Alrernator/ brushes problem road trip mishap HELP!!!

I was on the way to Ruidoso, NM when i pulled off the road to check if i was about to hit my turn. Turned the bike off, checked map, hit the start button and all i got was very fast clicks coming from the starter. Would this be brushes issue or something else? Also I don't know if this would do anything but it was very hot today and i was running about 80mph for about 2 hours. Could the heat run the battery down faster? sounds stupid but I don't know
the bike is a 81 550 seca.
thanks in advance
josh w

 

Did you check the water level in the battery? If low add distilled/de-ionized water to correct level and charge battery.

 

battery level was fine when i left but i haven't checked it since i got back
ill do that

 

Push Start it.
Have anybody with a Meter test the Voltage.
Look for 14.2 Volts at 1,850 rpm's and above.
No.
Ck Brushes
OK > Test Start Switch and Solenoid.

Below 14.2 > NG! You'll roll to a stop Dead.

 

Heat can and Does cook the Alternator Rotor and then the Stator. I've seen some where the wire insulation has sprayed out like paint from the heat, which also causesetal fatigue in the widings , breaking wires internally.
A piss poor design on these bikes. Looong superceded.
In fairness tho It does 'usually' happen at higher mileages. But Do check the easier to source/replace other charging system parts first, You may be lucky.

 

ok quick update... I got home, a buddy picked me and the bike up. When I was stuck I tried to charge it w/ a quick charger and got about 3 miles before it died. It turned over fine but once I got on the road the spark plugs just didnt have enough juice.

i checked the battery level. its good.

Rick,
Because it died while riding Im going to assume it was less than 14.2V (I was going about 55mph when it died) . Do you have a link on how to check the stator/ alternator/ brushes? Well the whole charging system really.

[quote="Danilo"Heat can and Does cook the Alternator Rotor and then the Stator. I've seen some where the wire insulation has sprayed out like paint from the heat, which also causesetal fatigue in the widings , breaking wires internally.
A piss poor design on these bikes. Looong superceded.
In fairness tho It does 'usually' happen at higher mileages. But Do check the easier to source/replace other charging system parts first, You may be lucky.[/quote]

My bike has about 28-30k miles on it, would you consider this "high mileage" on this bike. It was sitting for about 10 years before I picked it up.

thanks for the help everyone
josh

 

Did you check the alternator brushes yet? At that mileage they may simply have worn all the way out.

The book says they need to be replaced at 10K. When I checked my '81 at 18K they were still about "half life." That may be the whole problem.

**WAIT A MINUTE** 550 Seca? What did the volt meter have to say during all this?

 

DING DING DING DING, give the man a cigar! Ask me why I'm playing with a 550 cluster in hopes of adding that voltmeter to my 650.

 

when I first got my '81 i assumed the voltmeter was just a "cartoon" with no real practical application and certainly not to be trusted.

Then I discovered that it's DIRECTLY wired into the battery/charging circuit and they're now my new best little security blankets. I checked their honesty with a DVM and they're right on.

 

Ok UPDATE
thanks for all the help guys
Ahhh the volt meter. its been shot for a while and Im not brave enough to tear it apart. It bounces back and for until the charging system settles and it off when it does settle. Its normally off by about 2-3V. So with that out, I charged the bike last night and great voltage (i think it was 12.6) I then started the bike, let it warm up and let sit at 3,000 rpm over the course of about a minute it climbed up to 13.7V. Not good enough. So I dropped it down to 2k rpm ( this is what the book recommended) and got a reading of 12.8 slowly climbing to 13.4V. So Im going to pull the alternator out tomorrow, However, I do not have a flywheel puller and the nearest Orileys wants a 200 dollar deposit for 4 hours of use, they wouldnt take my drivers license as insurance ( I asked).
So does anyone know of a way to get the alternator out by using a slightly more than basic tool set?
Thanks again for all the help
Josh W

 

Unless you've already done so, I would first start with:

- test the battery to see if it will actually hold a charge. 10 years is way past the life of a battery, even if it hasn't been in use. Your alternator may be performing just fine, the water levels in the battery may be spot-on, but if the battery won't hold the incoming charge, you'll experience some of the results you've described.

Most auto parts stores can check the ability of your battery to hold a charge, which is the critical factor.


- check the alternator stator and rotor condition:

Checking alternator stators: the resistance across each pair (w1 to w2, w1 to w3, and w2 to w3) of the three white wires (white1, white2, and white3) at the connector should be as follows:

0.50 ohms +/- 10% for all XJ550 models.

0.46 ohms +/- 10% for all XJ650, all XJ700, all XJ750, and XJ900RK models.

0.37 ohms +/- 10% for all XJ1100 models.



Checking alternator rotors: the resistance across the two lead wires (usually brown and green) at the connector should be as follows. Note that worn or damaged alternator brushes can affect these readings, as can "dirty" copper commutator strips on the rotor face (where the brushes contact the rotor):

4.5 ohms +/- 10% for all XJ550 models.

4.0 ohms +/- 10% for all XJ650, all XJ700, all XJ750, XJ900RK, and XJ1100 models.



- You should inspect and clean off any corrosion on the terminals inside the plastic connectors on the wires that come from the alternator (one has three white wires....that's for the stator, and the other has a greena nd a brown wire.....that's for the rotor). Corrosion in these terminals will reduce the amount of voltage delivered to the battery, even if the alternator is performing adequately.

Do the same for the battery post terminals, both at the battery and at the solenoid (for the positive cable).


- Of course, check the condition of the rotor brushes:

NOTE: Alternator brushes should be replaced whenever they are less than 11mm in overall length......the factory maintenance interval indicates that you should expect to replace these brushes every 8-10,000 miles. Factory brushes have "wear marks" (scribed lines) on the brush to indicate their wear limit; these aftermarket brushes also have the scribed wear line. Overall length of these brushes are 17.10mm, with 9mm of length from the wear bars to the contact end of the brushes.


- Finally, check the condition of the main fuse retaining clips for damage or corrosion. You should consider upgrading to a more modern style fusebox for beter reliability and electrical system performance.

 

Josh; Read what chacal posted.

You don't have to "pull the alternator" unless you find a problem that requires it. The brushes are located in the cover, and easily replaced.
The rest of the alternator components can be tested right where they are.
The stator slides right out (be careful on reinstallation to line up the notches for the bolts) and the rotor would only need to be pulled (special tool) if it is the problem. It can be cleaned right where it is.

Most likely you simply need to pull the cover; replace the brushes; and clean out 20+ years' worth of crud. Replace the cover gasket too and you will probably be good to go.

 

Don't start replacing the Turbines inside the Dam until you've checked the water level in the Lake.

Battery? Test AMPs / Not Volts
Fuse Panel?
Check Plug-in Connector to Voltage Regulator for signs of melting.
(If the connector overheated ... did the RED Wire get disengaged?)

Brushes. Ck Length. 10mm (min)
Rotor. Resistance.

 

Well said sir!

 

I like that Ill have to use it sometime. Well all tests according to the manual according to the book lead me to the alternator. Its pretty general it said alternator or alternator components. So I tried to take the cover off and the 27 year old Allen bolts wont come loose. I'm on hold until I can pick up an Impact Driver from harbor freight.

Ill probably be picking up a new fuse box from chacal soon so ill just add what i need to the order.

Ill keep you posted on what I find
Thanks again everyone for your help
Josh W

 

I would completely advise against the use of an impact driver on ANY part of this motorcycle.

Spend 50 bucks on a case of penetrating oil, soaking in the morning and night for a week... Try the HOT COLD method...

Anything you try, will be easier that fixing a snapped bolt...

 

Well, I haven't bought one yet. But 50 bones? Really?
These alternator cover Allen heads are hard to get a hold of with any thing but a Allen bit.
With that out there, is there ANYTHING else that can get these bolts loose for cheap. I'm not rich, that's why I have this motorcycle. However the amount of money I have put into it would suggest otherwise.
With that said

 

We're talking "Hand-held" Impact Driver, here.
Not, a 200 psi pneumatic 1/2-inch air-tool.

I have the SEARS Brand Hand-held.
There are some stubborn fasteners that NEED the Impact.
I'm always using mine for Carb Screws and Drain Screws.
I even have one Screwdriver Blade Bit that is grinded (some) to fit the Fuel Bowl Drain Screw opening.

 

Ok... my mistake. Jumped to conclusions there.

I just instantly pictured you snapping off bolts left and right with an impact...

The intentions were good, just got a little excited.

 

the only penetrating oil you will ever need, you can throw the other ones away: http://www.kanolabs.com/google/ 2 cans for $12 shipped free.