Electrical problem - replacing fuse box

Hi everybody,

Just picked up and XJ650 a couple of weeks ago. It was running pretty well after the plugs where changed. Took it out for a nice 30km drive around the city. Near the end it was hesitating a bit, kind of stuttering. Took it home and left it for a while to ponder.

Later in the evening I took out to see a friend, and as it got dark I realized my instrument panel and headlight weren`t lit up. Pulled off onto a side street, slowed down, and the thing died on me. Popped the seat off and examined the fuses. Wiggled them back and forth, shifted them around... first no start, then it starts up again... signal lights on and off depending on how I wiggled the fuse. Stuttering a lot. Headlight and instrument panel strangely only lit up when I give it some gas -- maybe extra current overcoming some resistance?

Anyway, left it overnight on a side street because I didn`t feel like getting smacked by a car that can`t see me. So, a couple of questions.

1. Do you think it`s just the fuse box that`s the problem? I understand this is one of the the first things to replace as the factory one is prone to corrosion. Almost snapped a couple of the clips when I tried to push them together.

2. I`m in Toronto, right downtown. If anybody else is in the area can you tell me where I can get a replacement fuse box on a Sunday? The NAPA guy seemed to think they wouldn`t have anything like that, but he didn`t look. Don`t know if the The Source is still doing parts in Canada either.

Thanks for all the help!

 

Re: Electical problem - replacing fuse box

Yes I would bet that the fuse block is all your problem. These guys have the best price I know of
http://www.wiringproducts.com/

In the mean time you could go to a RadioShack type store or Canadian tire and buy some inline fuse holders. These will keep you going until the fuse block arrives. If you install the inline fuse holders with 1/4 inch spade connectors; females on the main wiring and males on the inline fuse holders then the fuse block will just plug right in. Go to the photo gallery search and search for fuse. You will get examples of both.

 

Re: Electical problem - replacing fuse box

It's also worth mentioning that on the way home today it was misfiring really badly. Lots of pop-pop from the exhaust... still just the fuses? First thing to fix, I know, but wondering if anybody has any ideas.

 

Re: Electical problem - replacing fuse box

After you replace the fuse box check the alternator brushes, they need to be at least 11 mm and may have a service limit marking on them. Check the battery is OK. Check the condition of the wires and connectors on everything on the bike! High resistance joints on the connectors can cause all sorts of problems.

When does the Popping happen?
Steady throttle, acceleration or deceleration?
What do the plugs look like?
Are all the header pipes hot? (be careful you don't burn yourself, I just spit on each one ).
Check the coils for resistance reading.

 

Re: Electical problem - replacing fuse box

If the main fuse is fitting loosely then that will most certainly cause backfiring. It kills the ignition while fuel is still being pulled into the combustion chamber. It is then pushed out unfired and when ignition is resumed the following hot gases ignite the unburned fuel in the exhaust.

 

Re: Electical problem - replacing fuse box

Okay, just replaced the fuse box temporarily with a 4 tube fuse block from Canadian Tire. Since it's not sealed I think I'll spring for the blade type that BlueMaxim suggested, but this will do until that order comes through. At any rate, 1/4" connectors are on all the wires now.

So, after replacing the fuses, the signal lights work flawlessly, and it starts up nicely... but the instrument lights and headlight don't come on until I rev the bike a little. If the revs drop below a certain threshold they go off again. And it's still gutless and popping when accelerating through the low end, but seems to smooth out in the mid rpm range.

I guess I'll have to go over all of the connections and check the alternator brushes tomorrow. Battery is definitely good, seller told me it was new this year. Looks it anyway. Anybody recommend anything to clean the contacts for all the snap type connections? Some kind of spray on stuff?

Also needs an oil change quite badly. Apparently last time it was changed was before the beginning of last season, over a year ago. Won't cause electrical problems I know, but maybe misfiring if it's too hot? I was going to change it as soon as I got some Seafoam to run through it, but I don't think that'll be happening any time soon.

Kiwi, does seem to happen on acceleration as above. Not when idling, and not once it reaches a certain threshold for rpm. Didn't get a chance to check out the headers after I last ran it, but the left side exhaust pipe is bluing, which I'm not sure it was before. Haven't pulled the plugs, but when I took it in to get certified roadworthy the mechanic changed them. He didn't mention any problems with them. I'll take a look later. I'll see if I can get a hold of a meter to check those coils...

Thanks for all of the advice everybody. I want to love this thing but it's giving me grief right now!

 

Re: Electical problem - replacing fuse box

Anyone know of a good place to get alternator brushes, particularily for canadians like Brendtron and myself?

 

Re: Electical problem - replacing fuse box

Oh yeah, the main fuse also seemed quite warm when I pulled it over last night. That was still the original fuse box.

 

Re: Electical problem - replacing fuse box

Your clutch and brake adjustments are good. I would now lean heavily on changing the alternator brushes. They can be checked buy measuring their length from end to end. 10mm is the service limit. Below this and they should be rplaced. I don't know of a Canadian supplier but one of our trusty Canuks will chime in with that info. You can always depend on them!
The hot main fuse is classic of a fuse block needing to be replaced. My buddy has problems with his fuse block on his 1983 Yamaha Venture. The plastic on the fuse box is melted where his got hot. Resistance builds up here and can cause a lot of greif. My bike just quite one night at 65 mph on the interstate. Lights and all went out for a second or two and when they came back on I got a loud backfire. I knew right away it was the fuse block. I have a new one on now and it is wonderful.
Blueing on an exhaust header usually means a hot cylinder. I would turn out my mixture screw a half turn if you are going to ride it. IF not then wait and do a colortune.

 

Okay, a couple of problems I've come across during my contact cleaning.

Not sure if this happened before or after I got the bike, or whether it's the cause or result of resistance in the system (or if it just looks bad and isn't affecting a thing). Looks old to me though. At any rate, I'll have to see what Canadian tire has to replace this thing.

Second pic is my $5 Canadian Tire fuse panel. Will be replaced with a blade type a bit later.

Next is something I've never seen before. At first it really freaked me out to see (Cylinder 2 I think?) with no cap on the top of the spark plug. I checked the opposite side, inner cylinder, and it had the same thing. The outer ones have the standard plug on top. The inner and outer wires are a different design. Do some wires connect to the small threaded bit on the top of the spark plug, or are the plugs just coming apart?

Couldn't pull the plugs to see if I could screw it into whatever's in the wire to pull it out. My damn tools are still enroute from BC. Very frustrating... the place I'm staying doesn't even have a socket or wrench big enough to get around the drain plug.

So, I guess I know the connector is screwed.. but what do you think about the plugs?

 

Pic 3 appears to be the wires from the alternator to the rectifier. Plug got too hot - need to get that cleaned up. Two shorted together would not be a good thing.

The plugs with the little cap removed (inner) work with stock plug caps. I'd guess someone replaced the coil for 1/4 and ended up with a different type of plug cap.

 

Thanks, I was wondering what that connector actually was. Got a bit to dark out before I could trace it. So, what do you think happened there? Resistance from the bad fuse panel just heated it up? Hard to diagnose over the internet I know, and doubly hard because I don't have my tools to actually dig into the thing and report back.. but I appreciate all the input.

 

As far as your plugs go, factory XJ wires do not need the little screw-on piece (someone correct me if i'm wrong). the type of wires that the OEM's got replaced with (on #1 and #4) might require the little adapter.... :?

are the coils the same? you'll notice that #1 and #4 (outer) go to the same coil, as do #2 and #3 (inner).

sounds like the PO did some DIY ;-)

 

I had the same problem with my fuse box and just put an inline in also and seems to make a big difference but im cheap and not going to pay the extra for a "oem" box....the one wire fused like that will have to be fixed

 

The melted plug is the result of to heavy of a current draw by your bikes electrical systems, ostensibly from corrosion as you have already surmised. This is a common problem with our XJs given their age and the lousy design of the connector crimps. No effort or expense was made to protect the wiring at the crimp. This means everyones electrical harness is a ticking time bomb waiting to melt. The only means of fixing this issue is to address the root cause of it. This would mean replacement of the harness and a properly sealed connection. Unfortunately, new harnesses don't exist and no provisions have been made for an upgrade to the weather/water tight connectors. That leaves milking what you have along for a while untill other options present themselves or it just plain gives out. Best one can do at this time is to clean all contacts of corrosion (a long and messy job) and properly seal them against the elements. An earlier thread had a post with a site in Germany that makes harnesses for these bikes but the price and quality is unknown at the moment. I'm thinking about springing the money to verify the application a some time down the road when I have a couple hundred dollars floating about. In the mean time, I use a Pasche Air Eraser mini media blaster to clean all of my contacts and and seal them with environmental seal heat shrink. You can use regular heat shrink as well but I would recommend a daub of hot glue on the exposed wire in the contact to seal the copper from the air. The heat of the heat gun will not only shrink the tubing down but will melt the glue and give a similar result as the environmental stuff. Get the parts cleaned up as best you can with what ever means you have available. I've even heard of folks using sand paper and acid to clean contacts. The acid approach is dicey at best and you have the worry of not having removed it all after the job.