Good news and Bad

As some of you have figured out from previous posts, I'm new to motorcycles and a real novice when it comes to any kind of maintenance. I would be lost without the advice I get to read here.

The good new I spoke of is that the mechanic at the shop I took the bike to in order to get that broken bolt out said that I have a great bike that he doesn't understand why they quit making.

The bad news is that they did an inspection and we are looking at $1100+ in parts and labor.

Cam Chain Tensioner
Steering Stem Bearings
Fork Seals
Clean the Carbs (partial plugged pilots)
Handlebars (bent)

My question to you all is what, if anything, should I attempt to do myself knowing that I do not have many tools, just the basics. I want to be able to maintain my own bike but I also don't want to mess it up so bad it is beyond fixing and turns into a parts bike.

(I did buy the service manual so I have a guide of sorts)

Thanks,
Maria

 

Well - first I'd have them break down the costs for the various jobs, so you can weigh if it's worth it to you or not.

I would be questioning that Cam Chain Tensioner quote - there's very little to go wrong with ours as they're manual, and you can't really check it unless you take apart the engine (or at least the valve covers and check the cam chain tension). I'd suspect that's an attempt to pad the bill, frankly.

Steering bearings I can understand - taking into account your abilities/tools, you'll probably want them to do that.

Fork seals - you can do it yourself, but again it comes down to what they'll charge for it, versus your cost to make the fork holding tool and buy a seal puller and the new ones. It's not a hard job though.

Bent bars - this one you could do yourself pretty easily - just takes time. Hell you could probably have them straighten them too. Again - cost?

And the biggie - carbs. I have yet to see a shop do them right. I would love to trust shop mechanics - I really really would. But everytime I see someone having just spent $300 getting the carbs "cleaned & tuned" they're still messed up.
To be honest, you could do this yourself with a set of screwdrivers, a can of Seafoam, and a source of compressed air. Oh - an a lot of patience and time - slow and careful has never hurt anyone.

I don't suppose the Chicago/Milwaukee/Madison riders could hook up for a carb clinic? ;-)

 

The steering bearings are $208 and the fork seals are $223 but if I have them do both at the same time I save $50 in labor. So, from what you said I am thinking this is something I am going to have them do.

The handlebars (didn't even notice they were bent) will cost about 125

The Cam tensioner will cost 212, but, if like you said, there is no way to know this with a simple inspection...??? Could it be picked up with a computer?

The carbs are quoted at 338 and since, like I said, I want to learn this stuff, I think that I will start by doing the carbs on my boyfriends kawasaki 440ltd, then if that works I'll do my own bike! lol I don't want to practice on mine and his doesn't even run right now so........

I am actually thinking I can learn alot of things by messing with the 440, it's not like I can mess things up too badly on a bike that doesn't run anyhow.

Thanks!
Maria

 

I bought a set of fork seals for $19, and the fork holding tool is a spark plug socket turned upside down on an extension, so that's cheap enough to learn to do. Cam chain tension is manually adjusted, it could probably be readjusted and fall within spec. Many people have cleaned and tuned their own carbs here, so it's doable at home, probably better than a "mechanic" can do in a shop. Right now I have a set of bicycle handlebars on my Seca, work alright, Chacal offered me a set of OEM bars for about $70, or bikebandit.com has aftermarkets for around $25 and they are very easy to change. I've never replaced the steering head bearings, so I don't know how difficult they are, but anything is possible with a little patience and a good set of tools...

 

You are paying Yamaha Prices for those Bearings when you can geet them a lot cheaper at a Bearing Supply Store.

I know you don't have the tools and experience to tackle the job yourself, but IF you have the BOOK and you find a Automotive Technology Student at an area Trade School ... you could save a bundle getting the Bearings ans Seals done.

As within the Bike community in your area if there is a good guy they'd recommend to do the job for some extra cash instead of paying the shop rate.

 

For reference (off the top of my head when I bought these same parts about 5 years ago):

Steering bearings - about $45 for parts
Fork Seals - about $20.00 for parts (not including fork oil)
New bars - about $30-$60 NEW!
Cam tensioner - I'd get at scrapyard - probably $30.00

Carbs - as Altus said, some tools and cleaners and you're good to go.

Fixing this yourself with help from the forum....priceless!

 

I'm with Altus - hard to imagine what could go wrong with a cam chain tensioner. Yours is not manual though, the 82 has an automatic tensioner. It's basically a spring and ratchet.

You can outfit yourself with all the tools for a few hundred dollars. Parts would be a couple hundred more. So basically, you could do the work yourself for 50 cents on the dollar and have the tools left over for the next job.

You can also do some of the work yourself and have the shop do the rest. The carburetors can be done with a set of screwdrivers, a can of carburetor cleaner and a piece of wire.

**EDIT** Recommendation to procure service manual removed because if I could read I would have seen that the lady already has one! D'OH.

 

I'll back the crowd up on this effort Maria. All of these things you have facing you can be done by the novice with a little coaching and lots of pictures. If you have the time (and you wisely bought the book already, GOOD ON YOU!), you can do all of the things mentioned in a weekend or two if you take your time. If you need the bike straight away, try doing one job at a time or take it to the shop. If you can afford the down time, I would really encourage you to try it yourself, that way you can gain the experience and speed with which to tackle other "expensive" jobs the shop would like you to pay them to do. I could whip out the whole of it in a day but I'm skilled and knowledgable, something you could be too. I'd like to hear that you have the desire to wrench on it yourself and join an elite group of motorcycle enthusists who believe in self reliance (and saving money too)!

 

Definitely do the carbs yourself.
That's the most laborious part, hence the high cost, but it involves almost no real tool supply. All you need is a few standard Phillips and flathead screwdrivers, lots of patience, and a spare weekend. Plus, This site has step by step guides, and all the advice you could ever need.
I knew absolutely nothing about carbs or bikes when i cleaned mine, and i learned a ton in the process, plus i feel a lot more comfortable now that i know what is going on with my bike, and how to adjust the main things that make her purr...its like getting to know your lover

 

I would probably get a second opinion from another repair shop. I picked up a 1982 seca that had been sitting for 10 years and the only problem that I had that overlaps yours is the varnish and gum in the carbs. This being the first work Ive done on motorcycles It seemed overwhelming at first but with the right tools, guidance and moral support, wrenching on my own bike has been so much fun. I started out a newbie and with these guys behind me you can see what I'm tackling now by clicking on the link below. You can see my post towards the top of the page

This mornings post with pictures

 

I'll agree here too. Do as much of the work yourself as you can.

As for Altus's comment about Chicago/Milwaukee/Madison riders coming to the rescue, I would be more than willing to drive up and give a hand. I don't have much in specialized tools or experience but another set of hands can't hurt. I've done my own carbs with pretty decent success from the guides here and I'm sure a couple of other people in the area could get most of those problems hammered out in a day. I'd say a nice Saturday of work and you could be on the road by Sunday with the right help.

If anyone with a bit of experience on this wants to jump in and give the lady a hand, PM me with a set of possible dates/times and I'll let you know my schedule.

 

I am an idiot and I do almost all the work on my bike myself. The key is to get manuals, cd's etc and get familiar with the procedures before sitting in the garage with greasy fingers trying to figure out what went wrong. Once you have done a job yourself, you will do it really quick next time, and you will also be able to post your experiences on this site for newbs that need your expert help!

Hang in there, believe in yourself!

 

About most of the things, I cannot comment, as I have never touched them. The carbs, however, I can speak to.

Somewhere here there is a really good diagram of the carbs with labels for all the channels and jets.

The one specialized thing you will need is an extremely fine set of drill bits, someone here can give you the sizes, Chacal has them. You will actually use these by hand to clear the jets and nozzles to make certain they are the correct size. This is something you can't do with just wire/air/and cleaner.

You will want a compressor and a nozzle with a rubber tip that you can press to/into the various holes to blow air through them, along with a couple of cans of brake cleaner (a bit more effective than carb cleaner).

Also very useful, a small sheet of 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper. You will roll this into a very small "stick" that will fit into the float jet to clean the opening the needle goes into. I believe this will also be very effective for polishing the slides as well as the tubes they fit in. Make certain the slides move freely as they must bounce up and down for things to work right.

Use the drill bits to verify all jets / holes are the correct size and clear. Then, spray them out with the brake cleaner/carb cleaner to clean most of the particulate matter. Then use the air from the compressor to fully blast all the passages clear. Most likely, one or more of the enrichment circuits will be blocked and these bits are the only was to clean them out.

Use a wire brush and or the 400 grit sand paper to polish the needles, being careful not to damage the rubber tip. It is crucial that you do not get the solvents on the rubber tip of the float needle and the rubber of the diaphrams on the sliders. The sliders will cost you about $80 each if you damage the rubber (you could buy a used set of carbs for that price and have 3 spares ... ).

I just learned a trick to setting the float levels without any special tools and without having to assemble, put in gas, measure, adjust, repeat.

With the bowls off, look at the level of the floats. The flat of the float needs to be exactly level with the carb body.

Michael

 

I wouldn't recommend 400 Grit.

I'd say use 800 (minimum) ... less material removal and scratching to deal with.
If you are going to refinish the Inside Diameters of the Float Valves to restore their performance and prevent Sticking Floats ...

1000 or 1200 ... rolled tight enough to fit snuggly in the Float Valve.
Rotate both Clockwise and counter-clockwise.

Use wire cutters to snip-off the end inserted into the Valve body to give you a new area on the sanding paper for each Float.

 

Maria,

I'd take the bike somewhere else for a second opinion. That list of problems sounds suspect to me. Also they want to charge you too much for parts.

How well does the bike run now? Does it idle okay? Do the fork seals leak?

If you don't notice that the handlebars are bent, they probably aren't.

I get the impression this shop is out to take advantage of you and make an easy $1100.

 

I'd PM chacal and see how many of these parts he has. His prices are fair and MUCH lower than Yamaha's.

 

You'll find a lot of Bike shops dont want to work on older bikes,so they charge for every little thing they can and if you say yes well then its work at gold card prices.
The jobs you listed are reasonably simple step by step following the manuals.
The only one I haven't done is the camchain tensioner and as was said in another post how do they know it's no good?
Just do it step by step one job at a time,if you start getting frazzled just walk away until you come back in the right frame of mind amazing how a fresh perspective can make something seem so much simpler.
You cant look at the manual too many times before you start or too many times after you've started,your not getting paid by the hour so what the hell.
Be organized! as you go try to lay things out in the order they came apart in.Nothing worse than coming back to a dogs breakfast of parts and bolts spread out in no order at all.Doesn't hurt to take pictures before and during [gotta love digital cameras]
Search on here for the jobs your looking at doing,lots of good info available by people who are genuinely interested in helping.
Sometimes you can do 95%of the job but you'll need to take the part to the shop for one particular piece of the job because you dont have the tool or tools{Separating the forks can be like this]So most reasonable shops will do the 10 minutes of labour and charge a token fee,the best way to thank them is to remember when you want accessories who treated you right.
Give it a go it's one of the most satisfying things you will ever do.
Glenn

 

Another tool that comes in very handy for cleaning carbs is a torch cleaning tool. Basically a set of very fine abrasive wires that are designed to clean crud but not change the size of any orifices. You can get them at any larger hardware store

 

You guys are great! I will keep you all updated as the work progresses and try to take plenty of pictures while I'm at it so if something does go wrong........!
I may even get a start on it this weekend although I have a few other things to do too.

 

Ive posted about this before, but I think it illustrates what shops think of older bikes (now this happened at a local Yamaha shop).

I went in to price carb cleaning/sync....when they found out which bike I had, I stood there for 25 minutes listening to a litany of how much it would cost to do this and that to such an old bike.

The final nail in this particular coffin came when one of the 'techs' came out and the guy that was rattling on asked him what it would cost. When told what year the bike was the tech asked, 'What kind of carbs does it have, cause I dont think they made Hitachi's that long ago...it'll probably cost about $400 and no guarantee.'



I did buy a nice set of Cortech gloves from the sales lady in the other part of the store.