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Electrical/ Battery Issues 1985 xj700

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by Mrmojorisin, Mar 9, 2016.

  1. Mrmojorisin

    Mrmojorisin New Member

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    Hi all.... new to this site, as i have only recently purchased my '85 maxim. it was a spur of the moment buy. I couldnt really say no to $1000.00 for my first bike. According to the seller, it had a few mods, and ran consistently well. Originally he had it priced for 1500 but he needed money, and I figured u cant really go wrong for $1000, so i took the plunge. Anyways.... I drove it around for a few days, and it ran descent. However i began to notice the idle would bob and dip at intersections, and sounded like it wanted to die. After doing some research on the net, and discovering how to change the idle with the screw, i experimented, and concluded that it had been set a little low. I brought it to 1100/1200 but it would still fluctuate...sometimes it would be at 1400-1500, and sometimes it would dip low again beneathe 10000 and sputter a bit. Then it finally died mid interection. I couldnt restart it, and pulled it off the road to try gain. I heard the clicking beneath the seat, and i relized my battery had died. Luckily i wasnt too far from a yamaha shop, and i pushed it the few blocks to get there. Couple days go by, and i hear back from the guy, who says the battery was fine and holding a charge, and that the charging system was alright too. He assured me that it was likely a carb issue, or dirtly plugs unable catch the spark at low rpm or something like that. He said a carb overhaul would cost me $300-$600. I said go ahead. I just want this bike running good without the worry of another breakdown. He calls me up a few days later and said my bike was running good and ready to go. However he discovered a lot of things that he had to change, as the previous owner had some of the wrong oarts on it. The bill $750. then he asked if i wanted him to do an oil change for another $100 bc i guess it was pretty dark. I was surprised at the bill, but said ok anyway....because i paid only $1000 for the bike, so i invest annother $1000 to get it rnning at its ful potential than its still worth it. I go in, and he explains all that hes done....

    pls see attached photo

    I ride away, and instantly i could feel how much smoother it was riding, and more power, though upon starting it took quit a while to warm enough. I felt good despite the kick in the money bank.

    i ride for the next 3 hours, and then notice that the dam thing still flutters while idling at intersections.... then deja vu... my lights are flickering....my horn is dull, then....it dies. luckily i was only a block away from my apartment parking spot. $860 bucks later just to have it die like the first time. FACK!

    IM looking for advice. Of course i feel good that i got the carb fixed up and running good, and i definelty noticed a difference in the ride.... but... evidently that was not the issue as he said it was. And none of that matters if i cant keep it from dying

    So should i buy a battery and see if thats all it is? if so, what kind?
    or do you think its the charging mechanism?
    any other possible causes??

    do you think i was overcharged for this work?

    this deal of a bike is sure becoming expensive :S

    thanks for all your help!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    for a dealership you were charged correctly.
    I hope he lubed you up . buy you dinner first?
    TECH TOPIC: The Real Costs of Maintenance

    I notice the bill says nothing about charging system.
    buy a battery charger and a multi meter you can fix this problem your self

    this issue could be just cleaning connections or changing brushes . when you get the battery charged you will test the charging system with your new meter
    following data from this link READ IT this is just the start
    The Ultimate Relay, Switch, Sensor, and Diodes Guide

    info at bottom of page do both tests before buying a new battery
    Starting Load Test:

    a) Adjust voltmeter to DC volts (20 volt range).
    b) Place voltmeter leads to the battery terminals (positive to positive and negative to negative) .
    c) Watch the voltmeter as you start your motorcycle, but before the engine is running.
    d) If the voltage drops below 9.5 volts, the battery has very low capacity and should be replaced.

    then this test
    Charging System Tests:

    a) Adjust voltmeter to DC volts (20 volt range).
    b) Place voltmeter leads to the battery terminals (positive to positive and negative to negative).
    c) Start the engine.
    d) Bring engine up to approximately 2,500 rpm's.
    e) Compare the voltage reading to the specification given below:

    For all XJ-series models, the maximum available charging output VOLTAGE should be as follows (all values are approximate):

    * approximately 500-2000 rpms: 1.8 volts gradually increasing to 14.2 volts
    * 2000+ rpms: 14.2 volts up to about 14.8 volts, with a maximum of 14.8 volts (all models except XJ700-X and XJ750-X)
    * 3000+ rpms: 14.2 volts up to about 14.8 volts, with a maximum of 14.8 volts (all XJ700-X and XJ750-X)


    follow the link it will tell you what you need to do to correct the problem, report your results here and we will help you
    could be just cleaning connections, changing brushes, or buying a new battery, or all three or the alternator
    alt tests.JPG


     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2016
  3. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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  4. cgutz

    cgutz Well-Known Member

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    "my lights are flickering....my horn is dull, then....it dies"

    I had a similar experience with intermittent dying, and periodic sputtering. I thought dirty carbs as well.

    Then one day I thought about electricity - no connection to carburetors. So, I checked myfuse box clips. The fuse clips were literally "falling apart." When I touched the main fuse, the thing fell out, it was just sitting in there. The clips crumbled. Fuse #2 wasn't much better. Definite intermittent contact on those two.

    Replaced all 4 fuses with inline fuses - intermittent electrical issues solved. Other issues took other remedies.

    Getting these running good and reliably can be a "cumulative" event. The money you spent on carb cleanup was not wasted, if it was done properly.

    Good luck.
     
  5. boomerangg22

    boomerangg22 Member

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    A 100 for and oil change seems a bit over priced. I would of shat my pants on that.
     
  6. Mrmojorisin

    Mrmojorisin New Member

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    thanks for the responses. i plan to take it back in once the weather clears up. the guy thinks its probably the brushes. However i havent thought to look at the fuses. Where can i locate them to see if they need replacing?
     
  7. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    You can do that, but the best alternative is to learn how to make the repairs yourself, otherwise you will end up with way too much invested in the bike as noted in your first experience with the dealer. This is a great forum that has many helpful members to get you through each task. Just be patient and realize if wrenching is new to you that things will move slowly.

    What kind of mods does it have? The invoice suggested the idle and main jets were too large, does it have pods?

    Most of the fuses are located under the cover on the instrument cluster, these should be blade fuses. The main fuse is located under the seat near the battery and is a glass fuse. A fault of the main fuse will make the bike appear totally dead, as all power (with the exception of the high current starter) is first routed through the main fuse.

    The mechanic stated the battery and charging system were OK. Follow XJ550's previously posted instructions to verify both are in working order and report back.
     
    XJ550H likes this.
  8. Mrmojorisin

    Mrmojorisin New Member

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    Back again folks!! So i got new brushes... and it seemed to solve the problem...temporarily. It was running great until it died and then wouldnt start at a Safeway underground parking garage. Luckily i had a friend near by to help me push it to their place. My friend new some people who had bikes, and they took a look at it after giving it a boost, and reason that it was the battery afterall. The mechanic had said it was good, but from what ive researched...a voltage test isnt alwasy reliable. So....i bought a new battery... and damn did my bike seem happy afterward. the lights were way brighter, and it had way more pep. The thing definetly has a personality, and i could tell that it was thanking me for the change. It was then running great for the next couple of days....until i tried to start it this morning... It would get close but just couldnt do it. So i deduced that obviousky ts in the charging system...the rectifier, or the stator. But ...it must be charging sometimes for me to have ridden it fine for two days....so its just inconsistent...or maybe something in the wiring. Anyways...ive been watching a lot of videos on testing the rectifier and stator, and i went out and bought a multi-meter and a battery charger. I pulled the rectifier of the bike, as a good starting place for testing....however...all of the videos i find show the regulator rectifier, with two cable groupings...one from the stator, and one going to the battery.... but it seems on my bike that its all incorporated into one bunch and one plug... so i need some assistance in testing this. In the plug there are 4 pins on the bottom and 3 on the top with one space empty of a pin. the for bottom pins are connected to wire colors : white, white, white, grey/brown. and the top pins are connected to colors red, black and green. Any help will be greatly appreciated.. ..and if this checks out to be alright, then ill be back for help checking the stator lol. oh...and what should the multimeter be set at? one of the ohm settings or the symbol with an arrow and "+" sign?

    gracias
     
  9. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Were the videos linked from this site? If no thtne you can ignore them.

    The full electrical monty: http://web.archive.org/web/20071214...ies.com/MotorCity/Speedway/7795/xjfaqbig.html

    The quick and dirty way is to check the battery voltage when the bike is running.

    You want your meter to be set to the 20 volt range.
    All measurements taken across the battery terminals.

    Per RickCoMatic (which is the same info in the FSM)

    "The Voltage should dip to 11 Volts with the Starter Motor running.
    The Voltage should rise once the bike is started.
    11.5 Volts to +12 Volts at lower RPM's

    12 Solid Volts at 1750
    Increasing to 14.2 Volts at 2,000
    Steady 14.2 ~ 14.5 at 2,500 and Up.
    Never exceeding 14.8 which is trouble.

    Low Voltages can be Alternator Brushes failing.
    Measure the Brushes
    10.5mm or Less Replace."
     
  10. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    did you clean the copper rings the brushes ride on when you replaced the brushes?
    use an eraser
     
  11. Mrmojorisin

    Mrmojorisin New Member

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    affirmative
    i cleaned the rings.

    so currently im experimenting with the multimeter on the recitfier that i removed from the bike. I have it set on the "->+" setting... When i place the black needle on the red wire terminal and the red needle on the 3 white wire terminals i get the readings ( 525, 521, 523) from what i gather consistency is what i want. When i do the reverse ( red needle on black wire terminal and then black needle on the 3 white) it reads = 524, 516, 486. Not as consistent. Then when i place red needle on green wire and black needle on brown, i get 527. The reverse black on green, red on brown....i get a reading of 1644. not sure if Im doing this right...but can anything be discerned from these readings??? thanks
     
  12. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    This is checking the rectifier section of the Rect/Reg assembly, and the readings appear to be OK in the diode forward bias direction - they should read open in the opposite direction. However, that is just one section of the test to verify the condition of the diodes within the Rect/Reg Assembly and is kind of starting in the middle of the recommended procedure to troubleshoot the charging system.

    Start by checking the charging voltage to be sure that is the problem. Do as K-moe or XJ550H suggested and start by measuring the voltage across the battery terminals as the RPM's are increased. Start with a fully charged battery.

    If the voltage remains flat and does not increase with RPM then we can recommend steps to isolate the problem.

    The two easiest starting points and first two steps after verifying no charging voltage is to ohm the stator and field coil.

    1. Remove left side cover, locate and disconnect the 3 terminal connector with 3 white wires. Measure the resistance between each wire: S/B .46 ohms +/- 10%.
    Note these wires often corrode and sometime even burn the connector.

    2. Remove left side cover, locate the 2 terminal connector with brown and green wire. Measure the resistance between the brown and green wire: S/B 4 ohms +/- 10%.
    Note this is a measurement of the wiring, field coil, and proper contact of the brushes to the field coil. A slightly higher reading may be observed than the actual spec.




    upload_2016-3-21_10-3-45.png
     
  13. Mrmojorisin

    Mrmojorisin New Member

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    thanks!.. So i put the rectifier back on the bike after cleaning the connectors. I connected a fully charged battery and connected the multimeter set on 20v. i ran two identical tests back to back.

    the first test:
    Full battery 13.3V
    -turn key to on -> 12.4v with slow decrease
    -start the bike 900-1100 rpm. No charge to battery. Slow decline in Voltage
    -1500rpm : increase to 14 + hits 14.84. fluctuates between 14.7 -14.8
    -2000rpm: increase to 14.93v
    -2500rpm: 14.94v and holding
    -3000rpm: 14.94 and holding

    release throuttle back to idle, and voltage slowly decreasing

    turn bike off then start over
    Test #2:

    -1000 rpm: volt depletion
    -1500 rpm : no charge. holding/fluctuating around 13.3V
    -2000rpm : increase to 14.4-14.6
    -2500rpm: 14.7
    -3000rpm: 14.8-14.84

    from what i understand over 14,8 is bad. However then two tests seemed to vary quite a bit.

    I also then checked the spark plug caps with the multimeter Ohm setting.
    3 were reading at around 4-6, and one had no reading. just an (I)
    i looked closer and there was definetly some corrosion on the wire, and inside the plug cap where it connects to the wire.

    obviously im going to get a new spark plug cap and cut the wire down a centimeter or so...

    Any follow up advice from these readings? thanks
     
  14. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Your charging voltage at the battery is high. You can go ahead and test the rest of the RR, but I'm gonna call it a faulty unit.

    The second test is good, but unless you can consistantly replicate that set of results, without seeing anything like the first test, then I think you should play it safe and replace the RR with new, unless you can find a something external that is making the RR overvolt the output (maybe corrosion or a frayed wire).
     
  15. Jean-Pierre Gauvin

    Jean-Pierre Gauvin New Member

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    Did u solved your problem? I have the same problem with my 1986 Maxim X 750. New battery ... Charging supposed to be good (tested at mechanic shop). Drill the same problem ...
     
  16. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    you have to test it your self get a meter
    ohm out the charging system clean the copper rings under the brushes check brush length.
    voltage drop test to check battery then voltage check of alternator when running.
    test specs listed above
    you will find specs in this link and what to do .
    it will tell you what to check based on your tests

    The Ultimate Relay, Switch, Sensor, and Diodes Guide
     

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