ERR WHOOOPS. Still a problem.

Finally got my bike back yesterday after 6 months in a repair shop, lousy service from the workshop and fed ex who shipped parts over to me.
Ref a thread some time ago and the lost key, it was found and I will get a copy.
The repairs cost €672.00 but part of that was for a new silencer. However the original problem still exists and though the bike sounds very good and is very quick and responsive on a flat road or downhill uphill it dies. Speed drops to nothing and she stalls once stalled she wont start without a lot of coaxing.
Today there was a new twist. The bike refused to go up hill and stalled so I turned her off and waited a few minutes but when I turned the key to start the rev counter swung round to 7000 revs, this was before I had pressed the button to fire her up.
I'm now thinking there may be a problem with the coil or an electical fault somewhere.
Any ideas?
My wife had a good one but I pointed out to her that it would be physically impossible plus it would ruin the hang of my trousers.

faighaigh.

 

I know you've been waiting on that key, glad to hear he found it (twit should have kept better tabs on the bloody thing, ya think?). You paid a heap of money and got the bike back doing the same thing? I think you ought to send it to me so I can sit on it and clean out your wallet too. What did this dolt do for six months, plant flowers? I can't recall what all you did originally on the bike but it does indeed sound like you have an electrical fault, but I'm betting it isn't the coil circuit. I'd be hopping mad that your mechanic (if you can call him that) hasn't gotten the bike fixed. In this part of the world as I'm sure you know, we call it "getting ripped off". Tell your wife that you will ensure the bike takes the appropriate relationship with your derriere, under it, not in it. Hang in there Mick, your bike deserves your efforts.

 

I had a similar problem when I had a Suzuki 550. It turned out the PO had put on a used CDI box and was the wrong one. Took a while to find. You may want to take a look at the part numbers on it and cross it with thefactory part number.

 

Charged the battery overnight and stuck it back in this morning, she fired up first time. Took her outside the garage and rev'd her up a bit and at one point the throttle stuck briefly. Checked the cable and it was fine no snags etc so I am wondering if it's a slide sticking which could be the cause of the problem yes? Found that plugs 3 and 4 were pretty wet.

Have also found that the key is not the original yamaha key that came with the bike but it work everything fine and it may be easier to get copied.

Also found that there is only one cable going to the rear indicators but some I have just bought on ebay have two cables, how do I get around that. Sounds dumb but electrics are a complete mystery to me, though I can change a light bulb on a good day.

Faighaigh.

 

You should have two wire going to the back lights one for signal,or hot wire, and one for ground. There might be some grounding issues going on here. Looks like it is time to check out the harness for corrosion and wires that seem to go nowhere.
Are these hitachi Carbs or Mikuni carbs. Sounds like the slides aren't getting enough vacuum or draw to raise them up. Or may be just gummed up. I wonder if the shop you had it at rebuilt the carbs first thing and then let it sit for the rest on the time with fuel in them. If so the slides may be gummed up again.
Sounds like a great project. Pull up you sleves and get dirty with it. Time to take a look.
Maybe a trip back to that shop would be in order.

 

Thanks for the advice fella's.

I saw my bike in the workshop 4 or 5 weeks after it went in and the carbs were off so it's probable that they were left sitting for weeks with petrol in them. From their work sheet it looks as though they duplicated work I had already done but didn't find and cure the problem that had me stumped.

The trouble is the language, they speak no English and my Spanish doesn't run to technical stuff and I doubt they would be interested in my complaints but you never know. I'll probably strip the carbs down again and check them out.

Looking at the loom there seems to be several wires running off to nowhere but what they are I have no idea, everything seems to work as it should.

 

sounds like it is time for an xjcd and just do the work yourself. Hard to find an honest mechanic. I am one of the few I know. My expertise is in the semi truck field though. I am working on the motorcycle side of things right now. A lot of good info right here. All one has to do is ask. Post up what color wires go nowhere and I bet someone here can let you know where they go. Anyone???

 

Wire colors and where you find them.

I agree with the above string you do need to look into the XJ CD so you can fix it yourself.

Interesting experiment for you, does the problem seem to get better if when it starts to die and you add a little choke?
The choke is really an enrichment valve adds more fuel.

If that idea makes it worse maybe you should check to see if the enrichment valves are closing all the way and not sticking open!?

It is interesting that "uphill you have trouble", makes me wonder about float settings.

 

Had the carbs of and stripped down twice since I last posted on this thread and the only thing I found was number 4 had a slide that was a bit slow dropping. One other thing is the plugs which aren't as per the manual, she has NGKR BPR7ES and they are not the plugs she was wearing . More ideas and advice welcome.

Thought I'd get the old girl running before I started knocking my brains out with the electrics.

Faighaigh

 

I called NGK and was told the BPR7ES plugs that have been fitted in my bike are for a modern engine and could cause ignition problems, have ordered a set of the BP8ES the manual says it needs.

I have the bike ticking over now which is strange because I'm sure cylinders 3 & 4 are not firing, cold exhausts wet plugs and the bike sounds dog rough.

Does anyone know anything about PLADI silencers, been charged for a new one and I'm pretty certain it's second hand. Before I go shouting the odds at the workshop I want to know prices etc.

Faighaigh

 

Never even heard of them Faighaigh. Sorry.

 

I beleive the R in your plug number is for resistance, so you don't get noise in your radio, and going from a 8es to a 7es plug is the 7es is hotter. shouldn't make a difference, just burns cleaner if you burn some oil.

I'd make sure you have spark on 3 & 4, I don't think they share a coil though.

The only thing that should change going up hill is your fuel, that should have no affect on electrical, I'd check your float settings and make sure there right, Might be to low and your running out of gas.

well that's my two cents worth

 

Hi all.

The saga continues!

Found 2 of the plugs are knackered coils seem fine. Got a good spark on all 4 when I tried the good plugs, I ordered new BP8ES from the UK nor available here apparently.

Still have problems with the carbs, polished the slides yet again and they drop like bricks now untill I fit the caps when they slow down a lot.

Have fitted a couple of new floats and reset the levels which seems to have cured the problem of 3 and 4 flooding, but I am now getting sweet Fanny Adams into carb number 2. Have checked and double checked valve /seat / jets and flow from tank to carbs. Obviously something I have done or not done but what, any ideas?

Mick Faighaigh.

 

En ingles, por favor. Mind translating that into english for the rest of us?

<off to Google> <clicks on Wikipedia entry>

Ah. I see. So, you're not getting fuel or airflow into that carb?

 

Still have problems with the carbs, polished the slides yet again and they drop like bricks now untill I fit the caps when they slow down a lot.
. . . . . . . . . .

They slow-down a lot??? Do you have those upper Air Jets the right position ... or, did you rely on the Photo in the Book???

The HAYNES Manual has them reversed. I check to see if somebody got burned by the Manual.

What the heck!!!
Take a peek!

 

Yes. They slow down a lot. I'm seeing the same thing on mine... I figured the diaphragms had something to do with it. I double-checked the jets when I reinstalled mine, and made sure that they did NOT look like the book. Still, a double-check couldn't hurt.

 

Sweet Fanny Adams = naff all -zilch -nada -bugger all - nothing.

Rick. All the jets went back in the same places they came out of which was as in the Yamaha workshop manual, I think Haynes made a mistake re Hitachi carbs in their manuals but they didn't do one on the XJ700.

Sorry if not clear but been drowning my sorrows in Glen Morangie.

Mick Faghaigh.

 

Humor me and go ride up-hill with the Petcock in PRIME.

Then, fabricate a safe fuel supply and try it independent of the bikes fuel system.

And ... before you go runnin'-it uphill ... make double-sure that the hose from the Intake Manifold to the Petcock Vacuum Valve is "Vacuum Hose" ... and not some hose that will collapse upon itself under load.

 

Rick.

Tried going up the hill in prime a couple of weeks back but made no difference, I'll try your other suggestion when I get the carbs back on assuming the job I'm doing now is unsuccessful.

Mick.

 

Yeah, I kinda figured that out from the Wikipedia article. Apparently one can shorten that to "Sweet FA" which can then be translated to something a bit less.... family friendly.


Rick:

As promised, I double-checked the position of the air jets, and they are indeed mounted correctly. Large pilot jet towards the engine side, smaller main jet behind that. The plate that's apparently supposed to sit on top of the jets is MIA, however, and neither set of carbs that I possess have them. That shouldn't be an issue, right?

Still, with the caps on, the pistons drop slower than they do if the caps are off. Any other suggestions?

 

Some later years omitted the plate, nothing to worry about.

 

There are two jets on the engine side of the carbs. Right where they mount to the intakes. One on either side. Make sure those are clear as well. Not sure what they controll but I know they need to be clean. You should be able to remove the with a screwdriver. But be carefull. Does someone know what they are for.

 

The inlet air passages for both the Pilot Jet Suction and the air supply to the emulsion tube chamber are Jetted there.

Air drawn into the Pilot Jet Passage is initially metered by the Air Jet. Once the volume of air is drawn-in past the Air Jet ... it's drawn through narrowly drilled passages up to the Pilot Mixture Screw opening which regulates how large an orifice the air has to pass through as it's drawn into the combustion chamber on the Intake Stroke.

As the air compresses and rushes through the narrow passages ... it passes over a small drilled passage that connects directly to the Pilot Jet.

The speeding air, rushing to escape the drilled passage, through the Pilot Mixture Screw Opening, to relieve the vacuum created on the Intake Stroke, draws-up some atomized fuel mixed with it, from the connecting Pilot Jet Passage.

Just the right amount ... and the engine idles with a Purr like a Kitty-cat.
Tweaked-out (or ColorTuned) for optimum richness and the bike wants to run like a Fire Horse smelling smoke!

How'd I do?

 

sounds good to me. Your hired! Sounds like something to change out to larger at high altitude riding. now back to the matter at hand. Did those carbs get synced? Are you test riding it with the air box boots off? That little bit of restriction that the air filter gives you really does make quite a difference. Meaning they should be connected.

 

I'm inclined to agree about the air filter restriction Samsr. Rick, could you offer further enlightenment?

 

In the other post I recommended leaving-off the Air Filter to be able to falsely enrich the mixture with propane ... for Top-end fuel supply circuit testing.

The math ought to be a cinch ... if we could get that guy from NUMB3R'S to do the calculations.

The Total intake volume of the four individual cylinders divided by 4. The Cubic Feet per Minute of air which passes through the One airbox opening to atmosphere ... less the restriction of the filter -- (probably not much) -- and the return of Crankcase gasses -- (also not too much) ... would provide a Number of CFM@min needed for the engine.

We ought to be able to determine the size of a restriction plate needed to be fitted to individual Pods to deliver the CFM@min needed for stock jetting.

Or not ...