Battery losing water....

All,

I'm having problems with the battery in my '82 XJ1100J losing water.

I check it about every six months and usually when I do it's quite a bit low. Like a couple of inches low.

It's not the battery itself, I've had the same problem with two different batteries.

I have gone through all the diagnostics in the service manual to check the charging system and regulator and all appears to be functioning properly...and not over charging it. Of course it's possible that something is changing while I'm riding it that doesn't normally happen in the garage.

I leave it stored on a Battery Tender (a real one, not a no-name from HF). I've even swapped the Battery Tenders to make sure there's not something wrong with one of them. I have lots of other stuff stored on Battery Tenders and I've never had this problem with any of them.

I have been wondering if it's a problem with heat from the bike itself evaporating the water out of the battery. It doesn't seem to be in a location that would get excessive heat....but that could be a possible cause. I've considered wrapping the battery with some heat reflective material I have in the garage...

Has anyone else had this sort of issue with one of these bikes? Any thoughts on what solution for this problem is? I don't think I should have to check the battery every couple of months...you don't have to do that in most other vehicles or motorcycles.

I figure that surely someone on this forum has run into this problem...

 

mmmm usually is overcharging but you claim that has been checked. Unless its very new, throw it away and buy an AGM battery (Motobatt or similar). Then get rid of every drop of distilled water in the house and relax!

ps six months is too long between checks anyway.

 

I've thought about an AGM, but this battery is a pretty high quality battery and it's only a year old.
Six months? I've owned at least a dozen bikes over the years and never had to check water level in the battery that much. Maybe it's a design issue with the XJ's?
I keep thinking over charging too but everything checks out in the garage. Maybe I'll strap the Fluke to my tank bag and go for a long ride with it hooked up.

 

over chargeing is all i know of, but what about over filling.
all you really need is for the plates to be covered, if you go to the MAX line some always comes out.
seems like the end cells always need more than the center ones.
i saw a trick on BMW forums to use a catch bottle so you could put it back in on long trips

 

Only 2 things I know of that cause battery to lose water too fast:

1) bad battery.
2) overcharging.

It is possible you got hold of 2 bad batteries, even brand new occasionally has a problem.

Six months may be a bit long on your check interval too.

 

It certainly is.

Personally, I check my battery levels WEEKLY especially during the hot summer months.

 

I guess it's got to be overcharging it at some point. There's just not another reason why it would lose so much water.
I live in the Pacific NW so I don't see that many hot days. Plus I ride for pleasure not transportation so I rarely even ride if it gets above 90 degrees...
I think I'll try strapping my Fluke to my tank bag and watch the voltage while I go for a longer ride.
I may have to check it a little more often too until i get this resolved.
Thanks guys.

 

After having tons of batteries and battery issues, I went with a TruGel. Never been happier.

I have had this battery 2 years now and no maint. required. I leave the connection that came with the tender connected to the battery and plug It in every time I get home.

I would recommend this battery to everyone!

 

The original Yamaha owners manual says that checking the battery level is a "pre-ride" item, to be checked daily. (Admittedly, that might be overkill.)

I'm old school; I actually like old fashioned water-filled lead/acid batteries. They've been just fine for me for 44+ years and they're cheap.

I generally get 5 ~ 7 seasons (years) out of one. I check the water levels pretty much monthly unless it's truly hot out then once a week, as above. I only keep the batteries on a "tender" during winter layover; once they're in the bike, it's up to the bike. But I do keep the water levels maintained.

That being said, the Yamahas tend to "use up" battery water more quickly than my Norton or other bikes I've owned over the years, except other Yamahas. And it's not just ONE Yamaha, both of my operational XJs seem to consume battery water more quickly. But kept maintained, they're fine.

I'm not sure if it's vibration or ???

 

11. Overcharging

It seems counter-intuitive, but one of the most common electrical problems with this bike is battery OVER-charging due to corroded connectors. This really does happen. Here's why:

The first thing to examine is how the alternator and voltage regulator work. As mentioned earlier, the bike uses what is called a regulated alternator. The regulator "measures" the voltage in the bike's wiring harness and "programs" the alternator to make enough power to keep the voltage at the right level. It is a very simple "feedback" loop.

This is a great setup, the regulation is simple, and because the output of the alternator is variable, wastes less energy, and puts less drag on the engine at high rpm's. (more HP's!) It also saves the expense of really big transistors and heat sinks to regulate the full 19 amp output of the alternator.


The implementation, however, has a problem. Yamaha engineers chose to measure the regulated voltage after the key switch, about five feet of wire and seven or so connectors away from the alternator output. (This is necessary so that the measuring circuit and rotor coil will not draw power from the battery when the bike is off.)

But, there are those seven connectors and all that wire. This is an invitation for an inaccurate measurement. This is due to resistance along the path.

How much does this matter? Well, since the motorcycle (neglecting the battery) draws between 5 and 10 amps down this wire to power things like the headlights, ignition, etc., a total resistance in this path of only 1/2 ohm will make the alternator output RISE between 2.5 and 5 volts to compensate. This is bad.

There are two reasons this is bad. In the 1/2-ohm example, the alternator is making 12.5 to 50 watts of power more than the bike needs. Where does this power go? Let's say that one of the connectors is introducing 1/2 ohm of resistance due to corrosion. The connector will heat up. It might even melt. Could be a serious problem. And often is. Even if it doesn't melt, you just lost about 1/10 of a horsepower.

The second, and more important, reason this is bad:


11.1 Batteries Boiling (or how Yamaha keeps Yuasa in business..):

The battery is connected much closer to the output of the alternator. In fact, it is connected directly to the red wire of the output through the main fuse. When the alternator output rises by 2.5 to 5 volts as in the above example, the battery will now be "seeing" a full 17 to 19.5 volts (14.5 + 2.5 or 5)!! This WILL overcharge your battery. In the least severe case, you will be constantly be adding distilled water and replacing your battery every other year. In the most severe case, the battery will die a quick death with distended sides and your mechanic claiming, "But the regulator tested fine..."

11.2 Solutions:

Yamaha's design is sound as long as the resistance in the loop is low enough. When the bike comes from the factory, there is no corrosion in the connectors. The internal resistance of the wires is very small (I would guess less than 0.05 ohm total), resulting in a very small difference between the brown and red wires (about 0.25 volts). This difference will not boil batteries.

The solution is simple: Don't let connectors get corroded. Fix or replace connectors that are.


From the XJ Electrical FAQ at:

http://web.archive.org/web/200712140435 ... aqbig.html

 

Perhaps it's because of the sub-par charging system on the XJ's. Considering that whenever you're stopped and just idling it's not charging and actually drawing current from the battery to power everything. Then the battery recharges when you get going again. Whereas if there was enough juice to power everything with the charging system at idle the battery would only need recharged right after start-up and wouldn't be needed again until the next time you start it.
Maybe it's that continuous cycle of discharge then recharge over and over that causes more evaporation...which may be even more prevalent in stop and go driving conditions.
Just a theory...

 

Now that's an interesting theory. So happens I have the tank off to do some other stuff right now and can access most of that wiring. I think I'll clean all those connections and see if it has any effect.
Thanks!

 

I thought perhaps it just had to do with where the battery is and it being close to something hot that just boiled the battery more than usual. The first time i realized this was it was not holding charge all that well and found a few cells that were pretty low.

With as many miles as I tend to put on, when I needed to replace the battery I went with a sealed battery and I'll never go back. Sure, it's not a hugeee deal to pull the side cover and check, but unlike the 550 Seca which the cover just pulls right off, 750 Maxim's have a bolt holding the cover on. Either way, having to pull the battery every couple weeks to fuss around and add distilled water to just the right level trying to see with a flashlight is just not worth the hassle to me to save 30$ over the life span of the batt.

I also installed a short wiring harness that I leave tucked under the seat which plugs right into my tender so I don't ever need to pull the side cover, OR battery.

The AGM batt cranks stronger, and when I need to charge my phone on the aux plug i have installed, I have no worries of if the battery will still be strong enough to start the bike when I need to.

Sure, they cost a bit more, but if you shop around, you can get them for 65-70$ for a solid battery.

Simply put, I'd rather spend the 30$ more spread over the time span of 5-7 years to fuss with a battery LESS, and to ride MORE

Thats the way I look at it at least

 

Interesting thread here - I've used nothing but lead acid batteries and although I have noted some water loss over the course of a 5,000 km season of stop and go riding, I have never has a battery last for more than 2 years. I'm amazed Bigfitz has his last up to 7 years. Yes, I usually buy the cheapest ones I can find, but all lead acid batteries are fundamentally the same. Only the original factory battery lasted that long - back when all those connections were new.

Recently, on my 550 Seca, I've modded my ignition switch to trip a relay located beside a new, blade style fusebox to circumvent the operating current draw from going through the 6-7 feet of wiring to and from the ignition key switch (and through it - where the real resistance is). Now the distance from the battery through the relay to the fusebox is less than 12". I did a similar mod on my Vmax too. The result, on both bikes, is much better charging voltage (+0.5V) at idle and low RPMs - brighter headlight, better ignition, etc.

Wonder if this will help with battery life due to a more accurate "read" in the charging feedback loop - I'm about to start my 3rd season on a cheapie lead acid battery, so, fingers crossed

 

i work with AGM and gel batteries all day and for years the failure on AGM batteries is where the metal comes through the case. if you see any green corrosion there, wipe it off with something that has ammonia in it and smear it with dielectric grease

 

Keep the fluid up, don't over charge, don't deep discharge and don't let it spend time partially discharged and it will last a very long time.

My lawn tractor will be 17 years old this spring. It's on it's 2nd battery.

I did have to replace the battery on the Venture after 3 years. It's got a clock and some other things that are a continuous draw and I didn't do a good job of keeping it fully charged.

 

My lawn tractor will be 19 years old, and it's also on it's 2nd battery.

And it lives outside under a tarp, because my tiny garage is full of motorcycles.

 

And I'm betting those lawn tractor batteries aren't getting the water checked in them weekly are they.

 

Mine gets checked annually, but should probably do it more often. I'm not sure it's an apples to apples comparison though. The lawn tractor has a huge battery compared to a motorcycle. Also most lawn tractors have no electrical load once started because they have a magneto ignition.

 

Because of this thread we'll probably both need new tractor batteries this year. :roll:

 

I have an Oddyssey in the Vmax, lead acid in the Seca, but haven't bought a battery yet for the winter project Ninja. I'm trying to keep costs down and would have no issue buying a lead acid for the Ninja and another for the Seca if I could get 7 years out of them, and if they shipped from USA to Canada (they don't). Anything vehicle related, from oil to gas to parts, is 30% more expensive here so I may need to visit Ogdensburg NY for oil and batteries soon.

(No lawn tractors here, City townhouse dweller with barely a lawn)

 

Seriously, you can't get a standard lead-acid battery at Canadian Tire for under $50, just like here?

I live 18 miles from Ontario and I know there are auto parts stores there, I've seen them; c'mon now. It's BEER that's hard to find there, not batteries.

If you're going to buy batteries in the States, find someplace that carries DEKA products. I've seen 7 years out of their motorcycle batteries before. I can usually get at least 5 years out of the standard "Power Sports" offerings from the likes of Auto Zone or even Sears.

(See above; my lawn tractor battery is a Sears Die-Hard.) Oh, and my lawn's not that big either. We "downsized" from 7 acres to a town lot and my son is lazy so I kept the lawn tractor.

 

Nope best price for a battery for the new bike (same battery as the maxim x) was almost $80 with core trade in plus 13% tax

Thats for a lead acid Power sports battery with a one year warranty and a two year life cycle at Battery Plus. CT no longer stocks them in Ottawa

Walmart Ogdensburg has an equivalent or better quality one for $48 + 8%

I have an order of parts with free shipping that is destined for Ogdensburg UPS store that should save me about 1/3 the cost despite the plunging loonie and the gas to get there. Even gas here is over $5 per gallon, so a fill up down there saves the equivalent cost of the gas to go there.