Look ma: no carbs!

Just wanted to share a bit about my recent conversion of my '82 SECA 750 to fuel injection. It still needs to have its ignition and VE maps dyno tuned, and I've got some tweaking to do for startup/warmup, but it's ridable and doing well.

Finally got rid of those #$^% Hitachis!

In case you're curious, the ECU is MicroSquirt, the fuel rail and injectors are from a '99 Hyundai Accent, the throttle body is from a '97 Ford Escort, the coils are from a '95 Saturn SC, and the fuel pump is a Bosch, marked SAAB, that's theoretically the same as those used on Harley Road Kings.

I fabricated a new ignition reluctor, but am still using the stock VR pickups.

The intake manifold I fabbed from copper pipe fittings, 1/4" copper plate, and 1/2" aluminum plate for the adaptor.

Other parts include a new 4-wire Bosch O2 sensor and a new coolant sensor (meant for I don't know what vehicle) mounted in the oil pan.







Cheers,
Paul

 

Holy crap! 8O

That's pretty cool. I'm impressed.

 

NICE!!! I'm sure you could sell numerous kits on this site alone, once you've fine tuned it!

Good Work !!!

 

I've been wondering if you were going to post that here. I've been watching your bike on the microsquirt forum, but I didn't see anymore updates.

How has going to a single throttle body affected the engine?

 

As soon as I saw this my jaw just dropped. I heard of people buying fuel injected systems from other bikes and fabing them up but I must say great job. My props to you sir

 

This site never ceases to amaze me.
It all looks very nice.
It looks like a thoughtful and careful build.
I hope it performs beyond your expectations and provides faultless Injection and performance.

I'm with those who believe that there is a market for the Fuel Injection conversion to these bikes getting rid of the finicky Hitachi's that are so difficult to bring in to maximum performance.

 

Thanks for all the feedback.

Once the dyno tuning is done (should be end of the month) I'll put together a success story on the MS forums along with more of the details, lessons learned, etc.

Personally, even as things stand now, I don't see any issue with the single throttle body. The bike pulls fine and has pretty good throttle response. I went with a single TB for a couple of reasons: one was easy availability from a local scrapyard, the other was that the TB includes an idle air valve, which I think will be important in achieving the kind of drivability I want; hooking one in with a quad TB bank would have been pretty complicated.

 

Thats pretty neat! I too think that would be cool to mass produce and sell. A video on youtube would be cool with the engine running so I can hear it

 

you are Da man! Way to go. no more carbs to sync.

 

How is the electrical system handeling the drain? Is there enough juice to keep it all running with all the lights?

 

Man, that's awesome.

I'd love to do that to my 550. Mikunis aren't as finiky as Hitachis, but every time I ride my R6 I wish the Seca was that trouble-free and responsive.

If you wouldn't mind, once you get it all tuned, I'd really like to take a look at it in person. I grew up in the Springs and live up near Boulder now.

 

i love this stuff! very clean install, interested to see how it changed the power/mileage

 

That is a cool setup, how much of an increase in mileage do you think it will get?

 

Good question about the electrical system. That is the thing that most worried me, especially since I couldn't see any easy way to upgrade the alternator on this engine.

I was most concerned about the fuel pump. I would have liked to have found a good source for a Delphi, as they make some pumps specificly designed for small engines which draw less than 1.5A. I ended up settling for a Bosch (on eBay) that was advertised as being for a Harley Road King. It's actually marked SAAB, though, and, AFAIK, SAAB doesn't OEM for Harley. This fuel pump draws 4.4A when running. It was just small enough to install in the tank through the access cutout for the fuel level sensor.

The new coils probably draw a bit less than the old ones, since they are being properly dwelled by a more intelligent control system. The injectors probably average 1 to 1.5A of draw total. I don't know how much power the oxygen sensor takes, but the ECU itself draws less than 2A.

The end result is that the system actually loses a little bit of charge at idle, but starts charging the battery at about 2K RPM... keeping it charged well enough when riding. I certainly don't have any extra capacity, but I don't really need any either.

If I have any problems with it down the road I may try harder to get a Delphi pump. Someone on the MicroSquirt forum suggested the Honda Rincon pump as being a good choice and apparently not too expensive or difficult to find. During my initial searching the only true motorcycle pump I could find new was an aftermarket one made for Harleys, but that was $500! I also found a source for Aprilla scooter pumps, but I believe those are meant for running a single direct injector, so, higher pressure and lower flow than I need.

Anyone have any tweaks for the stock alternator?

For the fuel economy, I don't know. Currently I'm getting about 40mpg, but there's a lot of tuning to do and the plugs show that I'm running rich through most of my range.

 

I'm heading out the door right now, but I think you can have the alternator rewound for more output. Anyone know anything about that? I'll have to look into it.

 

while searching for oem bits for my xj i stumbled across a few sites that sell upgraded windings for our bikes, might be worth your time to google and see what comes out of it.
once you have it all finalised i would be more than interested in knowing the performance gains and fuel economy you have achieved.
if you decide to go into production i think you will have a big selling item on your hands. trucker

 

SQL, I got to the XJChat page before I got here. Question answered! And way good on you! I would love to convert, not because the Hitachis are a problem for me (they arent) but in terms of efficiency and reduced maintenance.

 

What a fantastic piece of work you have done. I have thought about doing something like this for the longest time but I have so many other things to do I couldn't even begin to start it. It really would be nice to have an off the shelf solution but I think what you have done is way more fun and when I say fun I really mean frustrating.

How much $$$ do you think you're in to this project?

 

It's probably about $1000. If I were to do it again, though, it would be cheaper. That $1000 includes a fair number of junk yard parts I ended up not using and also some tools I wouldn't need to buy twice.

I still also need to spend another $225 on dyno tuning. This is another thing I could have done differently: I could have instead bought a wideband O2 sensor, for about the same money, and used it to autotune the bike.

Biggest expenditures are:

MicroSquirt ECU - $400

Fuel pump - $100 (for a do-over I'd probably pull a Hyundai pump from the yard for $20 or so)

Copper pipe, copper plate, and aluminum plate - $80

O2 sensor - $60

Fuel rail and injectors - $35 (another thing I'd do differently if I were to do this again; I'd instead try the fuel rail and injectors from a Suzuki Esteem - this looks to be a perfect fit, and the rail is much shorter than the Hyundai Accent one I used)

Coils - $25?

Oil temp sensor - $15

Throttle cable - $15

Throtte body with IAC - $10

--------------------------------------------------------

Add to that things like:

Timing light - $40

Fuel pressure gauge - $40

Two other throttle bodies I didn't use - $20

An extra fuel rail and injectors picked up for troubleshooting - $35

etc, etc, etc.....

---------------------------------------------------

 

it would be a long drive but I've got a dyno.

 

It won't increase your power output, but you might be able to decrease your load by converting your lighting to LED's... They're not drop-ins (you need a special circuit IIRC), but I'd bet you could increase your available amperage at least a little...

Oh, and yes, awesome work. I'd buy an EFI kit, that's for sure, but I in no way have the know-how or the tools to do it myself. Nice one!

 

Im watching this post very closely. Please dont keep any secrets from us, I would like to do a build like this myself.


Pictures, pictures, pictures, info, info, info. Give me more. LOL

 

Send me a pm with your address. I would love to come take a look. Where are you headed for the dyno? exhaust readers? I have a colortune plug if that will help. Would a mixture gauge that goes in line with the O-2 sensor work for rough tuning? I think they are about $40.00 to $60.00, I believe. That would give you real time mixture readings. here is a linklink

 

Very nicely done SQLguy. That is the coolest upgrade if seen so far.
I think you would do well to make it a kit and modify it for other bikes.

 

OK, I finally got my success story page done. Very rough layout, but lots (too much?) of information, lots of pictures, and, as requested, a video of start and rev.

Cheers,
Paul

http://residentialcolorado.com/SECA_750i.htm

 

Thanks. I was looking into LED lighting, but I couldn't see any clear information about whether there are any LED headlights. I would assume that I'd need to replace the headlight to really realize a useful savings. Any sources/kits you'd recommend?

Thanks,
Paul

 

Bravo, congratuations on your sucsess. I am going to read your page more closely and try this on mine.

 

Cool. Let me know if you have any questions. I also just updated the web page to include a couple of notes on this I would have done differently, and to add the Microsquirt configuration file (MSQ), that has the VE map, etc in it.

 

These are the kind of posts I look forward to. I am definately impressed. Thank you for sharing.

 

Love it! Great job man.

 

I actually did a similiar conversion using a Megasquirt II (predeccessor to the MicroSquirt) on a '65 Chevy Corvair. You're right about using the wideband sensor. The narrow band and dyno tuning are a bit troublesome. I started with the narrow band and had horrible luck with tuning and eventually bought the wideband. I ended up selling the car before installing the wideband though.

I love the simple single TB install you fabbed up. Excellent work, if you made a kit and included a wideband sensor with basic starter fuel and VE maps, I'd buy one. Well done!

 

The headlight coversion works best with the HID.
The two tail lights can be converted into LEDs
The instrument panel bulbs save a bit
Blinkers of course
License plate bulb

All ways to reduce draw.

 

Argghhh!!!

Wouldn't you know it... the bike was running pretty well, just a bit of cold start and accell fine-tuning to do... I go to lunch, pick a nice parking spot where I could drive straight out, and just as my iced tea arrives at the table a guy with a 5th wheel makes a U-turn in the parking lot, knocks over my bike and drags it under his camper!

I've got full coverage (State Farm) and I've got all his insurance info, but I still have bad feelings about what this whole process will be. The bike's actually damaged on both sides, between the impact to the asphalt and the dragging by the 5th wheel frame. Broken turn signals, foot pegs, tail light, bent handle bars and headlight, broken brake lever.....

And, add to that that the local Yamaha dealer won't even work on bikes more than five years old during the summer. I've got a smaller local shop picking it up. Hopefully they'll be able to help me out.

:x

 

You have got to be BSing us.... no way that could happen to you after all that fantastic work.

 

dude what did you do in your past life

i am sorry for your loss amd good luck on the rebuild

 

Sorry dude, that sucks. Hope you get up and running soon.

If you develop this and sell it, let me know.

Geoff

 

Sorry about your bike brother...That is a very nice settup...I'd buy one also!!! Keep us posted when u start selling a kit!

 

I hope I don't come across as an A$$hole when I ask this, but my questions is this " If the bike is too far gone, are you interested in selling what you have fabbed up or are you going back to drawing board to update and improve what a phenomenal feat you have accomplished so far?" Just curious?

 

Unbelievable!
I'm sorry your Project Bike was wrecked.
I can imagine how bad you feel ... because I know how bad I'd feel!

I think it's a conspiracy!
You had something good going and others way behind you needed your bike whacked.
We have to find-out who paid the 5th-wheel guy to roll over your bike.

This isn't something you are going to be able to do without some Professional assistance.
You need an Agent who knows all the ropes.

Maxwell Smart!
Get smart.
Send 99 over to my place!

 

missed it by THAT much

 

Dude, that sucks. At least you weren't on the bike.

 

Current status:

First the insurance company of the at-fault guy, Ameriprise, finally called me and told me that :

a) it's totaled (from their POV)
b) the fuel injection work and parts count for $0 with them
c) they found two SECA 750's on craigslist in my area, one for $1000 and one for $1600, so they'd offer me $1500 plus tax, tag, and title and they would keep my bike

I was online at the time, so I checked craigslist (while the rep was on the phone) and told her that I was only finding the one 750 for $1600 (which was one year older, had twice the milage, a dented tank, and who knows what else going on with it). There was a SECA 650 for $999. Her response was, "Well, the $1000 750 was there when we looked."

I refused their offer and started pursuing the matter through my insurance, State Farm.

I started with State Farm by emailling my local agent the accident report, the estimate, the details of all correspondence I'd had with Ameriprise, and the URL for the conversion project web site. I called her back to verify she had received it all.

A couple of days later, the State Farm adjuster called me and told me it was totaled. I asked her what impact the fuel injection project had on their evaluation... turns out she didn't have any of the documentation that I had sent to my local agent. Well, how could I get it to her? Fax. They aren't set up for such leading edge communications technology as email. So, my wife spent an hour and a half struggling to get the 27 pages she's printed out faxed to State Farm. They finally went through. I called back State Farm and they told me they had six pages, twice! None of the web site data came through! Fine, here's the URL, try it now and let me know that it works... it does? Good.

Last I heard from them was three days ago when they called me to tell me that they had passed on all the case information to an external company they deal with that handles customized and collectible vehicles. I am now waiting to hear the results of that.

 

I hope the guy is a Biker!
That would cut a lot of ice.

Good luck, man.
You deserve to be compensated.

I'm sendin' a cubble uh duh boyz aroune tuh say hi to the jamoke who run-ova da bike!

Badda-bing ... badda-boom!

 

Awesome. Good Job on all the fab work!

 

damn
insurance companies suck. They dont like to pay out.
How much if you keep the bike (so you can get your E.F.I. parts and part out the rest? I dont mean you have to tell us the actual $, but would it be worth keeping the bike for that?

I am just getting back to this thread, and now have your web page open to read.

With all the bikes on the road now, you'd like to think cagers would be a little observant!

good luck!

Steve

 

Best of luck; hope your insurance case works out to some kind of benefit for you.

Also hope you´ll keep up your faboulus EFI work; whether as DIY or progressing into a sellable kit it´s bound to get full attention.

Thumbs up, man.

 

OK. After two months and settling for a number of aftermarket parts, I finally got my bike back mostly repaired.

I then fixed the self-cancelling circuit for the turn signals to work with the new LED's and installed a new fuel rail I had built while waiting for the bike to be repaired. I also swapped in a second set of injectors that I had sent out to Cruzin Performance to have rebuilt and flow tested.



The bike now has a MAC 4-1, since that's the only replacement exhaust I could find. It's not bad, though. Will take some getting used to the sound and the extra volume...



Here you can see how the new fuel rail tucks up under the tank, so there's nothing sticking out to the sides anymore. I'm very happy with how this came out.



The bike's running well, though a bit rich. Next step is back on the dyno to retune for the injectors and MAC exhaust.

Cheers,
Paul

 

What, if any, flasher did you use? Do you have the part number and where you purchased it?

 

whats size copper pipe did you use for the intake manifold?

 

Project details (not yet including the new work) are here: http://residentialcolorado.com/SECA_750i.htm

IIRC, I used 1 1/4 inch pipe fittings for the manifold.

Flasher information is on the "Converting to LED's" thread, pages 8 and 9: http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... t=105.html

Cheers,
Paul