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I need some peoples opinions on pods filters

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by yukon1015, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. yukon1015

    yukon1015 Member

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    ok so i have a 1982 seca 650. i've had it for about a year and got it running. and this past week i have taken the bike down to the frame to repaint but i have a really big question. I just ordered a set of pods for my bike and was wondering what size jets to put in it. If some one could please tell me what size jets they put in theres, that would be great.
     
  2. chadwickm

    chadwickm Member

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    I went two sizes bigger when I changed to pods. I have an XJ1100 so I'm not sure what size you have, but it should be stamped on your existing jets. I got mine from:

    motorcyclecarbs.com
     
  3. acergremlin

    acergremlin Member

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    I would search the site as there is quite a bit on this subject, and from what i have read i dont believe its worth the effort, but have a read and then decide.
     
  4. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    1982 XJ650RJ Seca stock jetting:

    Main FUEL jets: #110
    Main AIR jets: # 50

    Pilot FUEL jets: #40
    Pilot AIR jets: #195


    b]WHAT ABOUT RE-JETTING FOR PODS, ETC?:[/b]

    It's a question we get asked often and unfortunately, one that we cannot answer honestly about your specific bike besides with "it depends".

    Which is a nice way of saying "you're about to enter the seventh circle of hell......."!

    Carb jet tuning required by aftermarket modifications is somewhat of a black art, part science, part skill, part luck. It depends on the current state of tube of your engine, your altitude, the mix of aftermarket parts on your bike, etc........alot of variables.

    The best advice we can offer is: Just Say No. Don't do it! Leave eberything stock!

    But, since most people---with good reason, I might add---don't always listen to our well-intentioned advice, then the next best recommendation we can offer is: "if you want more power get a bigger bike!".

    And that doesn't cut it with many riders, either, so for the remaining stalwarts out there who insist on "experimenting" with aftermarket intake and exhaust systems, here's the best information that we've come across to give you some GUIDANCE, which you should take as just that, and not as ANSWERS, because it isn't!

    We wish you luck with your endeavors!

    ******************************************************

    Hi xyz!.....we've never used pods on any of our bikes, they just seem like way too much trouble to me! BUT, here is the "standard" re-jetting recommendations from people who fool around with them....although, please be aware that every situation is different, and you should expect to go through some amount of trial and error (and frustration!) before you get it as close to right as is possible.

    By the way, the most important part of the information below is in the section titled "PRECAUTIONS"!:

    So here is the info regarding jetting that you might find helpful:


    MAIN FUEL JET SIZE CHANGES NEEDED PER TYPICAL MODIFICATION:


    Exhaust Changes:

    +2 main fuel jet size for custom 4-into-2 exhaust

    +4 main fuel jet sizes for 4-into-1 exhaust

    +4 main jet sizes for no muffler (open headers)


    Intake Changes:

    +2 main fuel jet sizes for single K&N filter (inside a stock airbox)

    +2 main fuel jet size for drilling holes in the airbox

    +4 main fuel jet sizes for individual pod filters (no airbox)


    Additional changes:

    - Add up all the main fuel jet size increases and subtract 2 sizes.

    - Decrease main fuel jet size by 2 per every 2000' above sea level.

    - Under a mis-match condition, such as when using pod filters with a 100% stock exhaust, or 4-into-1 header with stock filter and air box, then subtract 2 main fuel jet sizes.


    PILOT FUEL JET SIZES CHANGES NEEDED PER TYPICAL MODIFICATION:

    Pilot fuel jet size changes are related only to the change in main fuel jet sizes according to the main fuel jet size formula described above. Note that this pilot fuel jet rule is for the main fuel jet size change BEFORE any main fuel jet altitude compensation is factored in:

    Increase the pilot fuel jet size +1 for every +3 main fuel jet size increases.

    Additional changes:

    - Decrease pilot fuel jet size by 1 for every 6000' above sea level.



    PRECAUTIONS:

    - Make sure your carbs are in perfect working order before making jet changes....meaning fully cleaned internally and rebuilt.

    - Check plug color often and adjust as needed, 2 main fuel jet sizes at a time and 1 pilot fuel jet size at a time. Bright white plug insulators are a sign of an overly lean fuel mixture condition and WILL cause damage to your engine over time, up to and including engine seizure!

    - Synch the carbs after each jet change.

    - Make sure the floats are set correctly

    - Seriously consider purchasing a Colortune Plug Tuning kit.

    - You may find it necessary to make changes to the size or shimming of the main jet needle. There are no guidelines on what or how to do these changes, this is true trial-and-error tuning!




    EXAMPLE:

    Stock Carb Settings:
    #120 Main Fuel Jet
    #40 Pilot Fuel Jet
    Y-13 Needle

    MAIN FUEL JET SIZE CALCULATIONS:

    Changes made:

    Exhaust:
    4 into 1 with Supertrapp = +4 Sizes Main Fuel Jet

    Intake:
    K&N Pod Filters = +4 sizes Main Fuel Jet
    ----------------------------
    Equals: +8 main fuel jet sizes baseline
    Subtract: -2 main fuel jet size per formula above
    ----------------------------
    Equals: +6 main fuel jet sizes due to modifications, thus:

    Stock main fuel jet size is: #120
    + 6 additional sizes
    = a #126 main fuel jet size
    ---------------------------
    Subtract: -2 main fuel jet sizes for Altitude of 2500' Average

    = #126 calculated from above
    -2 jet sizes for altitude adjustment

    = a #124 main fuel jet size.


    PILOT FUEL JET SIZE CALCULATIONS:

    The formula is: +1 pilot jet size increase for every +3 main jet sizes increased.

    Stock pilot fuel jet size is: #40
    + 2 additional jet sizes (since we went up +6 main fuel jet sizes before the altitude compensation was factored in)

    = a #42 pilot fuel jet size.

    Note that no altitude compensation is needed on the pilot fuel jet since our elevation is less than 6000' asl.


    ------------------------------

    RESULT:

    A #124 Main and #42 Pilot is A GOOD STARTING POINT.

    ******************************************************


    For further insights and understanding, the Holy Grail for performance carb tuning information can be found here:

    www.factorypro.com
     
  5. yukon1015

    yukon1015 Member

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    thanks guys, if i cant get it right after a couple tries i'll just keep it stock
     
  6. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Bear in mind.
    The Bike was not designed to run on Pods.
    The Bike was designed to run on the shared Cubic Feet per Minute of Intake Air entering the Inlet of the Airbox.

    When you abandon the stock configuration eliminating the airbox for Pods; you alter the CFM Ratio and eliminate the function of the Airbox Boots that act as Velocity Stacks.

    You suddenly upset the Intake Flow.
    Make the Mixture Leaner requiring rejetting
    Lose some performance because the Main AIR Jetting cannot feed the Emulsion Tube with enough Air to draw-up the additional Fuel needed to overcome the Lean condition.

    You can Clean and Clean-tune the Carbs to make that bike run GREAT with the Airbox and Boots in the Stock configuration.
    It takes a couple of hours after getting the Carbs ready to be Fine-tuned.

    I don't know the formula for rejetting the Carbs for Pods.
    The simple truth is: There is NO Formula!

    There is Trial and Error.
    There is Compromise in performance issues someplace.

    There isn't as much fun trying to tune for Pods as there is getting the Bike right on-the-money the way it comes ... stock!
     
  7. chopper667

    chopper667 New Member

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    Hi Folks,
    My XJ550 has pods on it and I need to change it back to the stock airbox, because a) it runs rough at idle through to 2000 revs and b) it rains a lot in London, and c) I don't want to muck about with jetting and the like after reading through these posts!
    But where do I get the original airbox? Here in UK there is much reluctance to admitting to having one for sale...
    Any advice would be real useful.
    Cheers!
     
  8. Pacocase

    Pacocase Member

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    After experimenting a lot, I found that 112 mains and everything else stock worked great on my Seca with pods and clip-ons.
     
  9. kevineleven

    kevineleven Member

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    The next time I have my carbs pulled, I'm gonna take a picture of the STOCK jets in there, with my pod filters and open exhaust. And maybe a video of how GREAT it runs. Maybe a shot of the plugs too, to confirm it's not running super lean.

    Or maybe I'll just keep my mouth shut and enjoy my bike.
     
  10. Pacocase

    Pacocase Member

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    Heh, point taken, Kevineleven. I say enjoy your bike for sure, and all input is appreciated around here, right? I actually made another post a little while ago where I said I regretted jetting altogether and wish I'd have just left it alone. But, once someone's got the bug to mess with it, I think they're going to, whether they're advised not to or not. I did. :)
     
  11. yukon1015

    yukon1015 Member

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    ok well the reason im putting pods on is because the airbox boots going to the carbs are getting hard and dont fit the carbs right. but i have everything else stock. Now the pics i put up are old and i just tore my bike down to repaint the frame. its a sweet looking silver with a metalic black tank and side covers, i repainted the rims and the engine the Gloss black, i'm about to put it all back together either tomorrow or the next day. But the whole reason i was asking was because in the early 1980's most Japaneese bikes had to be leaned out to meet ammision standards in the US, so they droped the main jets form 112 to 110. now if i am getting any of this wrong please correct me but wouldn't my bike run better if i jumped back up to the 112's?
     
  12. acergremlin

    acergremlin Member

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    If the airbox boots are the main reason for using pods just get new airbox boots. I had same problem and got a set from main dealer at around £3 each, guess that would be around $6 US. Those airbox rubbers shrink by a massive amount over time.
     
  13. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    And here they are!:


    RUBBER AIR CLEANER BOX-TO-CARB BOOTS & RELATED:


    af3) OEM and reproduction Air Cleaner Box-to-Carb Rubber Joint or "Boot", both original and reproduction individual boots and complete sets are offered to allow you to replace cracked, dry-rotted, vacuum-leaking (making carb tuning impossible......) or missing originals. These are the boots that run from the air cleaner box to the rear of the carbs!


    HCP559 Air Cleaner Box-to-Carb Rubber Boot, for all XJ650 (except Turbo) models, each:
    $ 11.50

    HCP559SET4 Air Cleaner Box-to-Carb Rubber Boots, set of 4:
    $ 44.00



    af4) OEM air cleaner-to-carb boot Metal Clamping Ring, includes the cinching screw. These are used on the carb end of the boot only.

    HCP565 OEM air cleaner boot Metal Clamping Ring, for all XJ550, XJ650 (except Turbo), XJ700 non-X, and XJ750 models, each:
    $ 11.00
     
  14. unaverageman

    unaverageman Member

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    Looks like a nightmare to me, best of luck to you. I have to admit this site has the best people to offer advice though so you are in the best of hands.
     
  15. yukon1015

    yukon1015 Member

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    WEll thats good to know. Im not that bad with them, i got my bike for free and it didn't run and looked like crap and i got it running by myself and have been working on it peace by peace since. so ya, im trying to get the title for it right now but its almost there.
     
  16. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    There is the distinct possibility that they still do fit ... but, you have their order wrong.

    If you take a close look at them ... two are for the center carbs and two are for the outboard carbs.

    Line them up with their locating tabs all in the same direction and see if you can discern which belong where.

    Many times, people will try to connect an inboard boot to an outboard carb and get the misalignment not allowing the clamps to hold.
     
  17. turtlejoint

    turtlejoint Member

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    for some of us, stock is not a real option without alot of dough. pods are a cheap alternative when your bike is already without airbox.(like mine was) so i have pods and would like to rejet for them. i guess the simple question is whos running pods with what jet mods and what do you like your setup?
     
  18. acergremlin

    acergremlin Member

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    There is no inboard or outboard on the 650 they are all the same, cant speak for the 750 or 900 though.
     
  19. TIMEtoRIDE

    TIMEtoRIDE Active Member

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    A goofball PO of my '81 Seca 750 podded it, and jetted DOWN ! to 118 !
    It has a 4 into 1, and I'm at "sea level". It starts, runs, and cruises well, but is flat on power at higher revs and larger throttle angles (think passing a semi at 70). It should have 122 - 124 ' s.
    I will be returning to a stock airbox. And 120 jets.
     
  20. weoxstan

    weoxstan Member

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    chopper667

    I PM'ed you about the airbox.
     

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