And so it begins - XJ650 Maxim electrical

Perhaps one of my biggest fears, I have started reading through the Ultimate Relay, Switch, Sensor and Diode Guide. And still I tremble.
Time for me to walk the talk and put my big boy pants on and DO THIS!

But where to start? Allow me to describe what appears to be happening and cross my fingers that some guru will get their laser pointer out and say "aha! It is right here".

The previous battery cranked slow and then cranked again and fired up, bike was idling nicely, I turned the enrichment down about half way and all of a sudden the bike stopped dead. MM indicated a huge voltage drop while cranking (down to 6v) and I figured battery was toast.

Bought a new battery filled with acid, topped with a small amount of distilled water and put on trickle charger overnight. I am NOT discounting that I got a bad battery straight out of the box, right now levels were checked and it is back on the charger (was at 11.5v). The freshly charged battery was put on bike and the bike started, in hindsight it wasn't a really robust crank. Went for a ~ 50 mile ride, made two stops bike started fine both times. Got home, parked bike and have been busy with snow falling again and spring farm chores, bike sat for about a week. Tried to start her yesterday and VERY weak crank, ultimately ending in no start.

The voltage at rest (prior to placing back on charger) is 11.9, when the key is turned the neutral light and tail light (?) come on and the voltage immediately starts ticking down (a short somewhere?). When the starter button is turned to the Run position and the starter button pushed voltage drops to 6v.

This sounds like a classic case of a bad battery . . . Although the immediate ticking down of voltage when the key is turned has me puzzled. Is that a symptom of a bad battery also?

With the battery back on the charger, once it reaches a fully charged state should I rinse, lather and repeat the above or try something new and different? Other than putting the battery back into service is there any way of verifying if it is bad?

I have verified all ground connections are tight and clean. Started a visual on wiring; cripes there is a spaghetti factory on this thing!

Am I the only person who has a heck of a time seeing fluid levels through the side of a white plastic battery? I end up popping the caps off and sticking the tip of my filler in to see when it makes contact.

Sorry about being long winded.

 

Bad battery. If the battery can't hold a full charge (around 12.6 volts) while sitting on the bench overnight, then it's got at least one bad cell.
I'd also reccomend testing the output voltage of you battery charger. It should be betwen 13.8 and 14.7 volts).


To check the electrolyte level, put a strong light behind the battery (a halogen shop light, or the sun).

 

A new battery should Never need water added. Initial fill should be acid only to get correct fill and should be charged at 1 amp for 6-10 hours . After the charge the level should still be between marks.
Then and only then may you need to add water. Resting voltage should be approx 13.2-13.4 volts

 

I added a very small amount to bring it to the "high" level.
Using Battery Tender Junior, verified 13v output. Tender light showed full charge, took battery off and reading 12.78v, will let it sit overnight and see if it is holding.

Think I tossed my receipt!
Should be able to print out debit card transaction and return . . if needed.

So if I understand correctly, a weak/ bad battery will start ticking down when the key is turned to the on position? As mentioned the neutral light and rear light turn on with key turn, not a huge drain.

 

A bad battery will begin ticking down as soon as you take a charging voltage source away. The battery voltage will drop much faster once you begin to draw from it than it will when using a good battery.

 

true but so will a good battery.
those battery testers with the floating balls [hydrometer] will tell you if the acid mix is wrong, and they're cheap!

 

I had one of those it always said charged but it wasn't working correctly. Bought a different one and the battery charged properly.

 

And I have one of those, somewhere in a box that hasn't been unpacked since we moved here 2 years ago . . . .
Which box?

 

it will be in the last box you look in of course.

 

Battery measures 12.28 volts this morning, dropped .5v sitting on the floor.

 

He's dead Jim.

 

the fastest way to find your old one is go buy a new one, you'll find the old one in a few minutes

 

I'm a Doctor damn it, not an XJ electrician!

And so it seems that the battery is bad.

But now riddle me this.

Put battery on bike at 12.28, turned key voltage dropped to 11.9v, bike started.
Let her warm up until enrichment was turned off. Reved up to 4K and voltage is at 14.5.
Brought rpm's down to 2k and remains at 14.5v, at idle (1100 rpm) voltage reads 11.7v.
Does that sound appropriate for the charging system?
The 14.5v has me concerned that I may be boiling the battery, or am I way off base with that?
When I'm riding I go above 4 k and as indicated, even ramping down to 2k the voltage stays elevated at 14.5.

 

Your charging system is fine. When you dropped the engine back to idle the regulator was still charging the battery, because it still needed be charged. Output voltages above 14.9 volts would be indicative of a faulty regulator.

 

So if I understand correctly; at idle the bike is running off the battery, or is the 11+v enough to keep the bike running and it just isn't charging the battery?

The 14v, when the battery is fully charged and 14v is still pumping through the system. . . . Isn't that 'overloading' the battery? My charger - it 'shuts off' when the battery is fully charge, does the bike have a 'voltage by pass'?


^ see I ain't lying. Electricity - I want to get it but it baffles me. If there was a place to put a wrench on it I think I would be ok.

 

Stumplifter,
Think of it like this:
The Battery is the tank on a air compressor, it stores energy, the compressor pump is the alternator. the compressor pump can't keep up with demand of air tool without the storage of the tank. Now say that you put a small hole in the tank and also try to use a air tool. The pump is constantly running, it will eventually overheat and fail. Alternators are not generators, they are intended to Maintain a Battery Not Charge it. Hope this help, I'd say you got a junk battery/weak acid. Check with a hydrometer. If you really want to lean about electricity go to allaboutcircuits.com. Days worth of reading.

 

great analogy

 

Please consider the following
In order for lead acid cell to produce a voltage, it must first receive a charge voltage from a charger. Lead acid batteries do not generate voltage on their own; they only store a charge from another source. This is the reason lead acid batteries are called storage batteries, because they only store a charge. I could go on and on but I'll stop. I love electronics and am rather good at them.

 

yes, that's what the regulator part of the regulator/rectifier does. at idle [11v] the reg tells the alt to make more volts, the alt tries but it isn't spinning fast enough so it uses some battery, but yours is sick and can only do 11v. when the rpm's go up the alt makes the volts the reg asked for. when it gets to 14v the reg says that's enough and the bike runs and the battery charges and the alt relaxes.
now if you had a giant battery like a car, the idle voltage would barely change, but you have a sick little battery
that's also why if you have a lot of accessories using power, the plug to the alt melts. the alt never gets to 14v and keeps pumping all it can then the weak link,
the plug, gets hot

 

+1 ^^^^^

 

Why would he look in more boxes after he found it?

 

he wouldent because every thing lost is always found in the last place you look,
still looking for my mind

 

[QUOTE="XJ550H, post: 563247, member: 16564]
still looking for my mind[/QUOTE]
Try looking in the last box

 

Bad battery..... as I've said in other posts over the years -- it wouldn't be the first time I've gotten bad batteries out of the box, and it takes more than 2 hands to count them....

 

Looks like I am a new bad battery virgin - first time.
How very disappointing, yet at the same time exhilarating that there isn't some other trick shit weirdo stuff going on with my electrical system!

Not that any of us should be keeping score but; @Metalliccurrent air compressor analogy helped me a lot except for the missing piece . . . which @Polock picked up and put into place. I almost feel like I learned something today . . .

Unfortunately my headed is clouded with memories of a 16 1/2 year old 'best friend' who had to leave us on Good Friday to go cross the Rainbow Bridge. My head (and heart) are like swiss cheese, I understand what you are saying and then turn around to see where my boy is . . . and he ain't there.

 

I'm still thinking about the phrase
"its in the last box"
Why does it seem so correct???
My 2cents or in australia that is USD 1.4c, AGM FTW... and if your a believer, lithium ion (SSB) FTW.
Dogs are the best people.

 

+1

 

Cats are better than people. Just ask a cat.

 

some of them thought they were better than cars

 

Mate...
Dogs and cats are better than anything.
Dogs are the best people though.
Cats are... just... like women. Who the hell knows whats going on there.

 

How does this story end? Have you tried a different charger, bought a new battery?
I'd try a different charger first. Best of luck.

 

Thanks for asking . . . it hasn't ended yet.
After doing this last Sunday:

The battery has remained on the bike and I periodically check the voltage - it is hanging at around 12.1v - even started the bike up once or twice. My understanding is that a new battery should hold a charge of at least 12.5 - 12.7. I contacted the store I purchased it at and they said to bring it in - they have test equipment and if it tests bad there is no problem return/ exchanging it even though I no longer have the receipt.

 

That's good you can exchange. I've had lots of trouble with duralast battery's had to get redneck crazy before they would exchange a car battery not once but twice.we use interstate or exide at work in our trash trucks. Never had any issues.. Currently have a Wally world battery in my bike and it's not very strong.

 

Took the battery back, they put it on the load tester, and almost immediately the guy said, "well lets get ya a new one". No questions asked. I used to live in Milwaukee, I don't think returning a bad battery without a receipt would have been that easy in the 'big city'. Up here things are different (there is good and bad).

Need to fill the battery up and get it on the charger.

 

So new battery appears to be good. Got back from a ride today and noticed (what I thought) was an excessive amount of ' boil over' coming out of the battery vent tube, could see where it sprayed back on tire/ brake housing.

Should I be concerned?

Rechecked running voltage at terminals and it is at 14.5v at 4K rpm.

 

Did you charge the new battery on the bench for at least 12 hours? Thee plates have to get saturated, and the "boiling" is part of that process. It will spit acid out if charged at more than 2 amps during the initial charge.

 

No, not a full 12 hours on the bench - something like 8-9 hours.

Should I take it out and put it back on the Battery Tender Jr. for a good long stretch?

 

Something like the "Big Crank" AMG no maintenance batter is what I run. I think it is rated at 220 CCA Made a huge difference on my thumper (KLR 650) and my Bandit 1200S. I know they cost a little more but once I tried this type of batter I will not go back to the add acid, charge and hope the batter will last a while.

Good luck.

 

That thought crossed my mind yesterday. Gonna grab a coffee can and start the AMG Battery Slush Fund.

 

As we are both from WI, I can tell you that they handle the winter even without the trickle charger. I am sure it would be better for them but my KLR fired right up this spring. Should not take you too long and in the long run you will save. $$$

 

Winter isn't done here (south of Tomahawk) forecast said Chance for snow later this week.
It was 70F today.
Probably put battery back on trickle chager and let this plates get saturated