1982 Seca XJ650RJ

After some remorse over the sale of my 82 Seca RJC (15U), I have brought home another Seca. Belonged to Jimmytime...thanks, James.

The bike has a 5V2 frame, a 5N9 engine and alot of spare parts. It is a U.S. bike brought into Canada in 91. The engine swapped, from a Maxim, in late 90's.

It's a bit of a puzzle factory...will see how the teardown goes.

Some pics...

 

Part of the puzzle is because:

The 650rj was a non-YICS engine; the replacement engine is a YICS engine.

The 650rj had a mechanical tach; the replacement engine came from a bike with electrical tach.

the gauge cluster currently on Your bike is from the 650 Maxim; the 650rj Cluster is different

 

TJ - I'm so happy to see my beloved Seca end up in your hands! This was my second bike, but my first "real" one. We had many adventures together - including riding from Toronto to the Cabot trail and back. I spent hours and hours (and days and days) working on her (usually the carbs) and learned a lot amount motorcycles during the process. I had hoped to someday have the time and space to rebuild her, and while that didn't work out for me, I'm happy that you will be able to.

I apologize in advance for any weirdness and hackiness that you find! Most of the time I spent working on the Seca a) I was poor and b) my workshop was a parking spot in the street. There was fair amount of "improvisation".

I can't wait to see what you do with her and feel free to contact me if you have any questions or need some backstory on anything strange you encounter.

Regarding hogfiddles post - you are correct! 3 weeks before a planned trip to ride the Dragon's Tail the head gasket completely failed. The rings/pistons clearances were so far gone it made more sense to buy a maxim and swap it's engine into the Seca. I moved the gauges along with it so the the odometer would match the engine. Still haven't taken that trip to the Dragon's Tail, but will one day I'm sure!

 

Thanks hofiddles, this I understand. It came with the Seca cluster, the km/h is on the outside part of the gauge...but 5V2? Maybe the cluster was changed previously? It should be in mph on the outside of the gauge...me thinks.

Then there is the TCI and coils. Currently aftermarket coils and Seca TCI box. It also came with the Maxim coils and TCI box. will have to research the differences.

The carburetion is again a bit of a puzzle....came with 2 complete sets, plus a 3rd set. 4 into 1 pipes with k&n filter...will have to confirm jetting etc. Best to use Seca carbs or Maxim carbs...dunno, more research.

 

The carb bodies are the same.... jetting is the difference.
Read ‘secret life of carburetors’ to find the jet set you want/need

 

There is no reason to apologize! I'll be doing a fair share of "improvising" myself.

The workshop parking spot in the street comment reminds me of something very strange that happened to me years ago. I was working on a project in Australia. I was there for about a year, 28 days on and 7 off. On one of my "holidays", I was walking the streets of Brisbane when I came across a guy working on a bike in the street. He had borrowed a friends bike and it just quit...turned out to be a loose battery terminal. Anyway, I recognized him from the project...he was Canadian as well and lived in Windsor. I lived in Windsor as a child and didn't remember much other than the address. When I told him the address his face went blank...turns out he lives in the house that I grew up in as a child! OMG.

I'm sure I'll have questions for you. Thanks!

When you get to the dragon...don't forget to check out the tree.

BTW...hats off to you for keeping the extra Maxim parts. Starter, coils, tci, harness etc.

 

*New to this site just today.
Can Hogfiddles help me with my carbs to a 1980 Yamaha xj650. My fuel tube seals are leaking. I assume that’s where the fuel is coming from. It’s the part of the carburetor where the fuel supply line goes to the carb. Thanks

 

Check your inbox

 

Some more pics...
electric part of the puzzle starting to unravel.

Dyna coils DC 1's primary resistance 3.6/3.6ohms (factory spec 2.9-3.2), secondary 14,300/14,050 ohms (factory spec 13,5-14,5)

TCI boxes (TID 14-02, TID 14-08) both for non-yics engines, same timing curves minus sidestand switch on TID 14-02.

Pick-up coil (5G2) 640/650 ohms (specs for non-yics 560-840, yics 520-780)

If I understand correctly,
1. the pickup coils, although not correct for either TCI box, will still work as they fall into spec for both engine types (non-yics and yics)
2. using the TID 14-08 TCI box , I can match the timing curve with the #195 pilot air jet (seems the only carb difference on a 650 non-yics and yics engines). This would cure idle and off idle stumbles often found when using a non-yics TCI box with a YICS engine.
3. the dyna coils primary resistance is a little over spec, wouldn't think it would cause an issue with the TCI box.

Gents,
Please, let me know your thoughts.
Thanks.

 

Have a line on a TCI box for a YICS engine. TID14-06.

Maybe that a better route...dunno.

Some thoughts please...

 

Hmmm, I thought I would get a couple responses...oh well.
I've gone with a YICS TCI box, made more sense...less troubleshooting questions.
Anyway some more pics...

 

remove nipple from petcock there is a little cleaning to do there and a small disc.

to repair horns you would have to drill out the rivets thats where the action is . 2 wire ends a set of contacts and a post making the motion.

whats the thing your grabing with vice grips?

 

Did the vacuum nipple, but I don't recall a small disc.

The horns both work, but same tone. Same part number on both...only difference I see are the labels on the arms (high tone/low tone). I adjusted the small bolt/nut on the backside, thinking it controls the tone.

Vise grips...bar end for mirrors. Rusted for sure. pics

 

Used this guide for petcock https://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/rebuilding-the-yamaha-vacuum-fuel-valve-w-pics.25058/

and this guide for gas cap...that "retaining latch for lock pin" was a bugger (lots of acetone/ATF needed on mine) http://www.xj4ever.com/gas cap.pdf

Both excellent guides.

 

Brake disassembly pics.
Forgot to push out pistons before disassembly...good thing I had a grease gun.
Right side leaking at caliper/piston...deep gouge on piston. Can't imagine that will buff out.
Master needs rebuild...who woulda thought plastic sight glasses were a good idea.
Couldn't find date code on lines...replacing anyway.

 

Gas tank cleaning. Alot of info and different procedures out there. This is what worked for me...
I did the vinegar soak followed by baking soda/distilled water rinse. Rinsed again with distilled water until it came out clear. It was followed by an acetone rinse and then a mixture of oil/gas to coat the tank for long term storage. Worked well...lots of rust particles and gallons of red water. I did not get the flash rust this time...tried previously but got flash rust within minutes. The difference this time was the acetone and coating with oil/gas quickly. Going to try the electrolysis method on the other tank.

Figured out why it would start in gear...clutch switch pic attached.

 

Real AC Cobra or replica?

 

How the heck did you know...then I looked at the pics. Your powers of observation are very good my friend.
Replica.

 

I saw it to but I was too jealous to say anything.
The real deal are over a million bucks now.

 

I notice you didn’t answer the question

 

True story: circa 1976 or so, there was little (very small, about the size of a gas station of that era) "classic car" showroom with about, oh, 5 cars in it and on the "lot". Out of curiosity I stopped by there one day to look around, kick the tires, chew the fat, window shop, etc.......talking to the owner, he said they had just taken in another car on consignment, perhaps I would be interested in it, sure I said.....so we go into the "back" and there's an original 427 Cobra (not sure of the year, but it had the fat fenders, the knock-off wheels, and the original Goodyear (?) "blue dot" tires). Not restored, but obviously in really good shape. Well, how much? "We'd have to get $9,000 for it". Me: "Oh God, that's insane, blah-blah-blah........".

Was not the first time I was really stupid, and certainly hasn't been the last.

Many years later, a friend had a professionally-built replica version, 427 side-oiler, 5-speed tranny, all the bells and whistles, took me for a ride, never been so scared in my life (I was stuck being the passenger). After about 50 yards of tire spin, the thing just squats down, hooks up, and then the real accelleration starts....

 

Actually, it sticks out like a sore thumb!

 

Crazy right? I'd be afraid to take it on the road! Last one I seen at Mecum didn't meet the reserve. 1,150,000 (289 car).

Last word in my reply.
People ask me all the time...I always laugh and tell them. Shelby was always asked how many were made and his reply was...we built about 1,000 of them and there's still over 50,000 on the road today!...he had the best quotes.

That's one hell of a story! Not to rub any salt in but.....9k in 1976 is about 42k ish today...that would probably be the budget on a kit now. I had a similar experience with my brothers buddy in the 80's. He was looking to sell his superbird. I didn't know what it was at the time. I did know it was friggin ugly and thought I can't be seen in this thing.

It's not too late though, Shelby American has been remaking Cobras in Las Vegas for many years (with CSX numbers). You buy the engine from Shelby California separately. It has a strange title tho...due to the regulations for new production cars. Cost was 250k about 5 years ago.

This one is absolutely a blast to drive...just a big go-cart. It's quite a bit tamer than the one you were in. Stroked 302...makes good power from 3000 to 6000 and is streetable.

 

More disassembly pics.

Solenoid, tail light, ignition.

Only a couple frozen nuts on the exhaust studs. Soaked the studs/nuts in aft/acetone for a couple days....came apart without issue. After cleaning the exhaust it looks like I will end up wrapping them again.

Tested relays and diodes. I used the service manual and these guides,
https://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/how-to-test-a-relay.6809/
https://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/the-ultimate-relay-switch-sensor-and-diodes-guide.27543/
Everything worked out fine other than the self cancelers. I couldn't find info on how to test bench test them. I'm not planning to use them, but I'd like to test them anyway. If anyone can point me in the right direction...greatly appreciate it.

 

Getting there,
Removed wiring harness and added a wire from the coil to the headlight bucket through the factory sheathing. Added connector in bucket for electric tachometer. That's it for the wiring...I think.
Removed carbs and joints (boots). All of the boots are in good shape...have 4 extra boots that came with the bike...all non-yics or for cylinders #3 or #4.
Found an odd bolt in head. Circled in red, pic #4...not sure what that's about. Any ideas?
Rear wheel and left shock removed without issue.
Finished de-rusting the exhaust. I can't tell who the manufacturer is by looking at it. MAC? Supertrapp? Any help is appreciated.

 

My parents bought their first house on '78...for $14,000.

 

odd bolt is a common thing .it is typicly a aluminim plug but sometimes a bolt . i have a few in my bikes. there is an oil gally behind the bolt the machinist bored through that hole to make it. could be a factory fix or dealership fix as it is common. could also be someone put an oil pressure guage in it at one time. but with the amount of bikes that have the bolt I doubt thats what happened.

 

The oil gallery had to be bored clean through in order to make sure no swarf remained in the passage. I've seen pics of factory-new bikes that use both press-fit plugs and bolts to seal the passage. The reasoning behind why has been lost, but could be the desire to add another gauge later in the run (more features = more sales theory), or to do with the supply laws requiring Japanese manufacturers to use a certain percentage of parts form other Japanese manufacturers.

 

You are going back a bit now k-moe I was an apprentice then.

 

Makes sense...thanks gents.

 

Pics,

Picked up another set of gauges...thanks Simmy. From the 2 sets of Seca gauges I have, I managed to put together a descent set. Dunno if I'm going to use the Maxim or Seca set...or get an aftermarket all-in-one gauge, just yet. Good to have options.

Rear brake pads and the drum are in good shape...replacing pads regardless. Been sitting for 9+ years.

Shocks are in descent shape...Emgo's, I think. I may reuse them. Would prefer black coils though. Could someone please point me in the right direction for black coil springs?

Final drive came out ok, but i was expecting the driveshaft to come out with it. Had to tie a rope to get it out...looks like it's been leaking for a while.

 

I know that Progressive makes black coils for all of the XJ models.

 

if you do a cluster swap from seca to maxim there is only 1 indicator in the maxim cluster for turn signals you will have to do a little wiring change.

maxim grounds back through unused blinker bulb on the indicator and seca goes directly to ground after indicator bulb

 

Thank you sir!

BTW...clicked on City of Seven Hills, google maps took me to Rome.

 

It's a nickname (one of the lesser known ones) for the U.S. city that I'm surrounded by.

 

Cheers.
I changed the flasher to a 2 prong electronic unit. Both gauge sets worked using the electronic flasher when I tested them (engine off) dunno if anything changes with the engine running? I understand that I will loose the self-cancelling feature, unless I use the write-up in the DIY section, but that does not bother me.

I like the look of the Seca gauges better, but I found that you must pry the ring open to change the faces. The Maxim gauges come apart much easier...screws.

 

you are correct.... you do have to pry the ring. That said, it’s the exact same procedure ( I’ve done it for some other 650rj and Special gauges, so I can attest) that I have documented for the 700 and related ( ‘85/86 700, 750, X, 1984+ viragos, Vmax, etc....) on xj4ever.com ...... here’s a link directly to the article.

http://www.xj4ever.com/repairing your 700 gauges.pdf

Dave Fox

 

Nice write up...thanks for posting.

I did a change to the gauge face on a kawi drifter some time ago. I remember the speedo/fuel needles being a PIA...used a fork to pry them up.

 

Yes, And if you are not careful, the whole shaft might pull out… Then you’re screwed

 

Removed swingarm yesterday...left side bearing was in bad shape. Surprisingly, after a little cleanup. the races look good...smooth, no indentations. Replacing bearings, but will probably leave the races.

Forks came out after a little acetone/atf...they are in poor shape. Pitted...I think they will probable leak. Top bearing in the neck was in poor shape. Again I found the races in good condition. The bottom steering stop has some damage.

Both fork clamp bolts were stretched. Interesting tidbit...Yamaha part number for the bolts is 97017-08060-00. Part numbers are divided into 3 sections. The second section (pertaining to bolts) 08060 is the size M8 and length 60mm.

 

Any pitting in the swept-area of the seals can be fixed and not leak.

1. Use wet-and-dry paper starting with 600 grit and gradually moving up to 2500 grit to remove the shallow pits. Be sure to work around the whole circumfrence of the fork. You won't be removing enough material to cause any problems with the seals, but it needs to be removed evenly to avoid making flat spots.

2. Any remaining deep pits should be degreased and filled with a 2-part epoxy, then sanded smooth (as above) once cured.

Permanent, but slightly ugly repair.

 

And add fork gaiters if you want to cover up the repair.

 

I have a line on a pair...if that doesn't work out, I'll do just as you suggested. thanks!

Another great idea...cheers.

 

Picked up an extra set of forks, thanks Simmy. The upper tubes are in much better shape, no need for gaiters. I've managed to disassemble 3 forks using a bolt and a couple of 3/4" nuts cinched together and long extension. A little heat was applied to the bottom bolt. However, I cannot seem to separate one of them. The top fork plug is stuck. I noticed that the plug sits well below the circlip...perhaps it was pounded down previously...dunno. I've tried several cycles of heat and cold with some light tapping on the tube with a rubber mallet. I've compressed the fork with a ratchet strap and tried to remove the bottom bolt...didn't break free, just spun. Turned it upside down and struck it against a 2x4...many times. It's compressed and has been soaking in acetone/atf for many weeks. I think the tube has beaten me! I was hoping to save the fork lower as I have 3 others to choose from, but I think I will have to cut it open and pound the fork plug out from the inside.

 

Separating the engine from the frame was straight forward. After reading some different ways to do it, I decided to lay it down on the right side and lift the frame off the engine. Worked great! I removed the engine mounts on the right side and drained the oil. I had to remove the oil filter adapter as it obstructed a couple of the engine mount bolts. Layed it down on the right side, removed the left side engine mount bolts and lifted the frame off. No need to remove the driveshaft u-joint.
Last items to remove from the frame were the centre/side stands. Used some washers so I didn't have to struggle with the springs.

 

Stuck fork cap removed!
After weeks of lubing, compressing, pounding etc...I ended up drilling and taping the plug. I used an impact gun to pull it out. It was wedged in there so tight that I broke the first bolt (1/4"). Worked the second time with a larger bolt (7/16"). Pics attached.

 

You deserve some type of prize for this effort!

 

On to the engine.
A few seals and gaskets need replacing. The good news...no oil in the stator cover nor pickup coil cover.

 

Oil level sender checked...0 ohms upside down, infinite upright.
Checked generator. Across all whites wires 0.8 ohms. At green/brown wires 12.1 ohms. At slip rings 4.8 ohms. The brushes are down to the wear bar..10mm ish. Will replace the brushes and cleanup the slip rings...maybe 1500 grit or I've read on here, an eraser. Hopefully that brings things in spec.

 

Set valve clearances using the valve shim tool...works slick. Used this guide...
https://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/airhead-valve-adjustment-with-pics.14827/

3 of 4 exhaust valves out of spec. .013, .015, .018, .013, a little on the tight side, as expected.
2 of 4 intake valves out of spec. .036, .018, .015, .015, not as expected. .036 was measured several times. Went back to my compression test numbers. #1 was the lowest, but well within spec. Has me scratching my head...

I went ahead and removed and recorded all the shims...good advise from the guide.

The inside of the valve cover needs some cleaning...

Looked in the YICS tube...it was fairly clean. Cleaned it out anyway.