom! Faith based balancing won't work if you have doubts!

 

why not use a spin balancer to test the beads? because the wheel has to develop a shake for the center of mass to move from the center of rotation
so it has to shake before it can stop it from shaking, thats why beads can't be used on crank shafts, flywheels and such, they can't move, the bearings hold them
so on a bike wheel, really the only way it can move is inline with the forks or a arc with the swingarm, i guess the forks can flex to some extent but the swingarm can't stretch or compress, unlike a washer drum that can go anywhere
so now the little beads are looking for the low spot and equilibrium but it keeps changing, not to mention they keep getting bounced around by the contact patch
now comes the question, should i put the rest of them in the back tire ?
a little voice in my head keeps saying" if it ain't broke don't fix it"

 

Listen to the voice. It's never let me down. :wink:

 

Sure. Put them in. That's what they are for. You might be surprised to find that with the rest of them in there the tire will rotate in a completely balanced condition.

 

Which is exactly why it develops a wobble. The imbalanced wheel "tries" to balance itself around its center of mass (the point at which mass is equally distributed around). However, it can't since it's tied to a fixed point (the axle). So the tire tries to pull the axle to it's center of mass which in turn pulls the forks or swingarm. Then the motion moves to the bike frame or handlebars which can be felt as a wobble, shimmy, or shake as the bike absorbs the energy being passed to it from the imbalanced wheel.

Also a washer drum is fixed as well, just not as much as a wheel is. If you've ever see a washer that's incredily out of balance walk across the floor, then you've seen then drum forcing the washer to spin about it's center of mass rather than the "axle".

 

Are we getting any closer to a bottom line on the Dyna Beads?

Do they ... or, ... don't they work as advertised?

I thought the science behind it proved they would balance the tire out?
I don't see any debunking of them on the web!

 

I knew I should have run my tires without them first, just to see if there was any difference.

But since they're in, screw taking them out.

And no matter what Steve says, I honestly believe they work.

 

What I want to know is why would anyone spend money on faith based beads that won't work to balance the tires unless you believe in them when you can REALLY BALANCE the tires for free by just re-using the existing weights or turning the tire so it balances without any weights?

 

Probably for the same reason anyone would believe acetone will give them better fuel economy and not eat up the seals in their carbs... :wink:

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... etone.html

 

Simply to prove you wrong. You come off poorly in every post I've read by you.

 

Beginning close scrutiny.
I want to see a scientific debunking.

No attacks or name calling.
Lets keep it on the tracks and not let anything get too far out of hand.

Don't take a dispute public when you can argue about it until the cows come home using the Private Message function!

 

Interesting thread... At the risk of opening this back up... has anyone had substantial findings? I would have to think that it would work in theory, and as Rick stated, there are usually several sites that will pop up calling BS "BS," and I don't see any.

I tend to rely on things that can be proven, and at the same point in life I was taking Physics classes... I was also taking Philosophy classes... and it's amazing how many people can call scientific fact "faith-based" whilst quoting religious doctrine. Those of you riding with the Dynabeads that feel they work, I imagine you are correct, and I doubt the claims you have made after riding down the road with them are simply based on faith.

I am going to try these for myself, regardless. If it works for me... then it works, regardless of what a Kilo of solder may do if I were to ever desire causing an imbalance. I'm surprised I haven't seen further testing from RickCoMatic, :lol:

 

There's no critical reviews from the Scientific Community that I could find.

Do I want to put them in my Bike tires?

Send me a Free Sample and I'll give it a shot. Otherwise, I'm good to go without the beads and with no side taken will let this discussion come to a rest.