battery? alternator? thoguhts?

I did some searching, but I can't seem to get the proper key words apparently, because I'm not finding what I'm looking for...

Okay...here's how last week went. Rode the 82 seca 650 on Monday. Everything seemed okay. It sat unridden until saturday when the bike wouldn't crank. No juice at all. No multimeter at home that day, but the test light was really dim. It was daylight when I rode, so I didn't notice whether the headlight was dim or not. THis is the first time I've had this issue.

So I charged her up with my trickle charger, and it started right up. Problem solved, right? Nope. Dead again yesterday. The battery is 18 months/2 years old, so that could be the culprit, but I'm guessing I may have an alternator issue. Testing with the multimeter tonight to confirm. I had a few questions for you, oh XJ gods. :wink:

1) at 2k (idle) I should be seeing 13-14 volts on the multimeter, right?

2) If I'm seeing that, then having the battery tested would be the next logical step, right?

3) assuming for a second that it is time for new alternator brushes, is there a decent write up of that procedure someplace? I'm pretty good with most repairs if I've got instructions. I have the haynes manual at home as well, I think, but I'm at the office and can't look at it right now to see if there's instructons on this one.

4) is screwing around with rebuilding the brushes tough? I've heard 30 minutes, but I haven't done this one before...should I be intimidated? (I'm not scared of much stuff on my bikes, but alternators are new to me) Come to think of it, I don't even know where it's located on the bike. Haven't really looked. :lol:

Other thoughts or ideas?

 

1 - yes - and with the engine off you should have 12 - 12.5 volts from the battery
2 - yes - a load test would be in order
3 - the Haynes manual does show how to do it, fairly clearly, you will just need a new alternator cover gasket/seal -- almost guaranteed to tear when you open it up.
4 - no - not hard at all. I think getting the new ones is the hardest part (oh Chacal? New customer?)

 

I will add one thing, check the fluid level in your battery. A low fluid level will cause the battery to lose charge and to not charge fully.

 

14V at 2k is the spec. Idle should be 1050.

Getting to the alternator brushes is easy:

1 - Disconnect (-) lead from battery
2 - Remove lead from starter and the 2 hold down bolts. Remove starter by pulling toward you (It is in the way of the alternator wiring.
3 - Disconnect the 2 alternator pigtails from the wiring harness.
4 - Remove 3 screws that hold alternator cover on.
5 - Pull alternator cover. Brush holder is in the cover and is held by 2 screws.

 

Speaking of the battery...I just checked mine the other day after a couple of months of tail end of summer riding and it was just lapping over the top of the plates. Warm weather and about 45 mins to an hour charging every morning before work must have affected the level of acid in the battery adversely...and fairly quickly.

A quick top up and a good charge and she worked pretty much as good as new. The battery is nearly 3 years old now and with no sign of dying on me; I charge it every morning before work almost religiously, especially now with the cooler weather hitting the southern hemisphere.

You might have an alternator issue but if the multimeter testing gives the right results it can only be your regulator being spasmodic or the battery is, as we say, cactus.

 

Trickle Chargers DON'T Charge Batteries. They only keep a couple of Amps on the battery to maintain the Battery Fluid's Specific Gravity from falling and allowing the Battery to sulfate.

In order to CHARGE the Battery ... you need a Minimum applied Amperage of 6 -to- 10 Amps over a period of time to allow the Battery to get "Deep" Charged and supply some High Amperage when called upon to Start and run the Bike.

12 Volts only means you have enough Current to light a few Bulbs.
The Battery in a Smoke Detector is 9 Volts ... low Amps.

To make the Bike Start and Run ... you need a Charger that will apply an adequate amount of Charging Amps to have the Battery deep charged with reserve power.

The Battery's Power need to be measured in Cranking Amps ... Not Volts!

 

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-13.htm
please don't charge a bike battery at 6 to 10 amps, you will kill the battery and get acid everywhere

 

Charging a motorcycle or other small engine battery at anything more than about 2 amps WILL KILL IT. Like Polock said - that kind of overcharging could actually burst it, and get acid everywhere. Possible to even cause an explosion.

 

From a normal person, I'd chuckle at this post. From someone with "tech writer" in their signature, I'm flat guffawing.

1) my battery tender charges the battery until it reaches where it should be, and then maintains it. I haven't seen a lot of "trickle chargers" that don't work that way. I suppose they exist, but I've yet to see a "dumb" charger on the market anymore. Almost all the new ones are the "smart" variety.

2) 6 to 10 amps to charge a motorcycle battery? That's just begging for huge issues.

3) In the case of trying to find out what's working and what's not (i.e. battery or charging system) you'd measure in volts, not cranking amps. (unless of course my multimeter is missing the "cranking amps" setting)

Well, I threw the battery on the charger last night, and she won't hold a charge. In this case, I'm almost happy with that result, because it's the simplest thing to fix. I'm going to have the battery "officially" checked today, but she looks like she's toast. (oh, and the battery is actually 32 months old, so I'm not too torn up about it)

 

I would say it's just not worth it to mess with motorcycle batteries. They don't seem to be built as well as car batteries (not to mention that car batteries are pretty much all sealed these days).

I had much more success (and spent less, in the long run) with the sealed AGM battery. Still works like a charm.

I had the bike in NM and the battery went bone dry pretty quick. Just stupid old technology if you ask me. I've never seen one of the old school batteries last more than 12 mos while still cranking well.

 

I routinely use my SEARS 2-10-50 Automatic Charger to charger the Motorcycle Battery and have NEVER had an incident.

Aside from the usual gassing of the Battery from being charged, there has not been one incident due to over charging and I'd be glad to let you watch the charger in action.

I stand by my assertion that a Trickle Charger won't do what a Battery Charger will do and I'm using quality Batteries when they are hooked-up to the Charger.

The Charger is fully automatic.
Can't be hooked-up backwards.
Charges a Battery overnight.

I'm quite sure that the Battery's being on their 3rd season and charged at regular intervals during the winter have kept them from being killed.

These are Batteries that are well looked after, Not a bargain brand that can only get through a season without beginning to falter.

I charge them just as I was shown bu a pretty well respected teck.
They are in a well ventilated space.
Topped-up with Distilled Water.
The Covers removed and a moist paper towel placed on top to prevent the fluid droplets from escaping and making a mess or getting on clothing.

It's Safety First and all is well.

 

As far as battery construction goes, there is no problem charging them as fast as that (or even faster), since, if you think about it, you can figure out how much current they discharge on startup:

Let's say the starter motor is about 1hp.

1 horsepower = 745 Watts.

We have a ~12V electrical system.

745W/12V = 62 Amps

This is pretty approximate, but here's the point: if it can discharge at 62A, you can potentially reverse that, and put 62A in. Chemically, this would work, sorta. Only problem is Hydrogen gas generation, which would happen really fast at 62A. My point is that it's not going to just automatically explode.

 

No. It won't automatically explode. But, if someone moved it and the Leads gave-off a spark ... the gas would explode and the battery wouldn't be far behind.

You have to be careful charging a battery. Some of the Chargers out there don't have safety circuitry and will hook-up backward and be an extreme hazard to the person doing the charging.

All the safety factors need to be recognized.
Don't overfill
Use Distilled water
Ventilation
Danger sign to those who might get near
NO Smoking ... etc.!

 

On the distilled water point, I ruined a battery by buying what I THOUGHT was distilled water at the grocery store. It was just filtered or something. Turns out it HAS to be distilled--the thing wouldn't charge properly after that.

Another mark in favor of sealed batteries...

 

damn.... you got shafted by the grocer?

 

a 2-10 50 amp"automatic" charger does not charge at 2-10-50 amps
it is current limited to 2 and 10 amps, the 50 is for jump starting
if the battery has 11 volts the charger will limit the current to 2 or 10 until the battery voltage rises to approx 14.4 volts, witch is the voltage of the charger
once this happens very little current is going into the battery and after a few hours the battery is charged
so a 10 amp charger is ok to use then ? no , why not ?
if the battery has a shorted cell the voltage will never get to 14.4 volts and the charger will keep trying at 10 amps and 14.4 volts on a 9.6 volt battery
the extra 2.4 volts @ 10 amps makes about 25 watts of heat
if the same thing happens on the 2 amp setting we only get 4.8 watts

 

If the Jug is marked "Distilled" ... it's supposed to be! If the Jug is just marked "Pure" ... then, ... all it is -- is filtered!