after market coils, cables, caps, plugs

Hi all,

I'm about to buy an '85 Maxim-X 750 this weekend. The bike has sat for about 3 years and now has ignition troubles since being in the rain with the For Sale sign on it. The owner claims that only the plug caps need replacing. After reading a lot on the forums, I'm thinking it may just be best to replace the whole shebang (it rains a lot in Vancouver!). My questions are in regards to getting an aftermarket setup that all works together. Here's what I'm thinking of;

Dyna DC1-1 Coils
Dyna DW600 plug wires (graphite core)
NGK BPR7EIX plugs (w/ resistor)

OK, now some questions....

1- Have I chosen wisely in regards to matching this stuff up?
2- I see some people go with NGK caps. Since the Dyna wires come with non-resistor caps, do I still need separate caps?
3 - Are the angled caps better for installation ease (DW1100)?
4 - The spiel for the wires notes that they come in 2's, but that you cut them in half to and use the included extra caps to make your 4 wires. Is their enough wire to do this, or do you need to buy 2 sets of 2?
5 - Any other advice while I'm at it?

TIA, this forum rocks.

Corey

 

I'm not sure but I think if your plugs are resistor type you should go with non resistor caps.
But I'd wait on someone more knowlegeable in this area than I.
Good luck I hope to do mine next year maybe.
Let us know how it goes.

 

I am doing the same thing right now, and I am trying to figure out the same thing! I have already bought the DC1-1 coils. These have been used by many people who are satisfied.
On the graphite wires - I don't know what the advantage of having these on this bike would be unless you are worried about radio interference? I am not even sure if this is a problem though; I have never heard of a problem in this area.
I believe the graphite wires increase resistance, so it would give you less of a spark (granted, probably almost negligible, but hey, every bit counts). It would give you less of a spark because the resistance would cause power to be lost through heat.

Another X owner has been helping me out on this. I think I am going to go with the stock caps if they test okay - which means stick with the recommended spark plugs - which also means - copper core wire. I am looking for the accel brand, which I can get for $20 on the internet. These come in black, which match my bike.
The reason I am going with stock caps is because they easily screw in to the new wires (copper, I don't know about graphite), and getting aftermarket caps to fit into the head is hard. I don't believe it can be done without mods. I may be wrong about this. If I am wrong - then let me know. I have seen caps on cars break down and spark to the head, so I would like to avoid this eventual problem!

BTW - most of this info comes from Gary Schulte - so thanks Gary!

 

Something else Gary told me - he had his cap to wire connection corrode within a week when he didn't use dielectric grease on the connection. So - be sure to use the grease.

 

The rest I know are more what you're concerned more about ... but I hate NGK plugs ...
The last 3 years or so ... I have had nothing but disaster after disaster with them ...
My virago eats NGK's ... one a month. Went to champions and never had a problem, till one broke ... yea dumbass me hit it with a plug wrench ... then not finding them at the store, I went to AC delco ... black plugs ... man I hated them cos I couldn't read it too well ... but it has worked like a charm.
Same with GS500's ... in fact one particular GS I bought and sold and he sold to someone else ... all 3 of us tried NGK's ... those clowns tried it after I told them not to ... and it always crapped out ...
The savage of my lawn guy, the XS 650 I sold last year ... the other GS (my 49K miler) I sold ... all of them ran 1000 times better with Champions or Ac delco or autolites.
I am sure there are more ... but by default ... I run champions ... and if a bike has NGK's in it ... and gives me trouble the first thing I do is toss them in favor of champions or Autolites or ac delcos.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

So, what's the Champ or Delco equiv of the BP7ES I need? I tried getting some Delcos a few months ago, and the guys at Car Quest coudln't cross-refrence from the NGK # for me.

I only ask because I THINK my plugs are OK, but trying something differnt might just fix my low idela annoyances.

 

Champion-- N7YC
Delco won't cross

 

I thought champion was RA6HC ... maybe mistaken ... but hey that's what is in the Max X and it rips.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

The N7YC is the cross for the NGK BP7ES, thats whats in my 650.
Not sure what plug the X uses.

 

Oh OK BP7ES is the virago and XS 650's plug ... I believe R42XLS - AC Delco, 63 - autolite, and N7YC champion ... yes ... The fat ass plug ...
Max X has much smaller ones, very similar to my vulcan 750's.
The airmax ... no idea ...
Cool.
Srinath.

 

That is interesting. This is the first reason I have heard of someone not using NGKs for any reason other than price. I thought everyone thought NGKs are higher quality.

 

So to sum it up;

* DC1-1 coils
* Champion plugs (resistor plugs, p/n that works in Maxim-X 750 still tba)
* Copper Wire (I still like Dynatek, DW200 is p/n for copper wires)

Are the caps that come with the Dyna wire kits OK, or do you still need to fool around with a separate set?

Thanks guys,

Corey

 

NGK Iridiums are excellent - the only thing better is the Denso's
BP7ES = Denso Iridium IW22

 

Are the Dyna caps resistor type? If so - then you need to go with non-resister plugs. Do they fit the bike so that liquids won't run into the spark plug holes?

 

Scratch that. Apparantly, the resistor plugs go with resistor caps. Sounds good.

 

Iridium didn't do squat on my 535, but that bike may have had its good share of problems anyway.
But not with the GS or max, or virago 1100 though. They are sound as they can be.
I quit spending like $8 on the damn thing.
Denso ... no idea.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

Where did you find wires that came with caps? I believe the caps you are looking at are for the coil end, not the plug end.

I just talked to a guy that sells these wires, and it looks like you are probably not going to be able to buy caps that fit snugly in the head.

On that note, NGK does sell spark plug caps that are resistor type, but I haven't been able to find out how much resistance. I have also seen a picture of a guy who used these caps, and was able to cut up the old caps to get the rubber boot to seal. So, it is possible. But, I am not sure how well it worked.

If you never drive in the rain, go for it. If you do, please let me know how this comes out!

You could always wait and buy the caps later.

 

Just to prove myself a hypocrite, I just ordered the Dyna wires and NGK resistor caps from Z1.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/default.aspx

The caps were so cheap, I figured I could keep them in reserve even if I didn't use them. They claim to seal out the weather. When I get them, I will test the resistance so that we will know for sure.

I bought the wires and caps for a total of $40 including shipping.

 

Richard03,

Check this out: http://z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=209

They show the Dyna wires coming included with "plug caps, rubber boots, and connectors." Am I missing something?

So wouldn't I be OK with the DC1-1 coils, a set of the above wires / caps, and some NGK iridium plugs? I've read that the non-resistor wires (as above) work better with resistor plugs.

I'm bringing up NGK BPR7EIX as the plug for the Maxim-X bike.

Corey

 

#'s 1 and 4 plug caps should have 5.0k ohms.
#'s 2 and 3 caps should have 10.0k ohms.
Plus the wire resistance, then you add resistor plugs on top of that.
I just don't think your gaining anything. Just adding more resistance.
Here's a link you can check out.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Spee ... ectbl.html

 

Those are not resistor caps, they look like snap (projection) type electrical connections with rubber boots! Also - they look like connectors with the snap/projection type plugs, not the threaded type.

I have never heard of that plug, DR8EIX is what I come up with for iridium. D8EA is the regular plug. Both of these are the screw type top.

Are those plugs the same as the above, just projection type?

I ordered:

caps: MC312-1325 - straight NGK resistor caps for 12mm plugs, 7mm wire. $4 each
wire: DW200 - 7mm copper core. $16

 

Richard03

BPR7EIX is the iridium version of the BP7ES that other people have referred to. It looks like this will work. I think I may finally have a shopping list. I think I'll go with the caps and wires that you point out, the NGK BPR7EIX plugs, the DC1-1 coils and hope they all fit together.

Corey

 

I don't know where BP7ES is coming from... Is that a 14mm plug? Is the 7 a different heat range? We have 12mm plugs, and I don't know why changing the heat range would be good...

 

Sorry, I forgot to mention that my manual (1985 XJ700X) specifies D8EA.

 

Alright. I just pulled my caps and plugs...

Caps for cylinder 1 and 2 read 8K resistance on both. No difference between inside and outside cylinders.

Resistance for spark plugs (D8EA) is 0 Ohms - no resistance.

So - my conclusion is that resistance plugs don't add resistance? Does this make sense?

This was bothering me! I just had to do it... :lol:

At least when I get the new caps, I will have a baseline!

I am thinking I will go ahead and get the iridium plugs too...

 

Richard03

Yes, BP7 / BRP7 are 14mm plugs. I couldn't tell you how much difference the heat range between a 7 an 8 would make. Not much?

In regards to resistance, what I've gathered (which could be totally wrong) is that you want non resistant caps if you have resistant plugs, and vice versa. This would seem to fall in line with your observations. I understand that on a newer bike this may not be true, but others on the forum here have reported poor experiences using resistant caps with resistant plugs.

I'm going to have to rip it all apart also. I've a sneaking suspicion that I'll have to perform surgery to make the Dyan wires mate with the NGK caps.

Corey

 

Yes D8EA is what I yanked out ... water cooled Kawi plug, have like a 100 lying about, vulcan, eliminator, 454 all use it ...
The RA6HC whatever champion is a direct fit.
Now hotter plug - does not mean hotter spark, or anyhting related to electrical anyhting.
It runs at a higher temperature, and it will burn off more carbon deposits due to that fact. If your plug is too hot in temperature, it will cause detonation - You want to run the coldest plug you can without fouling.
D8EA if it works (I hate it but) run it. Do not run a D7EA where a D8 will work - lower is hotter for NGK in the number. Trailing numbers I dunno ... like a DPR8EA-9. Hotter is DPR7EA-9.
I dont know how champion numbers their hotter ones ...
BTW a NGK BP6ES and a BP7ES will both translate to the same 63 autolite and R42XLS whatever champion. Dont even know how that is possible.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

Corey, if you have a Maxim X - then you need a 12mm plug. I think the 750 and the 700 (what I have) have the same top head.

You are right! The D8EA is a non-resistor plug. Well, what do you know. I was wrong. Wasn't the first time! I thought that it was.

That is why I reported earlier that it had no resistance, I was confused.

I hope that the NGK caps have the same screw that the OEM caps have. So, they should hopefully just screw right in.

 

The D8EA should not have resistance as it is not a resister plug.

 

Hey guys - of note is that Iridium plugs (AFAIK) are all resistor plugs - usually 5K ohms. And last I knew our bikes worked just fine with around 10K at each plug, so if using Iridium plugs DON'T use 10K resistor caps for the middle cylinders - use 5's.

Oh - and on my bike, I use 5K caps on all four and non-resistor plugs (BP7ES) and it's always been fine.

 

richard03,

You are correct, I do need a 12mm plug. Thanks for that. I called a local Yamaha, and they cross-ref'd DR8ES (resistor version of D8EA) for the Maxim-X.

After kicking it around for a bit I decided to take the plunge for the iridium plugs, so I went DR8EIX with the SD05F caps. Reviews on the iridium plugs are mixed at best, but I found them online for $8 ea CAD... so what the hell?

I also bought a set of Dyna DW200 copper wires to go with the DC1-1 coils that I have in the mail.

Currently I have none of the parts in my hands, so I eagerly await putting it all in. I just bought the bike last night and it runs like crap! haha. I hope I didn't buy a lemon. It sure looks cool anyway.

I'll post some pics and findings for you guys once I get it all installed.

Cheers,

Corey

 

Um, I'm confused. I've understood that there is approximately 5-10K ohms resistance in our OEM ignition wire/cap/plug combination. The graphite core wire is approximately 5Kohms/ft, and the resistor plug is 5K. I would not think it is necessary to add the resistor caps also. On the other hand, I talked with a custom builder and he commented that the DynaTek coils put out so much spark that the resistor caps shouldn't effect the spark. The graphite core wires are already RFI suppressed, and a resistor plug performs the same task, so the resistor cap is overkill. I've heard that the angled caps (130 degree)? work very well. I've used the NGK Iridium plugs for three years now and haven't had a problem.

YMMV

 

Oh, one more thing. For those of you who are using graphite core wire and non-resistor caps, cut all 4 wires to the same length so that all 4 circuits will have the same resistance.

 

singingotter,

Thanks for the tip about the graphite-core wires. That's exactly why I went with coppper wires. (DW200 are just copper). I've read the the graphite core wires are more trouble than they're worth.

The iridium plugs are all 5K, and the NGK caps are all 5K, so I hope it's going to work OK.

I've seen some people play with the caps to remove the resistance, but I'm not sure I'll need to do that. Earlier in the thread, jdrich48 says 5K for 1,4 and 10K for 2-3. I'm not sure if that's critical, or 10K across the board is well enough.

Unfortunately the caps aren't easily available in non-resistance from NGK and the same for the iridium plugs. So if you use both, you're at 10K.

Corey

 

10k on all cylinders works just fine, and is in fact the reccomended combination by Yamaha from about 1984 on. Many with our earlier bike have done this too with no ill effects.

Basically, if you keep the ignition resistance on each cylinder between 5-10k you've got no issues. Especially with the aftermarket coils....

 

jdrich48 is correct. I had seen this mentioned before in another thread, so I went home and measured the resistance on my caps. Sure enough, even with copper wires there was a difference between the inner & outer caps. I can only equate this to a difference between the coil windings 1. since the OEM wires are integral with the OEM coil, 2. the copper core wires have virtually no resistance, but the caps have different resistance - must be a difference in the coil windindgs.

Anyhow, the aftermarket coils are balanced, so the wires/caps/plugs must be balanced. I don't think there is that much too it beyond that.

I'd be interested to learn how they de-resistored their caps. I'm looking for custom caps now (even with aftermarket enhancements, I like it to look OEM).

Later,

Michael

 

been reading thruogh the thread and having a couple of questions.

If I buy the Dyna Coils (and not the Dyna spark plug wires - as I have a fairly new set of wires, Ngk 5 ohm plug caps and non-resistor plugs) - are the small connectors for putting on the coil end of the spark plug wire included?

Or do I have to buy a set of Dyna wires?

 

From some of the photos I have seen - yes, they are included. Some of the sparkplug wire companies even include a crimper for the coil-end connnectors- it's basically disposable.

 

Ok, thanks singingotter

also been to my local auto/mc partsstore today and asked him about connectors (looks like it may be a fairly standard thing (some of the auto ignitionwires had some similar looking connectors)) and according to him it wouln´t be a problem.

 

My Accel kit included the crimp tool for my wires. I expect Dana would offer it if it were not already included in the kit for a nominal fee. Note: the Accel crimpers were just a set of jaws that needed to be held in a bench vise so be prepared if you haven't one!

 

Hi gals and guys , i bin reading this series and whilst interesting there seems a matter [which is trivial] that really has not bin mentioned.

The matter is why there is resisence wire and caps ect , and i can guarentee its nothing to do with performance , it started off back in da old days as tv/radio interference , with the old coils and points systems , hence the name "suppression".

Now days its supression AND compatabilty as tci's or most genuine transistor ignitions need a limit on what is dumped through the spark plug [the instantanious current] to protect the trannys themselves as they are designed that way and that is all .Try ohms law on da calculator.

there are standard tci's that can handle that so called overload with ease but then as mentioned in the link its still a supression issue for general city use after all.

http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm

This dude above wrote this well

It would have taken me ages to try to explain that [i saw the instigation of suppression] and made it come out right and not to sound like a smart arsey techno dude who trying to tell ones different as to the idea of it now..

So the link there , as it really was common knowledge on why for those in the go.

Really a compatability and supression issue ..
cheers.

 

Hi All,

Thanks for the great information. I anxiously await my parts to arrive in the mail. I'll let you know how the coil, wire, cap, plug replacement goes.

Corey

 

What HooNz is talking about is RFI Radio Frequency Interference.

 

Hey guys,

I finally got my parts in the mail and it looks like it's going to work out fine. I will install on the weekend and let you know how it works.

One thing that I noticed that sucks is that Dyna wires come with a nice lug that fits the top of the plug so you can slip it on and off no problem - if you were going to the plug directly. NGK caps, on the other hand, have a needle at the top made for butt-ending onto a snipped wire.

The Dyna lug won't fit on top of the needle at the top of the NGK cap. So I either need a different lug, or I have to snip of the nice tension fit connectors from the Dyna wires and go bare wire to the NGK cap. This isn't a huge deal I suppose, but I was looking forward to having everything nice and reversible if it didn't work out.

Anyone got a better idea to get the Dyna wires to play nice with the NGK caps?

Corey

 

The NGK caps work the same as the original caps. They both screw into the wire. So, it would be reversible in that you could always take the NGK off and put the original spark caps on. Or you could use the original wires and the NGK caps.

 

I am leaning towards the Sumax 8mm Pro wires (DS-242358) since they have the 135 degree non-resistor caps already on them. They are $24.95/pr, so $50 + shipping for the 4 I'll need. Here is the link to copy & paste for the specs: http://street.parts-unlimited.com/6/1239/2532621

You may be able to find them cheaper. I haven't looked that in depth yet.

 

Re: Sumax wires, they seem pretty nice... but I've already got what I've got, haha.

Here's another possibly silly question. In regards to the dielectric grease, do you want to use it at all three connection points? (between top of plug and cap, between top of cap and wire, between coil and wire)

Also, on my Maxim-X, there are orange rubber boots that attach to the bottom of sparkplug caps so they fit nice and snug in the crank case. When I pulled out the existing caps, I noticed that these boots were all greasy, but kind of sticky greasy. Any idea what substance this would be? It's probably going to be a bear putting them back in now that it's worn off when I transfered them to the NGK caps.

Corey

P.S. Richard03, did you ever finish putting your DC1-1's in with your new caps and wires?

 

That is what I was starting to do last night. I cut the caps off of both ends of the Dyna wires and put the NGK caps on one side, and the wire crimp to the coils on the other side.

I haven't taken the old coils off yet, so I haven't taken the orange part off of the old caps yet.

 

Well, I ordered the Sumax wires and the DynaTek DC1-1 Coils. today. Now I have to patiently wait through the weekend for the parts to arrive. I already have the NGK Iridium plugs.

 

Okay, I put my Dyna coils, wires, and NGK caps on today. Everything worked okay. I don't think the bike is any faster though. I took it around the block, and it is still eyelid peeling, but not any more than it was!

Oh well. It is good peace of mind to have new coils.

Maybe this will help my idling. It did seem to idle better. Hopefully I can dial in my idle mixture now and be done with toying!