Carb #3 - spring/butterfly/linkage alignment?

Ok.. this is embarrassing.. I took a wealth of photo and video as I took these carbs apart. But it seems I missed a good angle/picture for a crucial piece.

I'm trying to put carburetor 3 back together, and I can't seem to figure out the alignment for the spring and the linkage, I've tried different things, but they all seem "off", even when matching it up to photos I do have.

So, here's a photo of how I have it positioned at the moment. I'm positive it's wrong, because of the tension/lack of tension and where the butterfly valve would be when closed don't seem to match up, no what position I try. Maybe the spring isn't hooked in the right spots, but I'm sure it is. I just can't seem to figure out the linkage placement

 

http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/owww-my-eyes.112790/

Looks like you need to rotate the right piece 180 and then re-install. the top piece (which the idle adjustment screw goes to, should be at the bottom of the carb)

 

^^^^ yup
and those photos tell quite abit

 

you wont get any tension on the spring till you put the butterfly on, then you can wind up the tension and place the cam plate on .
otherwise the spring tension will just unwind till there is no tension

 

The stop on the carb body will keep it from unwinding all the way.

 

I gotta revisit this one right quick...

The link above to some images helped immensely, and I think I've got it all together right...but I'm worried I'm still missing something. I had the whole set of carbs linked together, and was about to start putting the brackets on, when I realized, I hadn't tightened the nut down on carb three. After I did so, the butterfly won't snap closed anymore like it should. I don't know if maybe there's a missing washer or possibly a plate alignment issue? When the nut isn't tightened down, it works perfectly.

Here are some pics to show what I've got:

Showing how I've got the washer and spacer:


And with everything on:

 

Update: I went ahead and took a closer look. I think it is a little bit of play in the butterfly and shaft. When nothing's on and the butterfly is sideways I can wiggle it back and forth. I tried redoing the butterfly screws with the butterfly closed tight and the shaft pressed all the way in, but it doesn't seem to be making any difference. Once things are tightened down, that shaft seems to push the butterfly against the throat - not scraping, I don't think - but just enough to make things not snap closed.

Unless it's something else... Suggestions?

 

I found that I couldn't use the white plastic shim on my number 3 carb otherwise when I tightened the nut it would bind and not operate smoothly

 

Looks like you labeled the butterfly so there is no chance of the wrong butterfly being installed (nor being installed upside down or backwards).

"the shaft pressed all the way in" OR the shaft tightened with the nut?
Pressing the shaft in manually isn't going to create the same scenario.
Tighten up the shaft with the nut (with the two butterfly screws loose) and then tighten the butterfly screws with the butterfly closed.

Another thought - look for any witness marks that may indicate where the butterfly is interfering with the throat. Possible that the plastic spacer has a burr or mushroomed a bit?

Good luck!

 

On HSC32 models, the #2 carb uses 2 shims per carb, and the #3 carb use 1 shim.

did you use 2 shims? looks it in the photo

 

see the washer on left?
should be no washer at spacer on right under spring.
this snip photo is from

OWWW, My Eyes!

 

WOW! Makes sense... but surprising that one thin little plastic washer could affect things so much! XJ550H and Chitwood were on the money.

I took out the little white plastic washer from behind the spacer, cinched her down and I'm in business!

 

Lens part list in his catalog has many details

 

Ok... I need to take another "stop and ask the pros" break. I hate being a beginner! Got the two brackets back on. The carbs throats are all flat on the plate.

Before I tackled the starter rod, I decided to try bench synching a bit -- in case I'd screwed something up and, it turns out, I may have screwed something up.

I hope I'm just overthinking it, but the bottom end of the idle adjustment screw is miles away from the metal tab that's supposed to stop against it -- even when screwed in as far as it'll go. I've got all the other adjustment screws backed off completely.

Am I just missing something simple, because I'm a beginner? Maybe the screws do need to be tightened down before the idle screw will hit that plate? Doesn't seem right. I swear everything was lined up well, before I started the rack un-breaking process.

Here are some more pics, to show how things stand..

1. carb two adjustment backed off completely, and idle screw nowhere near the metal tab:



2. Showing that the idle spring is compressed all the way down:


3. Just in case, a full-frontal. Can't really see, but carb three butterfly is the most open. One is completely closed.

 

maybe I'm just reading the wrong instructions... If I get the screws started in until the plate touches the idle screw, then I can synch.. I had the screws all backed off, per this website's instructions: http://xj650.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-to-bench-synch-your-carbs.html

 

the idle screw sets the #3 carb gap for bench sync retighten the other screws set #3 then do the remaining carbs


look at photo on the eyes link posted above

 

that's backwards.
use the idle knob to open 3, use the sync screws to open 1 2 4 more than 3.
use the idle knob to close 3 until the edge of the plate is just even with the first hole in the carb throat.
use the sync screws to make 1 2 4 match 3
snap the throttle a few times and check again
use the idle knob to close 3 to the edge of the second hole, all the plates should be the same and a running sync should be within 1/8 turn of the sync screws

Norton kicks that link you posted out instantly

 

Use the idle screw to nSet the #3 butterfly to the inside edge of the hole at the top of the butterfly. Now leave that alone a moment, and use the two since screws to set the other 3 butterfly's to the same edge of the same hole. Now, back the idle screw off til the butterfly's just close. NOW finish your bench-sync..

 

A-ha! Spot on... for a bench sync. And, more logical to use those holes instead of a pin or paper clip.

Thank you! I think I may have passed the scariest part of complete "rack separation anxiety"

Next up, putting the new purty bits back in and learning how to set the floats.

 

he can't 1 is already closed, he needs to get 3 in control.
Dave, you think faster than you type.

use all 3 sync screws.
turpentine, don't over think this, it takes hogfiddles maybe 2 minutes, if he drops his screwdriver, twice

 

Hahah! Yeah, I got it. I got a little confused on Hogfiddle's version after reading yours, so I followed your instructions. Got 'em lined up now. In fact, I had a magnifying glass to assist, and could still see the faint outline of where the butterfly's must've been set to before I disassembled. Helped a little for the confidence boost

EDIT: I sure DO wish New York carb class wasn't ... in New York, though

 

I hadn't read all the back through, didn't see that 1 was closed, otherwise would have said to either open 1 more

 

HaHaHa now that's a new one, keep up the good work

 

Of course, everything just ground to a halt on the rebuild. Grrr. There's a pinhole in the diaphram for carb 4. Dang! I had no idea those things were $250 each! Not sure I trust the "liquid electrical tape" patch solution, though. Just sounds like a way of delaying the inevitable? Or am I wrong? Overworrying, again?

Sorry... maybe that's a separate post. But I figured I'd keep all the stuff on this carb rack in one spot for now.

 

if it were mine, i'd use Yamabond #4. second choice, liquid tape. never used threebond 1215 but might look for it.
this is good stuff
https://www.shopyamaha.com/product/...d=36|36&ls=yamaha-motor-company&dealernumber=

 

Get another on eBay--- or threebond... it's the same thing as yamabond

 

good to know, thanks

 

Keeping with this rack of carbs, I collected a few questions over the weekend:

1 - HC32… do I need the smaller plastic spacer I’ve seen in some carb pictures. Mine didn’t have it. I thought I read somewhere that it’s not necessary on mine - but I wanted to pose the question. Here’s what I have:


2 - Also, Church of Clean mentions the top plastic ring over the diaphragm often splits. Judging by my carbs, “Often” might mean “almost always.” It’s said that, as long as there are no tears/pinches in the rubber I ‘should’ be ok. I’m hoping someone can set my mind at ease here?I’m not exactly budgeted at the moment to buy these, unless they come up cheap on ebay. First pic shows widest gap. 2nd shows partial split. Third pic shows what the remaining two look like:


3 - That metal plate covering the air jets. My carbs didn’t have that. Judging by what I’ve seen on the forums, maybe it’s not necessary… but is it beneficial? I’m not opposed to splurging to replace it. I imagine maybe it’s just to prevent my engine from gagging on loose parts in worst-case scenarios. But maybe there’s more, who knows. EDIT: I just reread the xj4ever note, and I'm not even aware if mine are threaded for that plate. Something to check tonight.

 

3 air jet cover not needed yamaha discontinued the installation of this plate

2 rings split or someone split them to install new diaphrams good to go

1 ir you are talking about the white tube pictured in your photo it sets the spacing for the choke lever. if you do not have it xj4ever sells them if it had no purpose yamaha would have stoped using them
i see what you are missing it keeps the shaft from moving side to side and cutting off the top of the plungers after a few years of riding

 

The short white tube you're missing is available, though it and the longer white tube, serve no function other than to be a temporary spacer when installing the linkage and the lifter. They don't need to be there......the parts are all held on by anchoring screws anyway. I guess it's remotely possible that they somehow dampen some vibration, but t hey are a hard material, too, and they just spin on the shaft. So I see no useful purpose for them.

Dave