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Engine cranks, but no spark

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by WarDog12, Jan 17, 2007.

  1. WarDog12

    WarDog12 Member

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    My 82 XJ550 has just decided that it no longer wishes to produce a spark, after weeks of running like a clock.

    Going through the troubleshooting procedures, it looks like the safety relay cuts the current (or supplies it) to the TCI, but not the starter. If this relay has gone bad, that would explain why the engine will crank, but I get no spark. Does anyone happen to know if this is the case, or am I all backwards? I have noticed the last few times I tried to start it, I don't hear any relays click when I turn the key and kill switch to run.

    Friday when I don't have work or class, I plan to get out the multimeter to test my switches and relays, as I have already checked the spark plugs, wires, and coils. Or again am I going in the wrong direction?

    It's about 15 degrees and icy here in Michigan, so I have plenty of tinkering time before riding weather is here.
     
  2. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    A big "warm" welcome to you WarDog! Not too familiar with the 550 (I'm a 650/750 twidget myself) but we have several aboard that are. Help will be along shortly. My best guess is to make sure your fuses are sound, corrosion will, repeat will, get in the fuse box sooner rather than later and will introduce gremlins galore. As memory serves, you 550 folk have an ignition fuse as well but I can't be sure about your 550 specs. Hope this "sparks" some ideas. Best of luck.
     
  3. BlueMaxim

    BlueMaxim Active Member

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    The kickstand and clutch safety switches are known for sticking and causing this. Check them out.
     
  4. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    First: Welcome Neighbor! See a PM from me.

    On the 650 the sidestand relay prevents spark unless sidestand is up, or cluch is pulled in, or bike is in neutral. Removing the sidestand relay disables the protection - IE: bike will have spark regardless of the position of sidestand, clutch, or gearbox.

    The safety relay will prevent cranking unless bike is in neutral or clutch is pulled in. Since the bike cranks the neutral switch and clutch switch are probably not the issue.

    According to Yamaha, your sidestand relay is the same part # as on my 650, so I assume it works the same way. The diagram shows it in a different location - apparently under the rear of the seat (diagram is none too clear).

    I'd pull the relay. If you get spark then the problem is almost certainally a stuck relay.
     
  5. Captainkirk

    Captainkirk Member

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    I would guess it would be the sidestand switch, or possibly the relay. On my 550 the wires were rather clumsily routed and halfway worn through (under the front sprocket cover) and fortunately I found the problem while doing PM on the bike before it caused a problem. That would be the first thing I'd check. BTW, Welcome to the board! Glad to have another 550 jockey on board!
     
  6. Hvnbnd

    Hvnbnd Active Member

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    Sorry I dont know about 550's I ride a 700
    Still basic troubleshooting should be in order here.
    Since you know you dont have spark and your coils didn't suddenly gobad at the same time???!!! I'd start looking for switches and to see if you have power to the TCI.
    Winter time and there could very well be a frozen stand switch as others have suspected

    Good Luck
     
  7. WarDog12

    WarDog12 Member

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    I forgot to mention I checked fuses, plugs, wires, coils, and connections.

    The sidestand relay (if the wiring diagram has any relation to where stuff is) is under the seat, wedged between it and the rear fender. In the morning I plan to test all my switches and relays... maybe not the neutral switch, I hope I find the problem before I have to go there. I don't think I'll have to since that would not allow it to crank.

    Once I get this figured out, I have a few odds and ends to sort out (horn, speedo, tach, mirrors, and front brake light switch). But, I have all winter.

    Thanks for the help/advice.
     
  8. WarDog12

    WarDog12 Member

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    Sidestand relay was bad... removed said relay... symptoms persist.

    In a bit I'll take a closer look at the battery, it could be that the battery has suddenly given up the ghost.
     
  9. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Pulling the Relay is 50% of the temporary fix.

    Closing the circuit with a little "Jumper" you'll have to make-up will get you back in business.
     
  10. a340driver

    a340driver Member

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    I've seen on other sites that other's with the same problem solved it by cleaning and replacing the brushes in the starter motor. One chap says the draw on starter is so high that the ignition does not perform well.
    Worth a try
     
  11. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    Rick, gotta disagree with you here. On the XJ650J the sidestand relay grounds the signal to the TCI, preventing spark. Pulling the relay prevents the signal grounding, hence spark. I assume the XJ550J works the same way since it's the same relay.

    You aren't thinking of the saftey relay are you?
     
  12. Captainkirk

    Captainkirk Member

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    The ignition system on the 550 is notoriously weak and poor. That being said, with all four plugs pulled (poor man's compression release) you oughta be able to crank it over, worn starter brushes or not (with a charged battery, of course) and see the plugs sparking...ensuring you have a good ground to the plug body, of course (I recommend a jumper). If no spark, it's not weak coils or plug leads, but rather an electrical failure or grounded out ignition circuit. I'd vote for number two, having seen this myself. Find the sidestand switch Molex connector, disconnect it and insert a jumper, then try it.
     
  13. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know the 550 was different. My Bad.

    Most of the safety related circuits I deal with are 750 Max and 900.

    Disregard my comment on the 550. But, what I'd give for a 16X20 laminated, full-color and legended set of wiring diaagrams ... like the ones that they make for Corvette's ... for every Model XJ-Bike.
     
  14. WarDog12

    WarDog12 Member

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    Battery is at 12V... but it cannot hold a charge for more than a day or so, and when placed in the bike, the turn signals stay on constant. I remember seeing somewhere that the flasher circuit needs certain amount of current/voltage to engage.

    Once I get a metric hex wrench set, I can check the sidestand switch and pikcup coils...

    I hate electric bugs.
     
  15. Fongdingo

    Fongdingo Member

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    I just had a simler problem with the flashers not flashing, they just stayed on. In checking i found that a wire was not connected, i thought it was the relay and the batt. i got a new batt, cheap get one, then checked out all of the wires before i droped 50 bucks on the relay.
     
  16. Hvnbnd

    Hvnbnd Active Member

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    Real easy check for battery, is to yank it out and take it to Napa and have them put a load test on it to see if it is still ok.
    They'll be able to tell you if it's good or not, and usually for free.

    It'll be a lot faster if you charge it first.
     
  17. WarDog12

    WarDog12 Member

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    I'm going to do the load test tomorrow, but the battery is at least three years old. I bought the bike from a friend and it was in there when he bought it.

    I figure I have lots of time before I can ride again (snow and all), and checking out the starter, alternator, and pick up coils and such can't hurt. Those things rumor has it may start to act funky around 25000 miles, and since my odometer shows 24k and change (who knows when the speedo cable broke) it might be a good idea, I don't think preventative care was high on the priority list of the previous owners.

    I hope this is one of those simple battery problems. Did I mention I hate tracking down electric bugs?
     
  18. kevineleven

    kevineleven Member

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    i have a speedo cable from a 82 650 i'll sell you if it fits. pm me if yer interested.
     
  19. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Here's the results of a Load Test on a small, 12-Volt, Motorcycle battery,
    3 years old ...
    which has had considerable "Down-time" allowing the plates to age and sulfate:

    FAIL !!! <---- Blinking Red
    .....................................................

    Sears
    DieHard
    Juice-it-up right with the electrolyte. Slow charge it up to full strength.
    You'll be glad you did.
     
  20. Hvnbnd

    Hvnbnd Active Member

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    Here's a tip I learned on my Wing.
    I pull the battery, out when the weather starts freezing (below 10 deg F) at night and put it in my well house, there is a small ceramic heater in there that keeps it right at 50 deg Fall winter.
    I haven't bought a battery for that Wing in 6 yrs now.

    I sold the wing recently and now only have an XJ!!!!!?????!!!!.
    :!: :?: :?
     
  21. WarDog12

    WarDog12 Member

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    I am pretty much certain the battery will fail; just being thorough. I'll feel like a stooge if the battery was causing my headaches, but what can you do?
     
  22. Hvnbnd

    Hvnbnd Active Member

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    Poney up and buy a new one!!??!

    You could pull that battery out for the extreme cold, but you have to have a warm place to store it.

    Remember that batterys give off Hydrogen gas which has an explosive range of 15%-75%.
     
  23. WarDog12

    WarDog12 Member

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    In case anyone still cares....

    MiCarl and I (mostly him) got the bike running today. Dirty kill switch was the culprit.

    Thanks to all for their help.
     

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