82 xj650 ran great, now wont fire.Help!

Hello all. First time poster here. LOVE this forum and can usually find what I need from others' posts. But im lost and my my bike has been down for a month. Please help.
I got this bike cheap a couple years ago because it needed carb work and the guy didnt want to tackle the job. Its an 82 xj650. Got it home and rebuilt the carbs and its been an awesome bike for me. Im a 'figure it out as I go' kinda girl and most of my knowledge of mechanics has come by taking stuff apart when something quits working....so my knowledge of technichal terms and proper names for things is somewhat embarrassing. Ill do my best to describe what going on.
Went for a ride bout a month ago, started and ran great, no issues. Parked at the lake and when It was time to go...nothing. wouldnt turn over, not even a click. Lights were good and strong and it was in nuetral and all that start up stuff but i hooked up a jump box just to be sure. Battery wasnt the problem. I had replaced the starter relay/solenoid thing a year ago so thats one thing I knew to check. Usually it clicks. And since I had a bad one before I know you should be able to bypass it by shorting the terminals.(started my bike that way for several months before replacing it 8) But that day nothing happened at all. It sparked once but I think I probably hit the frame. finally just loaded it in the truck and hauled it home. Electrical issues are not my thing. I avoid it whenever humanly possible. But now imlearning. Got the book and went through every wire and relay and fuse. A friend noticed the lead into the starter was loose and "tightened it up" for me. Now the solenoid would go click, click, click, click but still wasnt getting power to the starter.still couldnt bypass the solenoid and even tried putting in the old one just to see if I could get it to turn the starter via my tried and true screw driver method. No go. A week later I started looking closer and saw that the lead was still loose and the plastic housing around the post.i dont know if that was our original problem or the result of my friends tightening i, but either way it was obviously a problem now.I took the starter apart and got new parts off ebay. Only....they came in a ziplock bag with not a single printed word included. And didnt match exactly what was there before. So it took me a few tries but its back together and sounds good.
So now..the bike cranks, starter sounds good, but it wont fire. I checked for spark and all four have it. Checked to be sure its getting gas from the tank (switched to prime and watched it flow) the drain screws on my carbs are dangerously close to being stripped to I didnt verify that way...yet.
Before I tear into anything else I wanted to ask all you experts to find if there is something simple im missing. Something electrical we could have messed up in out troubleshooting perhaps? I have a tester and the book but I really dont know how to use all those stupid settings.
Please help me!! Any advise, guesses, suggestions, or even snarky remarks at this point are welcome.
Thanks, Sarah

 

Things to check:
Kill switch - make sure it is in the correct position
Kick stand relay/switch(if equipped) - make sure it is not stuck thinking the stand is down
Verify that the battery is good


Thing to try:
push start it - turn key on in neutral have some one push then shift into second gear and pop the clutch.
Use some starter fluid - Only to test to see if it will fire up.

If it will start with either method you may need to clean your carbs again

 

How old is your battery? take your multimeter and check the voltage on your battery, then hit the start button, and see how far the voltage drops. if it drops below 11.5 or so, your battery is most likely done for and doesn't have enough juice to start it.

 

Sounds like a weak battery to me too. If the starter is spinning the motor from the handlebar button, then the safety circuit is NOT "deployed."

 

Sarah, Sorry I overlooked this. Take your meter and set it to 20 volts DC, put the positive (red) probe on the positive terminal, and the negative (black) on the negative terminal. You should get a reading around the 12.2-12.7 range. Hit the starter, and the reading shouldn't drop below 11.5ish.

also some future uses as well..... When the bike is running + with some throttle the range should be between 13ish and 14.5. Anything above 14.5 and you are at danger of frying the TCI and other electronics (regulator problem). anything below 13ish, your bike isn't charging right (battery/generator problem).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg4nnsVjMUU

 

Thank you for your responses I didnt try checking the volts while cranking, but I hooked it to a jump box just in case. It does crank faster when hooked to the box. Still wouldnt try to fire tho.its not the kill switch or kick stand safety switch.
I had considered push starting but live on a steep gravel rd...so if it doesnt work im having to load it in a truck to get back because there is no way I could push it back up. Ill check a few more things tonight. Keep the ideas comin!

 

Thank you for your responses I didnt try checking the volts while cranking, but I hooked it to a jump box just in case. It does crank faster when hooked to the box. Still wouldnt try to fire tho.its not the kill switch or kick stand safety switch.
I had considered push starting but live on a steep gravel rd...so if it doesnt work im having to load it in a truck to get back because there is no way I could push it back up. Ill check a few more things tonight. Keep the ideas comin!

 

Thank you for your responses I didnt try checking the volts while cranking, but I hooked it to a jump box just in case. It does crank faster when hooked to the box. Still wouldnt try to fire tho.its not the kill switch or kick stand safety switch.
I had considered push starting but live on a steep gravel rd...so if it doesnt work im having to load it in a truck to get back because there is no way I could push it back up. Ill check a few more things tonight. Keep the ideas comin!

 

Updates!
I took put all new plugs in just in case and still no fire so I pulled the carbs. They still looked really good. So I only pulled apart two of them and then decided that since they looked good I wouldn't risk taking the other two apart and losing something. I put them back in and the bike fired right up! Actually startled me. So we can rule out the starter I rebuilt.YAY! The bike runs and sounds pretty normal with the choke on but I noticed that the exhaust pipe on the right was not blowing nearly as much and the two pipes from the third and fourth cylinder weren't heating up. Turned it off and checked all the new plugs. the side that was firing is incredbly black,but not wet like flooding. and the plugs on the other side looked almost new. Like they may not have fired at all. I only ran the bike for a few minutes. Sadly the two carbs I took apart are the ones that lead to the cylinders that dont appear to be firing.
So, any new ideas for where I go from here? The drain screw are all stripped so I can't check there. (I thought about just drilling them out while I had them out but checked with my bike guy and even though its used on a whole lot of bikes, they are no longer made. So if anybody has any ideas where I could get some new drain screws I'd apprecciate it)
So my guess is that I did something wrong putting those two back together. But what would still let it fire right up and run and sound normal but not be firing on two cylinders?

 

Well running at all is always a blessing when it hasn't been. Plugs running lean will look very clean as the lack of residual fuel allows them to get really hot, so like an oven on self-clean they do.

It sounds like your pilot circuit isn't working on 3&4. It's those tiny passages and screw/washer/o-ring system which supplies the basal fuel before you twist the throttle. They clog really easy and it's also easy to put the screw/washer/o-ring in the wrong way which can drop the vacuum=no fuel flow at idle, or off idle from this system. That will lead to dead cylinders & cold pipes. Review the material on here showing this system for your carbs, or check the internet to find detailed pics. This will help. Your going back into those carbs, thats the only way to fix this.

for the screws that are stripped (from XJ4Ever, your best source for parts top right of this website):

"Fits all XJ650 (except Turbo) models, all XJ700 non-X, and all XJ750 models using the Hitachi HSC-32 or -33 series factory carbs.

HCP54SET4 Aftermarket Hitachi allen-head stainless-steel carb BOWL DRAIN SCREWS, set of 4:
$ 17.95"

It's admirable that you're willing to work on the bike yourself, now be effective and use this site to get it back on it's feet-It can be done for sure.

 

Cool. Now you've figured out that your carbs need to be serviced (which does require taking them apart) have at it.

Meanwhile, get your valve clearances in spec so that you can properly sync the carbs once they go back on the bike.

Good call on replacing the drain screws; you'll need them operational to be able to wet-set your float levels, which is uber-important.

Get yourself a service manual; plus we have a lot of good write-ups here to help as well.

And pick up a couple of cheap muffin tins so you don't lose any carb parts.

 

Thank you SOOOOOO much! I will pull the carbs out again today. And also do a little searching to see if I can get some new drain screws. As many times as I've taken these apart I have never tried syncing them, I just dont take them off their plate. Ive also never done the float bowl check because of the stripped drain screws. I try to just not mess with the tab on the floats and just hope they stayed where they were initially. And advise for examining these parts while its apart? Other than comparing them side by side with others I don't really know how they are supposed to sit. I do have the service manual to my bike but it tells you how to test the float level, using the drain screws, after its back on the bike. Is it not something you can adjust them all the same while you have it apart? It's such a pain getting this thing back on the bike with all the boots and clamps.
Last thing. ..any suggestions on getting the stripped drain screws out?
Thanks so much, Sarah

 

Wet-setting float levels is much more easily done with the rack off the bike and "mounted" somehow so that the carbs are level in all directions.

Here's the wet-setting procedures: http://www.xj4ever.com/setting%20fuel%20levels.pdf

Valve clearances: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14827.html

Part Deux: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=29209.html

And the best way to remove stuck drain screws is with heat and a small, reverse-drill type screw extractor. The "secret" so to speak, is to mount the float bowl to a board (two sheet metal screws at opposite corners) so you can get a good grip/leverage on it.

 

XJ4ever has ALL the carb parts you could possibly dream of on these bikes... I've never had an issue sourcing any part I need since finding this site.

 

:idea:

no searching required....hmm..HNS

You can try the 'extractors'...but I've had better success using a tiny drill bit to create a flat channel in the screw head, then apply some heat and place a small really sharp flat blade screwdriver into this channel, use Vice grips to twist the flat head screwdriver and out they shall come.

 

More updates. And questions. Bike starts but only with throttle and all four pipes heating up. But won't stay running without throttle. I only warmed it for a minute or two because one time it died I thought I heard the sound of the starter winding down. So now I'm concerned that the starter is staying on the whole time. How do I check and why would it?? ?

 

If you have to hold the throttle open to get it to start then you are super rich, try starting without the choke on. Also check your spark plugs to confirm if they are black. If they look ok then adjust the throttle stop. If the starter is not disengaging you would hear it whining while the engine is running.

 

Second part of your reply is correct althomas, the starter is unmistakable if it remains engaged. It will sound really bad! Like dragging a chain down a steep hill of boulders. Roger can you be more specific about the 'sound' you heard?

Super rich??? no not likely. Without any throttle at all you have a 'pilot' or idle mix that comes from the idle circuit. It is comprised of the mixture screw, o-ring, washer, and passages that lead from the pilot jet to the intake side of your butterfly valve. Under normal conditions it will feed a 'tiny' amount of fuel without throttle applied-this fuel is mated to the air that enters based on your bench/running synch. Enough to idle and just a bit more to compensate for when you first open the throttle and before the main's come on-line. This 'basal' amount of fuel determines your overall 'rich' or 'lean' mix. Once you open the throttle you expose more openings that vacuum fuel mix from the carbs and the pilot circuit is overcome by greater amounts of fuel, so without this extra fuel your bike is starved=READ 'LEAN' at off throttle-meaning no pilot mix is coming in.

So go back and read the Wzrd posts in this thread, all you need to do to fix this has already been detailed. You will need to 1)-adjust valves in spec, 2) CLEAN X3 your carbs (meaning you would rub them in a wound and not be concerned!) Pay particular attention to your tiny pilot passages. STEP by Step....No other way to get HOME!

..and by home I mean a nice warm, purring lion of 4 cylinder HEAVEN!!