Carbs to go back on

Boy, after a royal PITA I got my carbs OFF, by unscrewing the front boots from the engine and THAT was NOT easy. Only after removing bolts for air box and pushing it back the 1/2 inch it goes, and undoing the rear boots, using only an allen wrench for the front boot bolts, i could NOT, no matter what, remove a couple of them. the bottom one on the 2nd carb needed me to buy a 5mm allen driver bit and stick it into a ratcheting open end wrench. the bottom one on carb three would not come out no matter what, just no room to rotate the wrench! until i removed the fourth carb. once it was out the bolt was easy. then just a push to the left and out they all slid.

totally gummed up with old gas. i sprayed the livin crap out of them with carb cleaner. the O rings seemed kinda smashed, but brake cleaner loosened them up and i thought made them swell up too much to reuse, but after i washed the brake cleaner off with gas it then seemed like they shrunk back to normal size, and looked like new. maybe that was a figment of my imagination. i really had to work the valves inside the carbs up and down to get them to drop down. also the choke was stuck really bad on one of them and alittle bit on all, so i had to whack the end of the shaft with my lineman's pliars to get it to loosen up.

now that all seems well, after i wipe out the dried gas from the head ports with a rag, i want to put the carbs back on. it looks like somebody used avaition gasket sealer on the bolts and it maybe leaked into the area outside the O rings, but i know not to use any gasket sealer. i want to use vaseline on the O rings, like the crossover tube on a Holley car carb. Is that what I should use? is there anything better? or is nothing at all the way to go? thanks for any help, long time rider, first time poster.

oh yeah, the reason i did it this way is it seemed like it would be easy before i started. i never did this before and i don't have a manual. Actually had them out before i found this site. This place will be a great source for me, already i am planning on removing the rear brake. yes, i just got this bike after it had been sitting for at least two years and maintenance history is non existent. Brake lines also on the to do list, as soon as i get it running, that is....

 

What bike?
Hate to tell ya, but you need to start over again, this time taking the carbs completely apart and cleaning/replacing all the wear items within. Otherwise they will just frustrate you endlessly.
Almost all of the hard parts (brass and aluminum) can be cleaned, polished and reused. Almost all the soft parts (o-rings, throttle shaft seals, bowl gaskets) will need to be replaced with new ones. Inspect your diaphragms and treat them gingerly as they are the only soft part which should be reusable, but they are easily damaged if handled roughly. Mere carb cleaner in a spray can wont cut it. Buy a 1gallon can of carb cleaner, and soak every part for at least 24 hours in it. Because of the sheer number of parts, everything will not fit in the can at once, so this will take a few days overall. Search the FAQ sections, there are tutorials on how to do this the right way. Seriously, what you have done is not sufficient, do it right one time and your bike will run correctly. Otherwise, you will be going through this removal/reinstall cycle again.

 

What Hank said is true.

 

Well that pretty much blows! Glad i read this before i put them back on. Can I say $hi! on here? Do they sell new all-the-stuff-you-said here? Are they really Hitachi's? I was thinking new gas run in them would dissolve the old crap out of them. So no, huh? found the FAQ. Man, this sounds BRUTAL. i guess i am lucky i got the boot screws out of the head! Any idea how much a bike shop would charge to do this job? Thanks for the link btw, too.

btw. 86 Maxim 700

 

Send a PM to chacal, he's the resident parts guru and can hook you up with any seals, gaskets, or other bits you would need to DIY. I helped a friend do an old Honda carb setup two weekends ago and had to piece together parts from eBay, and that sucked.

He was considering having a shop do the carbs ; two he talked to were not interested in doing it at all because "they don't do carbs anymore" (what?), one quoted "at least $150 for labor, parts extra." So, if you can DIY, do so!! There are some great YouTube videos and resources here on the forum regarding disassembly and cleaning, and the sync you will need to do both on the bench and when you put them back in the bike. It's not DIFFICULT, you just need to be CAREFUL, take your time, and learn as you go. Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.

 

It has been said before . . . No one but YOU will get your carbs as clean and as meticulously rebuilt as they truly should be. Even if you find a local shop that will touch a +30 year old Japanese bike - they most likely won't love those little things as much as you do.

Order the Deluxe Rebuild Kit from Chacal, it should have everything you need.

I did mine last spring for the first time; I was intimidated. Many people here assisted (find the Church of Clean post), Google videos, but beware- every video I saw made it look quick and easy. That is not how it worked for me, patience, lots of digital pictures, and at least 4 full pages of notes. Ask questions, people here have answers- sometimes even the right ones!

The reward for patience and meticulous attention to detail?
Every time I twist the throttle I smile!

You can do this!

P.S. can' locate the Church post but did find this great link http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/index.php?threads/clean-your-own-carbs-the-whole-9-yards-by-rick-massey.2908/

 

You and I are working on the same bike, same carbs. Mine is a California emissions equipped model, otherwise you will see the same things I have.
Clear a space on your kitchen counter (if you are a bachelor) and do not violate that space with anything else! Seriously, this i step one and is vital as you don't want to lose any little parts. If you work on this every evening then you should give yourself a solid week to do this, take a bunch of photos before you start taking things apart. I chose to take remove one carb from the rack, take it apart, clean and polish everything, replace all the soft parts, then reassemble and start on the 2nd one and so on. This way I never mixed up parts between carbs. Once all four carbs were cleaned, I re-racked them, bench synced and I am on to other parts. Follow the tutorials precisely, they have been written based on experience, I skipped a few steps and had to go back and repeat some things because I got lazy.
The things to remember are; take your time, keep things clean, take pictures and notes, be meticulous. This is not difficult, you can do it.

 

Follow these instructions on rebuilding your carbs: an absolute must....anything short of this...you are wasting your time....

http://xjbikes.com/forums/index.php...-carbs-the-whole-9-yards-by-rick-massey.2908/

or

http://xjbikes.com/forums/index.php?threads/in-the-church-of-clean.14692/

 

15 years ago, fresh gasoline would eventually clean out a dirty carburetor. Gasoline is one of the best solvents to remove varnish, after all.

I made this mistake with my bike when I first got it. It had sat for 7 or 8 years. I drained what was left in the bowls out, dumped the tank, and ran it. It ran fine for about a month. Then it stopped idling and didnt like to start.

I pulled the carbs and discovered that there was no varnish to speak of. What was there, was a whole ecosystem of algae and scale. Welcome to the future of hygroscopic ethanol fuel! Gasoline wont dissolve the algae and scale. It will, however, break it loose so it can float around in there and clog up your jets and other passages.

 

Sweet! Thanks for all the helpful replies. I don't know why i didn't just ask the mechanics or service guy at the shop when i was there inquiring about the o rings. I live in a disaster area. There is no horizontal surface in my house that isn't covered with $%i! everywhere. I have a garage I could put a table in, but if it takes a week I have to blow this off if possible. I have to file all kinds of receipts, and pay my 2013 taxes before Oct. whatever the day is. I will look thru the videos for sure. I think I can do it. But it is intimidating. I have no idea how i would sync them. I'm sure the video will tell me. I have a compressor. But if it is just a matter of $150 or even 2, They are taking a trip over to Skagit Power Sports in Burlington, if they say they will do them. Since they had to order O rings, I am doubtful tho. In any case I may end up doing them anyway, as i don't think there is a anyway in hell that i am going to be able to do this and plan on riding it until next year. The rain has already started coming in. I live in NW WA and it rains all winter long. Plenty of time to work on stuff in the garage I guess. But i also have a short block Pontiac 400 in there in pieces that needs to be turned into a long block and installed into my lemans. Also if you don't know, i love to split lanes when i ride, and this country has Botts Dotts down every single lane on every road. When they are wet i do not want to ride over them! even when they are dry i wouldn't. Which is why i havent had a bike in a record(for me) fifteen years!!! Since i moved here from Nevada. I even got my first bike at 14! So, i'll take a look at these vids and see what i think. It's nice to know they are there and that you guys are here to. I'll keep ya posted. i just hope like hell it doesnt end up like my pontiac. i have been working on this engine for about five years, and the car hasn't seen a wrench almost since the day i rolled it over here seven years ago. This bike was spozed to run as soon as i put a new battery in it!!! Stupid son-in-law!!!

 

LMAO! (I've been one for 20yrs + the 1-1/2 before we got married). Don't get frustrated. Seriously, all the help you need is in this site.

Gary H.

 

All the help you need is here, as well as all of the parts. Dont bother with the dealer if you need anything. chacal from XJ4ever has just about every single part for these bikes, and cheaper than the dealer.

 

You really don't want to have a dealer do this task . . . they are in the business of making money, which means they need to move things through the shop as fast as possible - no chance for meticulous attention to detail. That is just a sad fact of our countries current business mindset (there are always exceptions).

My work bench is rather cluttered also. Only needed to clear off a space about 12" x 18" and then I had a small 'screw bin' rack that I kept the parts separated in. Used three drawers for each carb, kept items segregated that way, slides went into paper cups on top of the screw bin. Or you can borrow SWMBO's cupcake tin.

I was intimidated also, but start slowly, get some cheap straight bladed screw drivers that you can grind the tips for a custom fit in the jets and you MUST get (or borrow) a couple JIS screw drivers (those are NOT Phillips heads and chances are good they will strip out if you try a Phillips on them).

Ask questions as you move through the project, it really isn't hard, but will take a significant amount of time and a few bucks. . . . and attention to detail, attention to detail, attention to detail!

 

IMHO....Lane splitting is very dangerous......I highly suggest against it......but to each his own.....my life is worth more than a couple of minutes you might save on that daily commute....

 

Stumplifter, (better than Kiltlifter), i thought i knew everything when it came to screws and screwdrivers, but wth is a JIS? 5: i dont plan on splitting lanes much up here. too wet and slippery. i would if it weren't for dots and rain, but also, don't have any running bikes and doesn't look like i will for a while either.

Just got off the phone with dealer and they say they boil them out, but can't, or won't bench synch them. said they have to do it on the bike, and to bring it in for that is $45 after i get it back together. HOWEVER, bummer, they said about $240 for labor and then not more than $200 for the parts. So that is out of my budget. Hell even getting the parts cheap from here is going to be a stretch. Two months behind on the ol' mortgage as it is. Looks like i have new plans for the winter. So much for my poncho's clutch and pressure plate. I'll get ahold of chacal if i can find xj4ever, and at least get the parts asap. see you guys down the road, and thx for the encouragement.

btw, found JIS info here: https://www.google.com/search?q=jis drivers&client=firefox-a&hs=J9o&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=TZshVJK0D4aayATFvIHwDQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAw&biw=1024&bih=639

thanks for the heads up!! Can i just sand the tips off a standard phillips? Maybe that's what you said. ok at least now i know what you were talking about.

 

It won't cost you near that much to clean and sync your carbs, don't lose hope! As for the Japanese Industrial Standard screwdrivers (JIS), I was able to pop out all of the screws from my carbs with a normal Phillips, but it is a good idea to get a new #2 screwdriver of good quality rather than use an old cheap one with the tip and blades worn out. Use an impact driver sparingly or not at all, use penetrating fluid on everything. Let it soak into the screws overnight if you of can. The worst screws are the butterfly plate screws, tiny little bastards and I think they use Loctite on them.
Honestly, I replaced all of the orings, seals and gaskets for all four carbs for less than $50, and I replaced ALL the hardware with stainless Allen-heads for about another $50-60. Did it all myself, bench sync'd and set the float heights and they are clean and ready to go. As I was only able to work on them a couple times a week, it tooks me about three weeks, but again if you have the time to dedicate yourself to the task, you can do it much much quicker. Again, don't cut corners.

 

ok, that's good to hear as the rebuild kits are pushing $300 from xj4ever. i guess i just take them apart and buy what's shot. the o rings i saw for Hitachi were like $50!! anyway i discovered i have Minuki carbs on my water cooled 85. not an 86. so i guess i will have to give this a shot. reading that xj4ever carb rebuild page made my head swim. so many parts, and tools! tiny brushes, drivers, screws etc. you post was good to read after all that. i think i need a beer!

 

OH SNAP!!! i must be one lucky SOB cause my almost best friend races 600 stock cars at Demming Speedway and takes his carbs off and rebuilds them every single race. His engine is a 600 yamaha and he runs almost the same exact carb as we got (mikuni). He turned me onto a shop that takes them apart "agitates" them, runs drill bits thru all the ports holes, whathaveyou and rebuilds them, up in Bellingham for $75 plus parts!! holy crap, headin there right now! i just got to take off the three boots i left on first.

 

Imo that's ^ great for being in a "crunched for time situ". Rebuilding the carbs is pricey cause it hasn't been done in a long while. Knowing how to service the carbs on your bike...priceless. It's a bit daunting for a novice wrencher but once you learn it you'll better understand possible issues as they arise. Just saying.

Gary H.