starter clutch

recently my starter clutch has started chattering or just spinning intermitently when the bike is cold i baught a new starter clutch and idler gear ------------before i tear into it i was just wondering if anyone has done this job before and once i have the cover off,chain and clutch out will i have to open the case to get the idler gear out- or can i just pull it out the same cover------- or is there more to it

 

You have to tear the engine down completely.

Have you been using synthetic oil?

 

yes i switched it over to synthetic for the last two changes is that bad

 

bump

 

Switching to synthetics is not a bad idea. I'm not aware of anyone suffering performance issues as a result. One question comes to mind though, what oil and viscosity are you using?

 

If you don't mind, could you post some pics as you do it? As I will have to do this soon as well.

Where did you get the new parts?

 

i might just remove the clutch and hope the gear is notworn badly------------the synthetic oil that i am using is AMSOIL motorcycle oil (no friction modifyers) 20w50 ---------- the guys at the local yamaha shop said it might just be the springs in the clutch are weak----------- i got the new parts at the Yamaha shop

 

I am using Mobil 20w 50.



11 SKU: 1J7-15583-01-00
CAP, STARTER CLUTCH SPRING

12 SKU: 90501-04623-00
SPRING, COMPRESSION

Is it number 11 and/or 12? That is the only thing that is listed as a spring...

 

bump

 

#10 is a roller, #11 is a plunger, and #12 is the spring. When the starter spins the clutch, the spring forces the plunger out against the roller which grabs onto the shaft which spins the crank through the attached chain, which is, BTW, not a primary chain, it is the starter chain. XJ's have gear primary drive. If there is not enough grip between the plunger and the roller, it can skip, causing the grinding, clacking noises you hear. I have been told by a Yamaha mechanic with over 20yrs experience in the trade that it is possible for some synthetics to greatly increase the chances that this will occur. Also, it takes very little wear on the plungers before they no longer grip the rollers properly. Before I'd tear into the motor (everything but the crank and tranny will have to come apart, including 39 bolts which hold the case halves together), I'd be sorely tempted to try flushing the motor with a couple of cheap dino oil flushes to see if I could get things to improve. I did this two summers ago on a turbo Seca and it was NOT a fun job. XJ motors are well designed, but even the best designed motors usually have an Achilles heel. Putting the starter clutch so deeply inside the motor is the XJ's.

 

hey MAC is it possible to replace the clutch without takeing the engine apart

 

Yeah, there is a description of it available, but it's dicey. One dropped part and you will have to go in anyway. Being a bit of a parts and tools dropper, I didn't even bother trying. Try searching the forums, it is described in detail somewhere. Good luck.

 

It is possible to replace the springs/rollers in the starter clutch without taking the engine apart. The technique is to go in through the hole at the back of the alternator. In short, alternator cover off, remove rotor with appropriate rotor puller tool, and then you'll need the right size torx tool to remove the plate that sits behind. Elsewhere on this site there is a step by step process to doing this - it involves keyhole surgery, safety measure to ensure nothing falls into the engine and a very patient and gentle maneouvering to get the face of the starter clutch facing outward to the hole - it can't be removed from memory - you have to work on it through the hole. It can be done, it has been done. But patience is required. Also, you can't remove the idler gear doing it this way but you can let it loos if you take off the clutch and clutch basket to get at the bolt that holds it in place. Before anything is done using this method, wire any small part like a gear etc. up so it doesn't inadvertently go for a walk inside the crankcase. Of course, forseeing this you would have placed some cloth or plastic sheet underneath and inside the hole to catch any falling part. Do a search on this site for the step by step instructions - it has been listed several times.

 

And if you'r going to be attempting to use the above method, have a magnetic pick-up tool(s) handly, magnetize your screwdrivers and sockets, etc............

 

i am a full time Audi Tech so i have all the tools and experience of working in tight spots so i will probably try this----------- thanks you guys are awesome

 

i found thids post by RICKOMATIC

Here's how a member of XJ-Planet replaced his starter clutch WITHOUT removing the engine and splitting the cases. This + SHORTCUT + is used at Yamaha Dealerships. The technician charges FLAT RATE. That means ... He does the job using the shortcut ... but, CHARGES for the work as if it was done -- The Hard Way. I have NOT done this procedure yet. I will employ this shortcut when it is time for me to do the starter clutch ... at which time, I will renew the drive clutches, too!

The member who performed this shortcut had never done the procedure before ... as well. His text appears here as a courtesy to the members of this group from XJ-Planet.

+++ Notes on replacing the starter clutch without engine removal and case splitting. +++

By: Karl Hughes -- karl.hughes @ rmit.edu.au
Edited by: Rick Massey -- xj900owner @ aol.com

Yes, it is possible, (to overhaul the starter clutch without case spliting)* however if you drop the rollers, springs, or spring caps in the crankcase, you going to have to do it the "right" (split the cases)* way anyway...Be prepared....The keys are some patience and go slow...

I'm doing this from memory so if I left something out or you have a
question, please let me know....

First I took off the starter assembly off and the alternator cover
and positioned it aside.

Next you must remove the stator (the big
copper thing inside the cover that spins with/the engine) there's a
bolt in the middle to remove, but the stator has to be pressed off
the shaft, you'll have to have a special tool. (Actual Yamaha Special Tool)*

I've seen them on ebay, but I modified an old harmonic balancer removal tool (the threads were the same)...If you look at the stator it has threads
cast into its housing, thread the special puller bolt into that, and
while turning the puller, the stator will slide off the shaft. (May need an application of heavy torque -- the assembly will "Give" and come off)*

**(Tapping lightly on the puller bolt will often help loosening the pressed-on stator)** -- RickCoMatic

Next, remove the three torx screws that hold the retainer
plate to the case.

Then, the oil spray tube can be removed.

Now the tricky part.

Pull the shaft out of the case (the starter clutch unit will fall down) ((come-out and down))*

Using long screw drivers separate the two half's
of the clutch mechanism.

The half closest to you will have the chain wrapped around it, and half farthest from you (The Starter Clutch)* will contain the rollers, springs, and spring caps.

Using the long screwdriver, hold the farther section up higher than closer, using another screwdriver you can manipulate, and rotate the clutch/roller
mechanism around to remove the three rollers, springs, and caps....A
telescoping magnet will help a lot.

(EXERCISE EXTREME CAUTION WHEN REMOVING THE SMALL PARTS.)*

Reassemble the opposite of removal, go slow, make sure both halves of the clutch mate together properly, use a dab of grease to hold the springs, and caps together....

I will also add as a side note, as it may or may not be required to
do so, but I did have the trans clutch removed while doing this.

I also unbolted the idler gear that goes between the starter and the
starter clutch (this is done from the trans clutch side).

The idler gear will fall down an inch but can easily be manipulated with
magnets and screwdrivers.

+++++ End of text by Mr. Hughes +++++

Following added by me for your special attention.

Sacrifice a bed sheet. Cut the sheet into a LONG 2-inch "ribbons"
Use lengths of the long ribbon to STUFF into the cavity to PREVENT anything from (DROPPING) entering the engine cavity. STUFF long length of the ribbon into voids -- Tightly! When you have successfully dealt with those small parts that might "GET AWAY" ... you can easily remove ALL the safety stuffing by withdrawing the ribbon from the cavity.

If you drop anything into the cavity ... the SHORTCUT is OVER and you'll be needing to remove the engine and split cases to finish the job and retrieve those parts that fell into the engine cavity.

*Portions added / edited by Rick Massey

It's straight-forward wrenching until you replace the springs ans rollers ... then, you need your Open Heart Surgeon hat on!

 

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... LUTCH.html

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... LUTCH.html

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... LUTCH.html

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... LUTCH.html

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.ph ... box+remove

That ought to help.

 

blueseca:
i tried the shortcut and gave it about 15 minutes after i could spin the clutch/roller around with the long screwdrivers, then i said to myself
"this is crazy, i got to be nuts" then i pulled the engine and did it right
fast forward to the cases are open and i can see the starter clutch and it's broke in three pieces( i posted the picture here before )and wound up replacing the whole thing
moral of this story is,if you do the shortcut and do two spring/rollers and find a crack while doing the third......or if there is a crack and you miss it.....
or you drop a spring......get the picture?
bite the bullet dude and do it right,theres some other things in there to replace anyhow
the starter clutch comes with springs and pins and rollers, i think i still have the new ones i bought to do the shortcut, i'll fix ya up cheep

 

i baught the starter clutch and the gear new from yamaha----------- i think before i tear into it i will flush the synthetic out with 2 changes of cheap 20w50 then put good 20w50 conventional oil in to see if it will stop clacking


Mac posted

If there is not enough grip between the plunger and the roller, it can skip, causing the grinding, clacking noises you hear. I have been told by a Yamaha mechanic with over 20yrs experience in the trade that it is possible for some synthetics to greatly increase the chances that this will occur.

 

MAC saved me lots of trouble,

So this weekend i drained the synthetic out put Wall-Mart 20w50 in and rode it for a little while, then i drained the cheap oil out and put Castrol GTX 20w50 in and the starter does not malfuntion anymore, not even once. i cant believe it. I guess these bike were not made to run synthetic, i am sticking with conventional.