First Test Spin. New probs

Allrighty so I took my XJ700 out of the shed and brought her to the front to try and ride her up and down the drive. Just to get a feel of her. Accomplished. Very comfortable. I found my center on her. All very very cool.
But here's how that went
I started her by bypassing the starter relay. Half choke. It was cold this morning, below freezing at 4am, so it took a couple tries. Got her started. Let sit for 3 min. Lowered choke to almost nothing. Sat at 1000rpm. Nice, for being cold. No choke. 1100 rpm. Cool. Put on my helm. Sat on her. Tilted her upright. Found my balance. Held both clutch and front brake. Shifted to first. Let go of the brake. Slowly let out the clutch, the engine starts sounding like it wants to die. Clutch completely out. Dead. Stopped her cold in first gear. So I started her again and rode just a bit with my clutch held in. Up and back the driveway for like three min. Then came in to post. What gives?? That shouldnt happen I'm sure. My Mixture screws maybe? I Havent fine tuned them

 

Are you certain that all 4 cylinders are firing? It can sound smooth even if they aren't. Start the bike, let it run for 2 minutes and then (carefully) feel the amount of heat on each exhaust header. You might find a cold, dead cylinder.

You were running at low RPM's I presume. Rev the engine up to 3k RPM and hold it for 30 seconds. Check the headers again. If you had a cold pipe, did it get warm? That means that the main jet is providing fuel, but the pilot (idle) jet isn't.

If you have a dead cylinder, and it won't heat up no matter what, then it might be an electrical ignition problem. Also, make sure your plugs are clean and not fouled from previous attempts to run the engine.

Let us know what you find.

 

Good comment on the pipes sushi. Temp sensing the pipes is the easiste way to find a dead cylinder. The pipes will be hot by the time you get down to feel them after starting, so don't worry about warmup time. Don't try grabbing them, just hover your hands over the pipes. If you make contact with skin from the back of your hand or arm, you'll have an instate header hickey. I've got one on each arm from checking the points on my BMW (they're at the bottom of the front of the engine case, between the headers).

 

There is almsot no heat coming from the right side header pipes. I havent revved it to 3k yet. Should I go ahead and try that now?

 

Shes gettin a slight sticky Idle too. I was inside and could hear her going up in RPMS and came out and she was at 2k. I hit the idle sdjustment screw and pulled the throttle a bit. She got up to 2.5k with a slight pull on the throttle and stuck there for 3secs. Hmmmm..

 

I pulled the plugs on 3 and 4 and #3 had some oil on it. Not a lot. But enough to make the tip look wet. Yesterday when I started her for the first time I put a drop or two of oil in the spark plug holes to add some lube to the cylinders. So maybe two was a drop too much in #3. I'll try it again
-SLKid

 

Aaand nothin. The cylinders three and four dont wanna start. I'll worry about the Sticky Idle later. What should I look for and do now that I know what the problem is? Any tests I can conduct to see if I can get them to fire?

 

Try swapping your ignition coils, if #1 and 2 decide not to fire and #3 and 4 do, Id say it was a coil.....or something to do with the coil.

 

Coils are 1-3 and 2-4 - not the coils. Basics kid - fuel air spark .

Try swapping plugs around...

oops coil typo

 

Were the plugs in #3 and #4 dry? If so, then you're not getting any fuel to those cylinders. If they were wet, then you have fuel but no spark.

Try starting the bike and squirting starter fluid into those carbs. If the engine suddenly sounds more powerful, then you're providing those cylinders with "fuel" from the starting fluid.

If nothing changes, then get a spare spark plug to test with. Pull the wire for #3 and stick the "test" plug in it. Hold it NEAR but do not TOUCH the engine block. Do you get spark? Is it blue/white or orange/yellow? Repeat for #4 cylinder. Relay the results.

 

I had a bad coil on my bike. It was responsible for plugs 1 and 4. It would not fire at idle but when I got the bike up to speed, it worked fine. I would almost bet you have an electrical issue. Check for anything like bare wires touching metal or cracks in the plug wires themselves. Check your spark plug boots and make sure they are pressed fully into the plug lead.

 

Ok. I took the carbs off to tighten the fuel bowls and whatnot. I'll put it back on tomorrow and try swapping coils. Hopefully that works and its just a coil. I'd hate for it to be anything else electrical. I'm terrible at that stuff. Especially with no equipment on hand.
Sushi. Only number three had a little oil on it. Any when I took them out to check to see if they'd been fouled, i wiped them both off. Number four didnt seem to be wet at all. Pretty sure it wasnt. I didnt pull one and two to compare. So should I check my fuel jet in my carbs now that they're out and see if they are clogged from my cleansing or something? And the spare spark plug trick. The bike doesnt need to be running, just put in the ON position or something? Very curious to know. All very interesting stuff. Thanks a lot for the help guys!
-SLKid

 

Hi Slkid.
As bill said it's not the Coils. One coil fires cylinder 1 and 3 the other one fires 2 and 4.
To check for spark, pull the plug, put it back in the wire.
It is my experience you do have to have the threaded part touching the case, a fin will do.
Hold it with coated pliers, anything but your fingers.
Turn it over see if you get a spark.

I'm not trying to be a wise ass but, it sounds like you started it on a morning below 32 degrees let it idle for 3 minutes shut off the choke and tried to ride.<stall>
It also sounds like you tried to take off with out the engine ever reaching 3000 rpm.

XJ's are cold blooded by nature.
If it's below freezing, with a 3 minute warm, you would have to ride for awhile with the choke on before thinking about shutting it off.
When my ride is warm I almost hit 3 grand taking off, if cold a little more to get going.
What people are saying about lack of fuel is probably true cold engine with no choke, I bet it's not getting enough fuel.
The choke on these bikes is actually an "enrichment cuircit" so instead of choking off air you are dumping in fuel.
Sorry you had to pull the carbs again.

 

Oh no, pullin the carbs isnt such a big deal. Its not hard to do and now I know how to do it its easy to install again. Thirty min. Bada bing bada boom.
But Hound. I didnt actually "ride" her. I let her warm up, sat on her and let out the choke just a little. Very little, and my rpms dropped below 500. I let go even just a little more and she died. My right side cylinders 3 and 4 wont come on, no matter how long I let her Idle. I even did as sushi suggested and revved her to 3 and 4k for twenty to thirty second and cylinder 3 and 4 still wouldnt warm up. Checked all the headers. When I pulled the plugs, it appeared there was no fuel on them. When I pulled the carbs there was fuel on the boots leading to the cylinders. Think maybe I have a clogged jet and its not pushing hard enough into the cylinders or soemthing?
And I thought our bikes' Idle speed was supposed to be 1200. not 3000
-SLKid

 

1050 idle 3k is what he gets to to start off in first. Like I said you need to check basics - I would swap 1 and 2 plugs with 3 and 4 if it's plugs you will know right fast. If nothing changes check fuel is getting to 3 and 4. You could have a couple of fouled plugs - simple to check...

 

I've been working on tuning my X. Last night, I start it up and do the pipe test to see how it is exhausting. #3 was not warming at the same rate as 1,2,4. Hmmm... Start reving it and the heat starts pouring on for #3. Pull the plugs and sure enough #3 looks to be lean. I think #4 is just a very tad lean.

So, you might want to also check to see if it is running too lean.

 

Thanks Bill! Yeah I'll be sure to do that. They're brand new plugs though.. Hmm.. I've jsut got this wierd suspision that there is something blocking my fuel from gettin in. I dont know why.. But i cant shake it. Like there is a mouse nest or something in my cylinders.. or.. something. I dont know.
I'll check the plugs as soon as I get the carbs back on later today or tomorrow. I'll let you know as soon as i do.
Oops, and typo above. "I let the CLUTCH out a little."
-SLKid

 

Ok based on what symptons you're relaying, this is not electrical and definitely not a coil as Hound's response explains. It simply seems that you're not getting any fuel to those cylinders.

Did you squirt starting fluid into those carbs like I said? The starter fluid will bypass the jets and get into the combustion chamber via the air path. Get the engine running, and squirt starting fluid into #3 or #4. Squirt it for a good 15 seconds. If the engine sound changes or the individual header finally gets hot, it means the cylinder is running on starting fluid.

Regarding the spare spark plug test: the engine needs to be running, or you need to be cranking the starter for the spark to occur. Concentrate on the fuel check for now. We can come back to the spark test later.

Let us know what happens.

 

SLKid just a thought.... if you have spark, the cyl had some of that oil you mentioned and you were were running on 1&2 but not 3&4 did you get a chance to check your float levels? i think they are supposed to be set at 17.5mm, also i ran into several problems on mine with #4 it seems that #4 likes to give issues....(assuming nothing changes under WOT).... i think your going to have to set those floats and clean your fuel circut. i cleaned mine somthing like 5 times before i got wise to it. check every path in the enrichment circut... my carbs had been acid dipped, carb cleaner sprayed, hand cleaned, pipecleaner rammed, had compressed air 80psi, and looked ok each time till finally i got the trapped debris out of the upper fuel circut.

 

Sushi,
If the starting fluid works, (which, I have to go buy some, thats why I havent tried it yet) I know it'll tell me that my cylinders arent getting enough fuel. What do I do from there? What would be my next step. And where exactly do I squirt the fluid into the cylinders and the carbs while she's running??
-SLKid