Electrical problems-blinkers, horns, taillight

Hello, I'm a new member and fairly new (inexperienced at least) owner of a 1982 xj750j Maxim. My mechanical knowledge is pretty limited--I can change the oil and brakes on my car and I can follow printed directions, but that's about it. I do know blinker fluid doesn't exist and elbow grease isn't sold in stores.

My problems are as follows:
1. The blinkers light but don't blink. --I've read this could be caused by any drop in voltage at all, but I wonder if it might be related to the others.
2. The brake light comes on when you turn the key.
3. The horn comes on when you turn the key.

Now I'm not sure--I don't have immediate access to the bike right now, it's across town--but I think the battery may be in backwards. Something in the way it looked last time I was working on the bike makes me wonder. Though, I've been told the bike shouldn't run at all if that were the case. On the other hand, the shop that told me that won't look at the bike because it's too old for them (they're primarily a honda shop).

Any ideas?

 

What's the history of the bike? Did you just purchase the bike, or has it mysteriously developed these problems in the past weeks?

Sounds like something is odd... does the bike start?

When was it last ridden?

 

Not to insult you, but is it in fact the brake light coming on, or just the standard running light?

I don't think a backward battery would make the horn come on, but I think I could devise a circuit where it would, so I'm not saying it's impossible. The polarity should be pretty easy to check. I don't know exactly how the Maxim is wired, but one of the first things you run into on the positive lead (which SHOULD be red) is the starter solinoid. It's a metal cylinder about the size of a film canister (anyone remember those) and on the Seca, it's directly aft of the battery. The negative lead SHOULD be black, but if the bike's been rewired, there's no telling.

Some pics might help us help you.

In my opinion, the horn thing is probably just a stuck contact in the horn switch. Take it apart, degunk it, and let us know what's what.

BTW, I've been told by a shop that they wouldn't work on my bike as well. They said they've had too many people abandon bikes with them when they realized they couldn't afford the parts/repairs, and that was a Yamaha shop (Chicago Cycle Center).

 

I am the third owner. I purchased the bike August 30th, 2004.

I have dropped it a couple times, but not too hard, just enough to smash the turn signals and bend the clutch and brake levers. One fall did break the clutch perch and one did put a small ding in the end of one muffler.

Due to my work schedule I did not get to ride it much in late 2005, and due parking-lot accidents (one embarrasing, one likely deliberate by unknown parties, and one suspicious) I haven't been able to ride since. I'd have to say I haven't been able to ride since May or June 2005.

The problems seem to have developed while the bike was in the shop over the winter to get the clutch perch, right-side front turn signal, and battery cover screw replaced. They also charged the battery. The shop insists they could not have caused any of the problems, and I suppose I am forced to admit it could have started in the few days before.

I replaced the tank of gas, but the bike doesn't want to start; I tried to jump it from a car (which I read up on first; conclusion was it was relatively safe as long as you didn't start the car). It started and ran rough for a while with some choke which I reduced over time. I had to restart a couple times and I let it run for several minutes before taking it off the car and for a while after ward. When it died while off the car, it wouldn't restart on its own. I didn't hook it back up to the car because I was tired of the horn.

 

No insult taken; you're quite right to ask. The red taillight is lit, and the "brake" indicator light is on in the instrument panel along with the red "warning" light at the base of the instrument panel. The fuel and battery indicators are also on; there is only about a gallon in the tank so I know the fuel indicator is giving a true positive.

I can't tell you if it's been rewired or not, but right now I think the red lead is actually hooked to the negative terminal and the black to the positive. The bike is in my parents' garage since I don't have one and I am a little worried about holligans at the my apartment. (I don't want to expose the bike to malicious breakage before I even get it fixed.) I will be able to check it tomorrow evening and take pictures then.

Ok. Any suggestions on degunkers for the cash-strapped?

Ah. Never thought about that. Luckily and unluckily this is a smaller town (Fort Wayne, IN) so I'd be surprised if there's been all that much abandonment. But then, we only have one dedicated Yamaha shop and I'm past my tolerance point with them.

 

Carbs at this point are likely dirty (unless you stabilized the fuel when you stored it). This would be part of the reason it was acting up.

It sounds like your battery has discharged and might need to be replaced. Try charging in with a good charger and see if it holds properly. If you take it to a battery store they will often do a free battery test in the hopes you buy the replacement battery from them. A discharged battery will freeze and get damaged. A discharged battery will also muck up the plates and not hold a charge well... if you didn't maintain the battery over the winter and it was not behaving well prior to storage I would not discount the battery as part of the starting issue.

At this point I'd simply disconnect the horn until the bike was running properly.

As for degunking the horn - take the control apart and clean the metal contacts - make sure the button is not stuck in of course...

 

I wouldn't be the least surprised if the carbs were as dirty as an Enron executive. I did put some cleaner in the new gas and it did run progressively smoother as it was going.

Ok. I'll ring some shops and see what they say about testing.

Er, is it legal to run without a horn? Not that the horn doesn't sound like the pathetic last gasp of a dieing duck and no one in their right minds would confuse it for a vehicle's horn, but still....

 

Disconnect the horn for as long as it takes to sort the bike running right, then reconnect it... I just couldn't stand it honking for ages as I tuned a bike.

That and it's also another small draw on the battery which won't help when you're starting. I guess the electrical gremilins will need hunting sooner rather than later...

 

Ok, if THAT brake light is coming on, then it's either another indication of electrical gremlins, or you're low on brake fluid in the master clyinder. I would DEFINITELY eyeball check the brake fluid level before riding again.

If that's the case, it is most certainly backwards. But again, I'd be surprised. Check on it and let us know.

As Woot said, just take it apart and go from there. Sometimes WD-40 is all you need, sometimes it takes fine grit sandpaper. It really depends on what you find. You could also do some poking with a multimeter to determine if it is in fact a stuck switch. You should have no continuity between the leads on the switch until you depress it (this should be done w/ the key off). If you can disconnect the wires going to the posts on the switch and there's continuity without depressing the switch, it's stuck. If there's no continuity in the switch then something is liely messed up in teh wiring somewhere or perhaps in the horn relay. It the bike was dropped, I could definitely see it jarring the switch and/or displacing the spring in there so it's always on. Maybe someone with a Maxim can chime in w/ more specific pointers on the type of switch you have.

 

I'm going to chim in here fellas. You mentioned the shop replaced your clutch perch. If they replaced it with a used unit (likey), then they may well have pinched the wires when they re-installed the cluster. Dis-assemble the perch and verify. Cleaning the mechanisim with isopropyl alcohol or WD40 would be advisable. As for your blinkers, have you had the bike up past 2,500RPM? If you have and the blinkers aren't working, the likely culprit is your relay, replace it with an inexpensive electronic type from the automotive parts store (you can find a discussion on this in the modification forum). Brake light could be one or both of your switches sticking (this is a hunch). Clean each vigorously with alcohol or WD and check them out again. If it is still on, odds are on the wiring being pinched somewhere. Get out your multimeter and start chasing wires. As for the legality of a horn, I know that it is required in most states but I wouldn't operate without one 'cause I don't know of anyone who can holler louder than that stupid peanut horn we have while riding if you needed to catch someone's attention. I'm betting you need a new battery but I'm puzzled as to how one could install the battery on a Max backwards! Is it possible to do this and not notice it? Given that the 650's battery terminals are on only one side of the battery (thus, if you installed it backwards it would be fairly obvious), I'm stumped.

 

For clarity - I wouldn't recommend riding the bike without the horn, but for debugging purposes I sure we disconnect it so I could hear myself think.

 

Funny story - I was riding in Seattle city traffic a few months ago at night, with a girl on the back of the bike, when all of a sudden it starts honking, and won't stop! I pulled into the left turn lane, and tried to fix the problem, but the girl on the back was kinda freakin' out because of all the fast traffic on both sides of us. I pulled out my pocketknife and just cut the leads to both horns. When I got it home, I cleaned the switch and that fixed the problem.

Anyway, long story short, the horn problem might be the switch. It might also be an exposed wire under the seat or tank or something. Get a multimeter and trace the voltage from the brake light to it's source (on my bike the brakelight wire is yellow). Good luck.

 

The flashers need 27watt globes in to flash with the standard relay , out here the globes are $3 each! , i found a car elecronic flasher and have fitted that , i do not know if the self canceller works yet as the bike no going and i would not care if it did not.

the elctronic flasher had 3 prongs marked X[power] , P [pilot?] , L [lights] , so i swapped wires on the plug as they were a different order and will never have to worry about that again.

from wire loom to plug on mine is brown [power] , brown/white [lights] , yellow/green [cancelling] , after Cutting the wires i swapped b/w to y/g on plug and y/g to b/w on plug and flashers worky ok with any globe....

hope it helps.........

 

for the blinkers, rev the bike to 3K RPM's if they blink, its jsut a low battery, if they dont, check and see if the charging system is working(does the headlight brighten up with engine speed... using a multimeter at the battery... etc. etc.) if the charging system is good, it is more likely that it is resistance or corrosion on your wires, switches, connectors, or sockets, than it is that your bi mettalic strip flasher has gone bad, those things are fairly solid, while replacing your flasher with an electronic unit will overcome the resistance problem as it is no longer dependant on current draw, the corrosion will continue, and may eventually short out the bulb, or cause an open circuit condition.

 

oops

 

Well, last night didn't quite go as planned.

I opened the bike up and checked the battery: the leads are attached to the right posts. So that's not it.

The window on the fluid reserve has gone opaque with time and the lid screws are so badly rusted, the slots are crumbling rather than turning the screw. So I'll have to tap those this weekend.

I didn't have time before the sun set to disassemble the horn switch, but it doesn't look like the wires run through the perch, so I don't think they're pinched.

Well, I know some things that aren't wrong, so I guess that's progress. I also took some pictures, but they turned out crap, so I'm going to skip posting them.

 

Progress!

The battery was toast--which probably explains the lack of start and non-blinking of the...er, blinkers. New battery goes in this weekend.

I also bought a screw extractor to remove the stripped screws on the brake master cylinder. Now I just have to go back and get replacement screws. That's another thing for this weekend.

I took the horn switch off the handlebar and there was indeed a crushed wire. I don't know why I didn't have horn problems in the last year, but hey, I put some electrical tape around the crushed portion and rerouted the wire back where it was supposed to go and the horn stopped. Victory!

Thank you all very much for your advice. I wouldn't have known what to do otherwise, and the shop would have charged through the nose for all this.

 

It sounds to me that the wiring is shorting out up in the clutch handle area. Everything that has been borought up so far points to this. The blinkers & horn are on this circuit, but I can't speak for the brake circuit. Also, everything gets sorted out in the headlight housing on my 81 Maxim, not sure about yours, but there could be a short there also. I'd first take the horn/blinker/clutch handle apart and make sure everything is clean and no wires are pinched. I suspect the problem is there.

You've spoke of dropping the bike several times,, I suspect you sent a bunch of sediment into the screens above the float needles and are experiencing pluggage there. You'd be suprised at how much crap collects above those screens.

Check your brake light by installing a new 1157 bulb. It sems to be the oddball and may just be a burnt out light.

Good Luck!

Michael

 

I can answer that withone of my most embarrassing post episodes on the XJ list. The battery will only go in one way is you are looking. The negative lead comes from the right side while the positive lead comes from the left. So the positive lead has to cross over the negative lead on the outside of the battery to reach the positive terminal on the top right side of the battery.
After installing a new engine I failed to cross the leads and hooked the battery up in reverse. This error caused the oil sensor light to come on with the key off. After several posts to DV and checking the regulator and rectifier with a multimeter he stated that;
"at this point the only thing I know of that woud cause circuit is if the battery is wired backwards. I don't mean to be insulting but it is the only thing I am left with".
Upon which I checked the leads and yep, I had been STUPID!!!

 

An update.

The horn is fine now.

The batter has been replaced. I had to get a second replacement battery because I dropped the first. Oops. But it starts now. It runs rough, but then it hasn't been ridden in a while, so I'm not worried. Well, I worry that when I take it out to ride out the gunk, everything will clear out and I'll go from 30 to 60 right in front of a cop. But not too worried.

The brake fluid reservoir screws continue to thwart me. I broke one screw extractor in the screw. It simply shattered while I was turning it. I may have to simply drill out the screws and get a tap-set to rethread the new holes. That said, does anyone know where to get metric taps?

Sigh. The high was in the mid seventies Monday. Sunday is going to be that nice again. I hope to get this thing fixed by then, but right now I have no breaks.

 

Snider, Craftsman makes an excellet set ($150, includes handles, taps and dies) but for cheap, once in a while repairs, the Harbor Freight set might be a better buy (under $25). Worst case, buy just the tap you need from one of the more reputable tool dealers or stores. Some automotive supply shops (NAPA comes to mind) carry a comprehensive line of tools, you should check it out. Sears does sell the individual taps and screw extractors as well, I think the drill extractors might be a good idea for you. Best of luck.

 

Thanks, Robert. I'll give NAPA a look.

 

Well, work has been busy so I haven't been able to work much on the bike, but I've looked at NAPA and they neither have nor can they order the right tap.

So decided to take the whole master cylinder/reservoir assembly off the bike and take that in to a shop. However, I discovered that I seem to have the wrong master cylinder assembly. What's on my bike is the assembly for the xj650 and I have an xj750j. The 650j has one caliper on the front while the 750j has two. So I'm pretty sure it's not an error on my title or that someone's been lieing to me.

Is this a problem? Am I going to have trouble stopping if I don't get the right assembly put on?

 

I've no experience with the later models so I'm afraid I'm going to defer to other more knowledgable sources. Post your VIN, some of our members are well versed in tracking down model numbers. Once you determine the exact model you have, the easier it will get to deal with parts issues. As far as Napa is concerned I am amazed, the shop locally can get anything! Your looking at a 4mm thread right? 1.00 pitch if I can trust my memory (and most of the time I can't). I'm puzzled as to why they are unable to accomplish this. Have you done any online shopping? I'm pretty sure you could find exactly what your looking for rather easily. Trouble would be in deciding who to purchase from. As far as I know, so long as the piston diameters are the same between the two different master cylinders, it should cause no problems. You mention that you have a dual disk setup on your machine, what information tells you that you have the wrong master cylinder? Get back to us with the details of your VIN and any other pertainate details and we'll beat this problem together. We have some great sleuths on the forum, your mystery will not last much longer my friend.

 

4mm by .7 pitch; I don't know why they can't except that we're a pretty small town and, uh, I dunno, it's just what the guy said looking through their catalogue.

It's a 1982 xj750j according to what the dealer said. VIN jya15r00xca018123--I did a little checking myself, this site http://www.autobaza.pl/ab/en/web/productaa0100 names it an xj750j, but won't tell the year. Analog X told me it was 1982, but couldn't manage the model. (Computers I can manage. I better or I'll get canned. Which is why I'm not a mechanic.)

As for the disparity, I'm going by the Chilton manual diagrams for diassembling the brake system. That shows dual disks front brakes on the 750j models and singles on the 650j; it also shows the brake lines coming out of the front of the cylinder on the 750j and out of the side on the 650j. My bike has dual disks, but the brake line comes out of the side of the cylinder.

 

Well I can tell you that an XJ750J is an 82 model because of the J. Given that you only have the J indicates that it is a Maxim model. As for the pictures in the Haynes manual, same thing. 650 side port, 750 middle port. Guess you've nailed it down. Are you experiencing any problems with the braking performance? If not, simply use a reverse twist drill bit to remove the offending screw and pop in a new one. Sears has a nifty toy to accomplish this task. Here is the link to their online store

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product. ... &ihtoken=1

Long link but worth it. Here is another nice toy.

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product. ... &ihtoken=1

I'm betting if you call up the Sears nearest you, they could tell you if they can get that tap. Another option is to take the offending master cylinder to the local machine shop and let them do it. I hope you are successful in what ever path you choose.