blinkers STILL not working

Heya guys...

Time to tackle a wiring gremlin that's been bugging me since I first got my 82xj650j, about 3 yrs ago.

Initially, the turn signals worked intermittently for my first riding season but now they don't work at all. I replaced all the bulbs, with no lasting effect. Most recently I replaced the front left bulb that was definitely blown. The new bulb worked for about 10 secs (or roughly one canceling cycle), then stopped and hasn't worked since.

I will pull the bulbs and test each with a 12v battery, but let's assume the bulbs themselves are good..

If its not the bulbs, it could be;
corroded bulb sockets, the handlebar switch, the flasher relay, the speedometer reed switch, the canceling unit, the wires themselves, corroded connectors... ...or who knows what else.. No, seriously...What else could it be?

If it were easier, I'd be willing to ditch the stock indicators, flasher and canceling unit for a simplified aftermarket option.. but what little reading I've done says this is hugely impractical on an XJ..

I'm interested to hear what others have done and/or advice on how to solve this issue..

Any ideas on where to begin? Potential problems to eliminate first? Good methods on testing/proving the switches, etc.?

Thanks!

 

If they don't work by the time you get done with this list. You need a new bike!
But seriously. You covered pretty much everything that could be the problem.

~Ghost

 

started looking at aftermarket options, and came across these load resistors, for use with LED lighting in circuits designed for incandescent bulbs...

https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...-led-light-hyperflashing-warning-fix/191/832/

Ive read that just swapping in LED bulbs wont work because the loads are so low that the canceling unit, or flasher aren't able to interpret the signal properly... Possible that with a load resistor like these a person could just run one of these in-line and use a replacement LED bulb... the ultimate load on the system would be the same, but bulb brightness and longevity would be maximized... Will look at repairing what I have now, but these load resistors could be a good option down the road!

 

You can run led lights. You just have to switch to an electronic signal unit and will lose the self cancleing feature unless the relay mod id used.
~Ghost

 

If it blows bulb you are picking up a ground. Turning on turn signal causes it to blow. Check all grounds for corrosion as well have you upgraded your fuse block for blade type fuses? This can also cause issues.

 

Pull the flasher relay, pop it open, and clean it. They do corrode since they are not sealed units.

 

All the bulbs tested good and I cleaned up some corrosion on the sockets & ground wires. Also cleaned up the indicator switch.. no change though..

I'll try the flasher relay next...

The fuse box is new/bladed ... well 2yrs old now.. its never been the source of any problems thus far.

I think with the load resistors i mentioned, a person can drop those inline and retain all the other original components and self canceling..

If I do get the stock indicators working, the logical next step will be to test the load resistors with LEDs.. if that works, sweet!

I'll post back with progress

Thanks again guys!

 

do your lights come on when switch is activated ?
if not check wires inside switch 3 wires on slide tend to break off the slide and just need to be resoldered

 

take a look at the contacts in the sockets, i've seen where the bulb has vibrated and worn the contact in the socket and looses connection. try pushing in on the bulb.

 

The lights do nothing... absolutely nothing.

I just had the handlebar switch apart last night to clean contacts... at a glance the wiring didnt seem disturbed, but i didnt pull all the screws to release all the wiring and inspect. Initally though, gonna assume that the switch wiring is sound, but will keep this in my back pocket if all other potentials are eliminated.... Thanks.

I polished the sockets as best i was able.. lots of sanding and jimmying.. no go there..... double thanks..

Gonna pull the tank tonight, to get at the flasher relay and canceling unit.. I do have a spare wire harness, so possible i could swap in toasted components as needed... but not opposed to cracking open the flasher relay to see whats what...

fwiw, also following the Haynes indicator troubleshooting flowchart... gimme a few days (or more)

Tks again guys.. I'll be sure to post w/ updates...

(kinda hate when people post about problems, but never re-post when they find a solution -- gonna try to not be that guy)

 

Back for more!

I did the first round of testing in the haynes maual blinker troubleshooting flowchart..

Seeing 12v on the RED wire (not Br. The haynes says its Br, butthere is no Br wire at the flasher relay.)

For good measure i did what K-moe suggested and cracked open the flasher relay. The relay was sealed with an O ring, and it was totally pristine inside... sealed it back up and re-connected it.

The manual isnt totally clear on how to test the relay in isolation, it just says i should see 12v on the Br wire, but again, no brown wire at the flasher relay... Still scratching my head here..

Asuming the fuse is good since the horn is also on this circuit and it works fine.

GRR!! Will keep poking around, but let me know if you have any ideas.

Thanks!

 

New science suggests I was inspecting the side stand relay and not the flasher.

Just inspected the actual flasher this time & it looks clean. Seeing 12v on the Br wire.

Ahead full steam with more trouble shooting.

 

Ok made some progress..

Somewhere between the headlamp and the rear fender, the green and brown wires for the rear indicators are touching. Multimeter shows continuity when touching leads to the green and brown only in that section of the harness.

This seems bad, so I bypassed the rear wires completely... *SNIP*

Now I'm able to get the front indicators to turn on, but they don't flash.. I hear the relay give one click, and the indicator light stays stay on until i manually cancel.

If I read correctly, Haynes book says 1 click only from the flasher relay means replace the relay. Ive got a spare wire harness and relay so i swapped that in.. same behavior..

Does it sound like flasher relay to you guys? ...Any good way to test the flasher in isolation?

Any reason the canceling unit would prevent flashing leaving the bulb on indefinitely?

Tks again!

 

Maybe not enough load for the flasher to work because the rear signals are disconnected?

 

Shorts will burn up mechanical flashers. Rewire the rears just to make sure it isn't a load issue. If the problem doesn't go away, replace the flasher.

 

Success!

Yardog was right. The single bulb was not enough load to make the flasher work. So, I was just getting a solidly lit bulb, instead of a flashing one.

I was able to prove the flasher worked by wiring both front bulbs onto the left circuit & voila! Blinking lights!

I snipped the rear light harness wires and bypassed them completely. I'd have to pull apart the entire harness, tape and all, to find the fault -- no thanks!

I ran new wires for the rears, soldered and heat shrank everything, and I'm good to go!... Although, now I think I may have inadvertently bypassed the dash indicator light.. hmm..

While I was at it, I finally re-soldered and shrank my clutch switch, which has been delinquent since I got the bike.

 

Yay! Good job!

 

Got to thinkin.. I realized both green and brown wires probably feed the xj650's one indicator dash light, and that may be why I was having continuity across both circuits...

So, maybe that's normal, but I'm not certain & I wanted to check with you guys.... My system only started working when i ensured that the green and brown followed separate paths to ground. So....

First, will a blown dash indicator light cause the whole turn signal system to fail?

2nd, On your XJ650, if you check continuity between the green and brown indicator wires, do you get an open circuit (e.g. infinite ohms), or is that circuit completed by the dash indicator connection (e.g. zero ohms)?

Looking at the wiring diagram there is a note that says XJ650j (my bike) has only a single connection to the dash indicator, though both wires and both bulbs are drawn on the diagram.. Not too clear... single connection meaning only the green wire is connected to the bulb? or single connection meaning both brown and green are connected a single bulb?

I'd like to get the dash indicator working & thinking I can run both green & brown wires to a single bulb as long as a place diodes inline with each wire, preventing current feedback into the opposing signal wire... Does this make any sense?

 

The dash indicator is common to both circuits.
A blown dash indicator will not cause the system to fail.
If the dash light is working then you will get continutiy between the left and right signal cicuits (resistance will be wire resistance plus the resistance of the dash bulb).
If the dash light is not working then you will get an open circuit (no continuity; infinite resistance).
Both brown and green are connected to a single bulb at the dash.
The dash indicator only needs diodes if you run LED signal lights.
Your bulb is burned out.

 

Turns out my indicator bulb was not burned out, and its working now.

The original wiring that fed it was faulty and shorting to ground somewhere before reaching the dash indicator... even when I disconnected the dash indicator (and everything else) the brown and green wires were still showing continuity..... so.....

I re-wired all the indicators & dash light as stock, with all new wire, and all indicators are working good now.... no diodes needed.


Next up...
The canceling unit seems to work most of the time now, but on a few occasions it hasn't turned off after 10 secs & 150meters.....

Does the canceling unit typically always work? or does it miss its queue on occasion?

Maybe the reed switch needs some scrutiny next?

Has anyone seen an internal schematic of the canceling unit itself, or is it a total black box?

Thanks again!

 

These are not usually an intermittent item. I would check connections within the bucket and under tank for corrosion etc.

There are separate switches in the housing for the lights and signaling the canceling unit, I would start by cleaning these contacts to see if that corrects the issue.

 

Roger that... Ive had everything apart that isn't epoxy sealed, and corrosion is not the issue.

Willing to grant that there may be some added resistance, etc., that could be contributing, but Self-Canceling is working far more often than it isn't... say like 1:20 ratio of not working to working.

Really, with a functional dash indicator, I'm not too worried.. Just having working indicators (period) is a huge step forward from where I was.. Self canceling, although nice, is hardly a mandatory feature, even on new bikes.

If the self canceling issue becomes persistent, perhaps I'll dig deeper...

For now, I'm all set on my indicators.. gonna call this one SOLVED!

Thanks so much for the help, etc along the way!

 

I missed all that, shame on me for not reading the full thread.

My self cancels work 100%, if you're interested in shipping me your module for testing shoot me a PM. I'd be glad to run yours as a test.