First Timer on the carbs.. NEED HELP! ;-)

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

Ok all - been reading, reading, and reading some more... Got the carbs apart - and am tearing them down and cleaning them up.. Man, these carbs were NASTY! Everything gunked, rusted, stuck, rusted, rotted (all the o-rings etc..), stuck, dirty... did i say stuck?

For reference, I am following Ricks "Old School' cleaning guide, and schmuckaholics how to carb breakdown.

So i ran into a few problems - need some advice.....

Problem #1 - one of the screws on a butterfly value is stripped (was stripped when I got to it)...... how do i get it out!?? (micro-micro extractors?)


Problem #2 - Cannot get the main jet nozzle out of one of the carbs.. I've soaked it in pbblaster and rubber mallet-ed it.... but won't budge... Got it soaking overnight now... any other suggestions?

Problem #3 - 2 of my diaphragm assembles seem messed up - 1 more then the other.. The top locking plastic piece is broken on both - on one, it was broken so bad it came off... and i can't get it back on...... .. ... HELP! ;-) (pictures attached)

I got things soaking now to clean out all the gunk, clean the enrichment well, make sure the emulsion tube is all good and clean etc......

took a bit of elbow grease - had to use a screw extractor on a few of the jets (they were the wrong jets anyways, and already stripped).... Having some issues with the float bowls (had to extract all screws, some screwed up - etc..etc... working on those though.....

Any other suggestions/tips welcome - but I got a whole binder of tips that I gathered from these forums, so I should be 'ok' for the rest ;-)

 

G'day mate havent tried this one myself yet but will be doing so soon, i read somewhere that if you grab a litre or two of lemon juice get it to boiling point & drop the carbs into it it ungunks everything. Obviously i would remove as much plastic, brass etc that you would think may perish before doing so, hey if it does not work at least you can drink the juice in you cup of tea.
Regards Bones.

 

#1 will have to drilled out & re- tapped, same size if you are real smart, or a size up.
#3 rubber diaphrams & sliders will have to replaced $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
good luck.

 

Bones:

I did the lemon juice trick on the float bowls - worked great.

Also, based on another recommendation - I took the carb bodies (once I had them stripped) and let them soak in a water/pine-sol mixture (hot water) for a few hours.. Cleaned up REAL nice (and smelled good ;-) )

josh

 

welp, heres my plan of attack...

Watching EBAY and a post in the sell forum here for a new rack of carbs, so i can scavenge for parts (need some body pieces anyways, 2 carbs with broken float posts).....

Going to sears in the next day or so for MICRO extractors to try to get that screw out (cheaper then a tap/die kit). I already have replacement screws.

Anyone have any tips for #2?? (getting the main nozzle out?)

Also, is there any point in removing the AIR jets? - or just spray down them good?

 

#1 look at the back of the screw, some say their peened so they can't come loose, may have to dremmel the back a bit
or a hand impact driver with a tiny bit, it will turn the screw head if the rest of the screw comes with it your golden You have to backup the shaft with a wood dowel rod so it's sturdy for the impact driver to work, try some heat, the o-rings are already shot
main jet nozzle aka emulsion tube, flat solid surface , aluminum rod on tube light smack with a steel hammer should do it

 

Status Update:

#1 - after soaking overnight, and a few taps on the back of the screw - it actually came out.

#2 The Main nozzle; i got it out.. but upon further inspection it looks like the end where the fuel jet goes into is stripped (the jet practically fell out when i disassembled it, was all chewed up....

#3 - trollin ebay ;-)

The carb that the main nozzle was stuck also has a stripped pilot screw and a broken float post - so I will just be looking for a new carb body on ebay, watching a couple.

Thanks for the help all ;-)

 

instead of ebay you should probably look for a parts bike on craigslist
probably get a whole bike between 100 and 300 and never search for parts again

 

Ya, am trolling local craigslist's too - don't wanna wait too long though ;-P

 

At this juncture, given the severity of your situation, I would recommend, as others have already, that you secure a set of "Parts Carbs" off eBay.

The Parts Carbs are likely to have all good Diaphragm Pistons (if you're lucky!)

Then, with the Parts Carbs in-hand ... you will hopefully have enough Carbs Parts between the two sets to build yourself one good set of Carbs.

Treat yourself to a complete set of stainless steel fasteners for the whole rack of Carbs.
Swap-out bodies as needed to repair the broken float hinge pillars.
Use what will hopefully be a good set of Sliders.

It's the easiest way to rescue yourself from being up sheet creek and wind-up with a set of Cleaned and Overhauled Carbs that will be able to run the bike and be fine-tuned!

Good luck
'Tis the Season
There's likely to be others interested in Parts Carbs too!

 

Ya, thats the plan.. 2 of the 4 carbs i have are good (2 and 4) so I am working on rebuilding them right now and working on a few other things (bike needs a LOT of work).

Quick question: what is a good (safe) way of removing and old...melted on.. some would say fused.... gasket from the carb body?? its reallly on there - around the jets, float post etc.. so i can't hit it to good with sandpaper (although I am trying)... any thoughts?

 

Nail Polish Remover.
A scraping tool.
Heat a piece of metal rod. Bend a 90-degree end. Quench it. Grind a scraping end. Work on it slowly!

 

Ok - will do, that I can fabricate... ;-)

Just won an ebay auction for a set of carbs.. so fingers crossed that it has enough parts ;-P

and just ready your post on tips on putting the gaskets in and stuff.. and I happen to have some RTV sealant ;-)

will let you all know ;-)

 

Ok - really cleaning these puppies, sandpaper, smoothing, etc..etc.. ;-)

is there any need or anything to remove the AIR JETS from inside of the carb?? or just leave them as they are?? (not sure, never really seen anything on here about cleaning, setting, tuning, etc..)

 

You don't have to remove the AIR Jets.

You can shoot Carb Cleaner right through them and use a Syringe full of Carb Clean to Flush them back through the pulled Pilot Jet and a pulled Emulsion Tube.

Watch the Carb Cleaner come out the bottom.
If its discolored ... Flush them again.

 

good deal ;-) one less thing to worry about stripping ;-)

 

what about the choke plunger? any good reason to take that off and clean under it? (i'm being meticulous i know.. but i want to do a thorough and complete job the first time so I can get her running and start riding ;-) )

 

There is so much info here for when I finally tackle my own carbs I am almost in heaven.

My question is does anyone have any experience on cleaning a set of Keihin carbs off of a kawasaki 440 ltd? Are they similar enough to follow the how-tos on here with a few mods of some info I found on line?

 

Ok all - got my set of carbs in from EBAY and started to strip them down. I take back everything I said about my carbs being dirty - these were so bad they made mine look clean!

Ok, so 2 questions..

1) how clean is clean enough in regards to removal of the old gasket?? take a gander at the picture I attached - is that clean enough? or does it have to shine?

2) not a deal breaker on my carbs as i have good needles, however I always like to have spare parts.. In the set of carbs I got from ebay - they diaphragm assembles were so stuck with sludge that the needles were pulled out of their housing (even before I did anything).... can these be fixed?? or their a lost cause and just get rid of them (all 4 of them are like this... luckly the 4 from my set of carbs are good and I can use those still)

Thanks for the help - hopefully can get everything back together this weekend.. the only other main problem I am having is cleaning out that damn hole in the float bowl - 2 of 4 are clean, the other two are giving me trouble... that and the fact that I broke off a screw extractor in a stripped drain screw.

 

yamahamama: sorry - i'm a newbie myself - i know nothing about those carbs ;-(

 

Looks pretty good.
That little bit of crud left on the Fuel Gallery might dissolve and clog a Pilot Jet.

If you have them all looking like that ... you'll be OK.

 

Umm...... dumb question - whats the fuel gallery? ;-)

 

The passage that fuel passes along to reach all the Float Valve Openings to Fill the Fuel Bowls.

 

what about those needles?? they salvageable?

 

Needles?

Yes. Stick it together the way it goes. Its a "Press-Fit"

Measure the length of all four needles and make sure that they are all the same.

 

good deal! thanks for the info!

 

Ok - got all my parts cleaned, everything looking pretty. Clunk test good, emulsion tubes cleaned, all tiny holes and jets working. Now just to put back together and synch them (got a stack of print outs from this site to walk me through ;-) )

So, in going through these, I see my manifold boots are 'shot' (i.e., cracked completely through).. So I bought some new (used) ones , whcih have small surface cracks on them (nothing major).. I went and covered them with liquid electrical tape just to be safe... and I started to remove my manifold cap screws... 2 out of 8 came out ;-(.. the others i didn't play with 'too' much; I sprayed them down with SeaFoam Deep Creep, about 2x a day for the past few days (haven't had time to work on it anyways).

So, I've been reading up on these infamous bolts and the problems they cause - and a lot of 'here is the best way to do it' type of suggestions..... What is the best out of the bad ways of getting these bolts off if they aren't loosened up yet?? I don't have any hex sockets bits of this size - I can go get some if needed, if using them with a sharp impact is the best way (I believe that's what Rick recommends ;-) ).... any other methods that have been tried and worked?? (I don't care about the boots that are on there, as they are shot, so I was even considering cutting them off and then just dousing the exposed threads of the screws with the SeaFoam..

What I have suck, so they gotta come off... thoughts?

thanks!

josh

 

deleted this post - i figured out my own answer ;-)

Still looking for advice on the question above though ;-)

 

If the Manifolds are shot and you are going to replace them ... I'd cut-off the Head of the Cap Screws and slide the old Manifolds off.

Now, you'll be able to apply HEAT to the remainder of the Cap Screw.
I'd heat it and shoot penetrating oil right at where they go into the Head.

That ought to do the trick.
If you don't have a small Pipe Wrench ... now would be a good time!

 

I do have small pipe wrench ;-)

So actually just slice off the heads then? (using a... dremel? or something fancier?)

Heat - I have a handheld butane torch (the type that doubles as a soldering gun, heat gun etc..) that give enough heat?

How much for how long? (or is that a 'until it starts to turn' type question) should I try a bit, rest a bit, then try a bit more after everything cools back down?

Whats better for penetrating oil?? the SeaFoam Deep Creep or PBBLASTER (for this application at least).

Lots of questions, cause I don't feel like taking it apart to bring to a machine shop if I screw it up ;-)

thanks for the advice!

josh

 

Heat it until it gets red.
Shoot the penetrant at where it's threaded into the Head.

(Be careful. Some penetrants will flare-up and burn. Alternatively, you can use Vegetable Oil or Soldering Flux. Something that will run-in under capillary action)

DON"T try to remove the Stud while it's hot.
It's soft metal to begin with ... cool it with a wet shop rag.

Once cooled ... use the wench and prepare to extract it.
Get a good bite on it close to the Head.
Apply some initial firm undoing torque
Hold the firm torque on the tool.

Smartly strike the handle of the tool with a hammer handle
See if the fastener moves or "Breaks-free" as the tool is struck.

Also try applying heat to the Head surrounding the fastener and cooling the fastener.
Then follow the same procedure to move the stuck fastener with some impact.

 

ok - will try that and let you know.. for safety i will probably use the solder flux

crossing my fingers ;-)

 

Gulp.....

So much for fingers crossed... ;-(

1 came out on its own...... 2 came out with the method suggested.... FIVE (5) broke either when I was cutting the head off, or when I clamped onto the stud after heating and cooling and started to extract it... Honestly from the looks of it; I think some of the screws were broken before and 'glued' back into place - gotta love PO'S!!

Oh well .... that sucks... lol

So, I am assuming screw extractors are out of the question? and a machine shop is the way to go??

So...what I would need now - is how do I disassemble this thing to get it to the machine shop?! Any how-to's??? And since I am taking this part of the bike apart - should I check/clean/test/replace/clean/adjust/check/clean anything ?? (if so, any how-to's??, ;-) )

Its all good, wasn't expecting this pig to get on the road this year - but its a bummer, cause I was still hoping. At least I can get the carbs put back together and bench sync'd; and the myriad of other fixes (fuse block, brakes, etc...) while I figure this mess out ;-)

Any (and all) help appreciated!!

 

Crap!
Well, ... if you are going to take the Head off, you should either get a Valve Job or have the Valves "Lapped"
Lapped is a method of refinishing the Gas Tight Seal between the Valve and Seat.

If you have the Valved done or relapped ... have the Valve Stem Seals (Valve Seals) replaced with new ones.

Cheap Parts. Great insurance.

If you know the Compression was good; while the Head is out for Drilling and such ... De-carbon the tops of the Piston Crowns.
Easily done.
Crank the Pistons to the Top of the Bore and either scrape or electric wire brush the carbon deposits off the Crown until you are down to bare aluminum.

Since you aren't in a rush ... you can also do some Porting and Polishing.
Sand the Piston Crowns with finishing papers until you have a Polished Surface on the Piston Crown.

Any Machine Shop worth their salt will return the Head to you with the Combustion Chambers all done.

 

machine shop = a friend ;-) so I would assume nothing would come back clean.

No idea on compression - never had her running ;-( was hoping to try to get her started this weekend, but thats shot ;-P What should I do if we assume the compession isn't good?

I saw the recent 'how to' on lapping valves - what the hell, maybe I will tackle them myself...!

Any pics or 'step by step' guides around to do what you recommend? (outside of the hayes manual, and the service manual - I have both).

Any other 'parts' you can recommend? (valve seals, check ;-) ) gonna place an order with Chacal soon for some manifold boot gaskets and replacement bolts - so might as well get my moneys worth ;-P

Thanks for the assist. The way I figure it, by the time I get her started - she will be a brand new bike! at least on the inside.

LOL, i went from barely knowing what a carb is to fully tearing down and rebuilding my carbs, working on my clutch - and now to working on my engine. Gotta love the internet ;-P

Such is life


josh

 

while we are on the subject of carbs, when I clean mine, sometime soon I hope, what is the setting for the idle screw? Rick-Co-Matic I read your how to's but I did not see what the setting or how to do this, did I miss a step?

When trying to bench synch them should I use the idle screw to adjust the #3 carb for the "business card" or "paperclip" than go about setting the other carbs to this one?

Any help is welcome. This site is awsome to the tenth power.

 

once bike is running idle is to be set @ ~1050 rpm. #3 has no adjustment except for the idle screw