electrical issue/no start

i'm getting 12v at the fusebox, it's turning over when i try to start it, but i'm getting 4.4v @ the fuel pump connector with the key on. anybody have any idea what might be causing this?


thanks in advance.

 

Are you sure thats not the fuel gauge sender wire you are measuring?. A standard Seca has no fuel pump.

 

Hahaha. no wonder i couldn't hear it kick on.

 

wait a couple of days for this arctic blast to clear out. right now is not a good time to get any bike started. it's too damn cold and the starter is probably pulling down everything the battery can give it. leaving nothing for the ignition system.

motorcycle batteries don't hold a lot of amps like car batteries do. and probably weren't designed for arctic weather starting. 75% of the country is in arctic freeze mode right now.

my own bike wouldn't start up last night. and it had plenty of cranking power. not even a jump from the car could get it going. before the arctic front kicked in. right now i've got a floater on the battery to charge it back up and keep it from freezing.

course, all my lights come on with the key. along with the fuel pump. so that don't help in this freeze.

 

A slightly "soggy" battery can do it. It's possible for the battery to have enough oomph to spin the motor quite vigorously, but not have enough left over to fire the ignition.

Check the basics: make sure you're getting fuel, check for the presence of spark.

Make sure you've got a fully charged battery, install a BRAND NEW set of plugs, put the petcock on PRI and see if it's gonna fire.

 

yeah, i started reading through the sticky "won't start...please advise." According to the PO, who seemed to be a very knowledgeable guy (he's actually the guy who told me about this site), he cleaned the carbs really well. But who knows? I could very well have the exact same problem as the guy in that thread. it will start up and run for a bit if I use ether, but last time i did that, the thing backfired and caught the can and part of the airbox on fire. Didn't damage anything, but it scared the crap out of me. Got it on video, too.
But it seems like i'm not getting fuel. the petcock works, but the fuel line needs replacing.

 

alright. put a new set of plugs in; replaced the fuel line; charged the brand new battery.
still won't start, even with the charger still on it. pulled the carbs and they've got fuel in the bowls; however, couldn't smell fuel when trying to turn it over. there's a bit of fuel on the inside of the intake manifolds.

while messing with the carbs, noticed that the choke doesn't seem to be doing much. what should i look for when engaging the choke lever?

any insight as to what might be going on?

 

you should be able to see something moving up and down as you move the choke lever.

each carb should have some type of shaft that moves with the choke.

 

The "Problem" is rarely the Enrichment Plunger.
Basically, ... The Plunger is simply a "Valve"

The Problem with a "Choke" not working is usually in the Fuel Bowl.
Foreign matter clogs the Metering Jets in the bottom of the Fuel Bowl.

The little Reservoir that the Enrichment Circuits Brass Siphon Tube gets inserted into, ... is prevented from filling.
NO Fuel is sent to the Plunger Valve as a result.

TEST.

Use a few shots of Starting Fluid squirted into the Airbox opening.
If she fires-up, ... you have clogged-up Fuel Bowls.
Your Carbs need Cleaning.

If the Engine does not fire, ...
The Problem is Ignition related.

 

wondering if he has a garage with a heater. :lol:

it's still 17 degrees where he's at.

 

@Rick- it started a few days ago with starter fluid, revved and then died. so i'm guessing a good cleaning is in order (who'd have figured? ).


@ snowwy- I can see the enrichment plunger moving on the outside of the carb, but nothing on the inside of the carb (which makes sense to me after rick's explanation). And yes, it is so mother freaking cold right now. public schools have been closed for two days and will probably be closed tomorrow, too. Fortunately i have one of those multi-fuel jet heaters. It's actually hotter in my garage than in my house. gotta keep that garage door open so's not to poison my self with CO, but it provides a perfect way to access the case of beer that's sitting on the 1 1/2" of ice that's right outside the door!

thanks dudes!

 

got my bike started today. it was a nice hot 25 degrees today. i shoulda disconnected my battery floater though as the wires broke and melted on the perfectly chromed exhaust. (-:

now i gotta buy a new floater.

how you making out on your bike. i see 21 degrees in plano texas today.

 

would that be your Suzuki?

Did you ride it or just run it?

 

too damn cold to ride. i just fired her up to get it good and hot enough to change the oil and filter. the weather is supposed to be decent enough on saturday i might take her out for a breakfast run. and some new tires so i can get a safety inspection to renew the registration.

 

oddly enough, i got called into work to teach a whopping two lessons. All the public schools were closed, yet they think that people are gonna get out on the roads for music lessons. So i didn't get a lot of time to work on the carbs.

I can honestly say i'm not quite sure what the hell i'm doing. The only mechanic work i've ever been a part of had to do with old tractors, and my only jobs were to hand my pops the right tool, hold the flashlight, stay out of the way, and not say anything too stupid.

I'm reading Rick's carb cleaning guide, and studying the diagram in the owner's manual, but it's kinda slow going. It's a little difficult to remember all the names of these things at first...

 

ever seen "House"?.. differential diagnosis to follow:

Go on down to O'riley's with a $30 bill and come back with
1) can of starting fluid
2)compression gage
3)multimeter (ok so maybe more like $40)

O'riley's has a free tool borrowing program but inventory varies from store to store. These are on the "must have" list anyway so go ahead and get 'em.

Do a compression check.
compression should be between 130 and 170 with the max difference being around 15 from the highest to lowest. If you get a funny reading squirt a bit of oil in through the spark plug hole, crank a few times and run the test again. Even if the readings are still a wee bit hinky I wouldn't sweat it TOO much, to get an accurate check it really needs to be done on a motor that's warmed up. (thermal expansion of components and plenty of lubrication circulated)

If it has good compression (or even weak compression) then WITH spark (or even weak spark) it will start on ether (starting fluid) whether it has fuel or no fuel in, to and through the carbs.

If it has compression and won't start on ether then you have a spark problem.
If it starts on the ether but won't STAY running then you have a fuel problem.

We'll be here when ya get back
all the best.

 

thanks. i already have access to all those things. my roommate is a gearhead. He knows how to work on bikes, but says that the xj irritates him. I'm trying to utilize him as reference as much as possible.

You should have heard him cussing about the location of the master cylinder. ha. he has tourette's, so anything in too tiny of a space really pisses him off cause he'll accidentally twitch a screwdriver off his mark. Poor guy.
Helluva good sport, though.

it starts on ether and won't stay running. the petcock works and the fuel line is brand new. i'm in the process of taking these carbs apart and trying my damndest not to mess anything up.

thanks for the insight.

 

you should here me cussing about the location of the master cylinder
Hydraulic brakes were kinda new to bikes and yamaha was trying to hide the reservoir. The master cylinder has to be below the reservoir.

The atari dashboard. the immense number of sensors and switches feeding back critical information to the LCD display such as whether or not your kickstand is down. The battery fluid level sensor!
The low fuel warning light that comes on every time gas sloshes back and forth in the tank when you're at something below half a tank.
The anti-dive fork dampening thing.

"It was the 80's man... crazy times"

ah ok. The PO said he cleaned the carbs. Look for common culprits he could have put back together wrong. Start with the easiest to access and check those off the list first. IE leave the carbs right there on the bike, get ya some plastic tubing to stuff into the bowl drains and do the float level check.
Don't have to take nothin off to check and if they need adjustment all ya gotta pull is the bowls, not the whole carbs.

Stuff the tubing in the drain, turn the petcock to prime (the ARROW aims at PRI, not the lever) open the screw while holding the tube next to the bowl. the gas should come up just under the edge of where the bowl meets the carb body. about 1/4 to 1/8" from the top of the bowl. Too high makes ya flood. Too low and it starves for fuel.

If that checks out OK I'd check the mixture screws. Again, all ya gotta pull is the tank, carbs stay where they are. Carefully screw them in, counting the number of turns until they seat. Then back them out the same number of turns. I've got a bunch of funky tuning on mine so I couldn't tell ya what they should be on yours (nor can the book since they were factory sealed) but other folk around here can.

Keep at it. I talk a lot of shit about my ol gal but I love her just the same.
If nothing else she brings a smile to my face when a buddy utters the phrase "chain maintenance"

 

well, sh** the bed. i already pulled em and started taking them apart. the first one looks pretty clean on the topside. the float bowl is a tad dingy and the float itself kinda has some gunk on it. nothing that looks to me like it would have been clogging anything.

i'm COMPLETELY new to this. One thing i just thought about is the fact that the PO hadn't installed airbox-carb boots, so he had to fatten the hell out of it to get it running and even then it was still running lean. I ordered a set from chacal and installed them. My logic (which most definitely could be flawed at this juncture) tells me that might have something to do with this situation.

I know that it would be a great learning situation to just go ahead with the whole cleaning process. but, as i only have one carb completely dissassembled, should i go ahead with it or reassemble and try the float level check?

there's a thread with detailed instructions on that, right?

 

I would go ahead and clean at least the enrichment wells in all 4 carb bowls; and while you're at it, make sure the drain screws are free. That way you can do a proper float level check (since the rack is off anyway) before you put it back on. The enrichment wells are the "drillways" that run down the insides of the bowl bodies, check the carb cleaning threads for further details.

Also, while it's off, check the sync (bench sync.)

And yes, trying to start it without the airbox-to-carb boots can often lead to frustration.